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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:27 pm 
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:shock:

Thanks for the clarification Chogon! :D

You have both my full attention and support! Looking forward to seeing the future plans!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:43 pm 
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Thanks for the further clarification Chogon.

Islander wrote:
J'ffrey wrote:
As I recall at the end of MOUL Cyan Worlds encouraged us to band together with the 4 guilds so the community could get organized etc. Well they have done that and now we get slapped in the face for it saying, sorry none of this has our permission. Well I'm sorry I am done being patient.

Well, there's a massive difference between Cyan saying "form guilds, organise the community", and them saying "form guilds, organise the community, and while you're at it have a go at hacking our software - see what you can do".

Here here. Hack it, and distribute it online without our permission no less. You know they have to hope that one day they can make a profit from the game. This lack of respect for the creators of the game is pitiful. It is their intellectual and creative property and many people have put the heart and soul into it. You have to respect their will to at least manage it in the way they see fit. I want to play again as bad as anyone. I do have an ounce of patients though.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:58 pm 
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reveal it's future plans and intensions


Good, thank you, the sooner the better. Meantime I'm not wiping anything from any of my hard discs just in case.

I am keen to be back in the cavern with those I know, and new friends, and I think that new content will be required and Drizzle might be at least part of the route to that. I'm happy for Cyan to sort it all out up front, and I've a few Dollars saved here to fund whatever needs it.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:38 pm 
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mtn'man wrote:
Thanks for the further clarification Chogon.

Islander wrote:
J'ffrey wrote:
Well I'm sorry I am done being patient.

Well, there's a massive difference between Cyan saying "form guilds, organise the community", and them saying "form guilds, organise the community, and while you're at it have a go at hacking our software - see what you can do".

Here here. Hack it, and distribute it online without our permission no less. You know they have to hope that one day they can make a profit from the game. This lack of respect for the creators of the game is pitiful. It is their intellectual and creative property and many people have put the heart and soul into it. You have to respect their will to at least manage it in the way they see fit. I want to play again as bad as anyone. I do have an ounce of patience though.


Yes, this. Uru is not yours. It's Cyan's. You don't get to act like they've done something horrible for not releasing the code on your timeline.

Using Drizzle for personal, offline use, while officially 'not ok', is unlikely to get you a scolding. Just like using Reveal, or other tools that let you into the nuts and bolts of the games.

But if you start saying that Cyan says it's ok, or that you have the right to do what you want with Uru, and distribute it freely just because Cyan *isn't* doing something when and how you want it? That just stinks.

Makes me hope that "Fundamental Respect For Cyan's IP" becomes a requirement of being a Writer or Maintainer, and people who couldn't be bothered to care are given an invitation to the rest of the world.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:43 pm 
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^ Perfectly put, Eleri :wink:.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:18 am 
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Ah, an offical forum posting promising an offical update soon! I feel like Homer Simpson in front of a Hot Doughnuts sign that just blazed to life. Hummmm. Declicious glazed Uru town hall meeting. Drooollll. :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:27 am 
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Quote:
but the dreams are still alive.


OK :D
Thank you

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:50 am 
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Thank you very much Chogon. We will be very happy to hear news as it can be shared.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:57 am 
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"adjust"? gosh I hope they keep the open source, atleast in some limited edition.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 pm 
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Eleri wrote:
mtn'man wrote:
Thanks for the further clarification Chogon.

Islander wrote:
J'ffrey wrote:
Well I'm sorry I am done being patient.

Well, there's a massive difference between Cyan saying "form guilds, organise the community", and them saying "form guilds, organise the community, and while you're at it have a go at hacking our software - see what you can do".

Here here. Hack it, and distribute it online without our permission no less. You know they have to hope that one day they can make a profit from the game. This lack of respect for the creators of the game is pitiful. It is their intellectual and creative property and many people have put the heart and soul into it. You have to respect their will to at least manage it in the way they see fit. I want to play again as bad as anyone. I do have an ounce of patience though.


Yes, this. Uru is not yours. It's Cyan's. You don't get to act like they've done something horrible for not releasing the code on your timeline.

Using Drizzle for personal, offline use, while officially 'not ok', is unlikely to get you a scolding. Just like using Reveal, or other tools that let you into the nuts and bolts of the games.

But if you start saying that Cyan says it's ok, or that you have the right to do what you want with Uru, and distribute it freely just because Cyan *isn't* doing something when and how you want it? That just stinks.

Makes me hope that "Fundamental Respect For Cyan's IP" becomes a requirement of being a Writer or Maintainer, and people who couldn't be bothered to care are given an invitation to the rest of the world.




:lol: well said


Last edited by Mystdee on Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:42 pm 
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i did some looking and found these old post from Cyan i know they are old

http://www.uruobsession.com/forum/index ... 35&t=23287
Quote:
Dear Fan Community,

Over the last few years many of you have worked on modifying and manipulating Uru and Uru related products. By doing so you have raised many issues that Cyan now needs to look into. Whether the issue is fan created content to alcugs or your own personal endeavor these are not items we can decide on quickly.

The assumption made by many in the fan community is if Cyan doesn't say anything then they must be okay with it. Don't mistake our silence for approval. These issues need to be discussed in detail on our end to determine where they fall in the big picture.

We have never given anyone permission to hack our engine, make servers with unauthorized data; use our global data, etc.

Any fan created work will be addressed on a personal basis by our legal department. Please contact [email protected].

We have been continually amazed with the persistence you have shown and hope in the future we can work with you. We truly hope this period of planning will be sorted out soon. Unfortunately, the timeline for this is not entirely in Cyan’s control and we will try to update you whenever possible.

At this time I would refrain from releasing or modifying any data until stated from Cyan Worlds Inc. that it is all right to do so.

Thanks for your patience,

Ryan and the team at Cyan

http://www.uruobsession.com/forum/index ... 35&t=22514
Quote:
Hey all,

I just wanted to come here and comment on a few things on behalf of Cyan Worlds, Inc. But first off I wanted to say it’s amazing to see what you are doing. Keep trying new things and being creative.

With that said, I'd like to try to nip something in the bud.


Cyan continues to hold out hope for Uru. We hope you guys are all with us in that. The problem is that by using Uru intellectual property (including Age names, characters, textures, models, etc.) you kind of put us in a position where we have to be the bad guy. If we don't protect our copyrights and trademarks, we may have all kinds of issues down the road - both legally and story-wise.


So it would be great if you guys could keep your creative endeavors on the original side of things - i.e. make your ages from scratch using your own wonderful imaginations. That will allow us to maintain the continuity and copyrights for Uru, if we ever get a chance to.


Remember - we named it "Until Uru" for a reason. smile.gif


To give at least one specific example: these lists are not good choices for your Age names... http://www.drcsite.org/ages/ages.shtml , http://www.dpwr.net/archive.php?showcat=7


Hope you guys see this as encouraging rather than discouraging.


Thanks,

Ryan (Greydragon) Warzecha


As i recall form that time Cyan gave the ok to work on stuff but did not give the ok to release it.
there is a big differences between the ok to work on something and release it.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:07 pm 
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MercAngel wrote:
As i recall form that time Cyan gave the ok to work on stuff but did not give the ok to release it.
there is a big differences between the ok to work on something and release it.

There are two separate issues at work, which one may not take from the thread to this point. Cyan content is their Copyrighted material. If that is what MercAngel means by stuff, it’s an accurate comment. Fan created content is the Copyrighted material of the fan creating it. If MercAngel included that in ‘stuff’ then in regard to 'release' it is inaccurate as to what Cyan can control. Whether the fan-creators formally copyright their work or not, American and most European law vests a default copyright in the creator of a work.

If a fan uses Cyan textures, sounds, music, animation, scripts, computer code, game/character names and etc. from any of Cyan’s copyrighted works without permission, they are infringing on Cyan’s copyright. If a fan uses all original work, there is no infringement and the fan is free to do as they wish with their original work. They can even sell it for a profit, if they choose.

Cyan has no say in completely original fan created works.

Hacking the game engine, database, game settings, age scripts and other parts of the game is a technical violation of the EULA and the Digital Rights thing. No where have I seen Cyan ok'd that or gave any consent to hack the games. It is in private use somewhere that an overly restrictive EULA and copyright gets way grey. Add to this that it is possible to build a Drizzle thing without illegally hacking the original game code (much computer code is legally hacked using a Chinese Wall - Digital Rights tries to stop that). Add to that the nearly impossible task of enforcing the EULA when someone at home is working in private. Mix in the ‘fair use’ concept of copyright and we have a legal mess only an attorney could sort out.

Many fan age-writers licensed Cyan content for use in their creations. This was common on the way to MO:RE. When open source became a possibility the situation with the FACL’s was never addressed, AFAIK. More grey area.

I think Drizzle is in the middle of a grey area. I think in SOME ways it violates EULA and in others copyright. But, in other ways it is fine. Could Cyan go after the creator? Probably. But in the overall scheme of things considering where Cyan hopes to end up, its existence probably helps Cyan and certainly fans. So, it offers benefits and liabilities to Cyan and the fans. As long as the liabilities do not pass some threat level to Cyan’s rights, which only they know what’s comfortable, they do not have to push the issue and send cease and desist orders.

I think the rogue shard issue and recent use of Myst V in at least one has tipped things past Cyan’s comfort zone. Will Cyan issue a cease and desist? Time will tell. Reaching across the pond legally takes time. But, if they handle one problem they would likely address all known problems. Cyan/Rand are known to avoid going there until left without a choice. So, this …clarification… could be a warning before a nuclear strike or a plea to back off or… just an announcement to keep their position clear. Either way I don’t see Drizzle and private use as the problem so much as the semi-private rogue shards. I could be wrong.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:30 pm 
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No posts deserves as much attention as these, IMHO. Thank You Nalates, Chogon et al....

There is IP, Contracts, Product, Assets and Liabilities; Uru Fans are shielded from most of this complexity and consequences. It's got to be a daunting task to get it straight. And it's got to be a huge task merely to allow OS. And it takes an act of supreme courage and verve to attempt it. IMHO CyanWorlds can do no wrong.

But the discussion does make me wonder if things might become better simplified if there were, say, 2 different Eulas for the various parties, say Shards and Non-Shards. Dunno, but if Rogue Shards can be tamed and legitimized (and controlled) better in this manner, it might make sense. Of course, CyanWorlds may already be way ahead of all this quarterbacking, and cannot comment, also for good reason. And this Fan will understand that.

If I've learned correctly, I see Drizzle as a shell to bridge existing CyanWorlds product and Fan product. Whether it can continue in that manner, I do not know.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:09 pm 
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Lemmy see if I got this strait

in order for the drizzle and the offline KI to be "officially" approved, they will havta fit within specific guide lines set up by Cyan which means Cyan may hafta look at the whole thing and specify what is allowed and what is not allowed which again takes time and ...........well other stuff.


If I acutely got this right then the question (assuming Cyan is willing to or have the time to look at the stuff that has been added to Uru) Will the creators of all the add on's be willing to stay within specified guide lines set down by Cyan in exchange for the "Official additions to Uru" Seal Which I think would be kinda cool

Quote:
Uru The Expanding universe
Official Cyan approved additions to Uru CC, Created exclusive by the fans and sectioned by Cyan. New additions for your Dni, Bevin, and your Relto, and numerous new fan created ages to explore. Check out Uru The Expanding Universe created by Cyan, and see the ever expanding universe created by the Myst Community. Uru The Expanding Universe, Get your copy today.



Ya gotta admit it does have potential and who knows maybe one day we'll read something like this

Quote:
We began our adaptation without the rights,” says the creators of Drizzle and the offline KI, . “It was risky and unorthodox, but we knew we would prove ourselves to Cyan with a solid blueprint of our vision for the future of Uru

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Last edited by Karkadann on Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:29 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:13 pm 
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Doe anyone else see that waveform puzzle from the beginning of Myst IV when they Try to think about Copyright laws?

"Alright, greater, greater. A little more. To far back it down a bit. No the amplitude is off. A little more. Think you have it? No, that's not it. Try moving the slider."

Suddenly I have a headache. :x

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