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 Post subject: Bahro Linking
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:18 am 
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This thread is to discuss Bahro linking, and I have a few questions; should they have no answers, it will at least make an interesting discussion (I hope).

1. Can the Bahro link anywhere they wish; or do they have to visit an age first?

2. Can they link between Ages, or do they have to use tablets or books for that?

3. Can they link anywhere in an Age, or do they have to know where they're going (which would imply that they've travelled there the hard way first).

Thoughts, definite answers, etc?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:33 am 
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As best I've gathered over time..
1: Unknown. We can't even tell individual bahro apart.. can they communicate areas etc? Does Yeesha's quest have a purpose anymore? Are only the bahro we 'invite' to the cavern able to, or is there more? I suspect the latter, that they all can, but we have no proof either way as of yet.. mostly because we can't determine where they have or haven't been to. They may not appear to use linking books, but it's quite likely we've never seen them do it.

2: Bahro can apparently link at will. If they can link to another point in the same age (teleporting) or have to slingshot out to another age first (nexus-style) isn't clear. They could just be very fast at linking across ages, or could be slow linking in general (there's what, a delay of a second or two when they move a tablet in myst5, not that it's really canonical in details)

3: Unknown. See number 1.


Unfortunately, it's a lot of questions to just chuck on the pile of stuff we have no clue whatsoever about them. Everything we do know is based thoroughly on inference from a few very sparse cases, and on two games which may or may not have basis in the actual fictional D'ni universe. Not that that hasn't changed over time too (Trap books anyone?)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:33 am 
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I'm not sure how much of this is known. There was a group back during the GapTap era that was studying the Bahro extensively, but I don't know if they are around anymore.

I know they can link anywhere within an age, and between ages without linking books/stones. It seems like they don't have to have been there before to do so, although the video someone posted of a Bahro in his Relto suggests they must be able to see where they are linking to within an age.

I'd be interested to see if that bahro-group is still around, and what they have to say about this.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:48 am 
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adrianbrooks wrote:
I'm not sure how much of this is known. There was a group back during the GapTap era that was studying the Bahro extensively, but I don't know if they are around anymore.

I know they can link anywhere within an age, and between ages without linking books/stones. It seems like they don't have to have been there before to do so, although the video someone posted of a Bahro in his Relto suggests they must be able to see where they are linking to within an age.

I'd be interested to see if that bahro-group is still around, and what they have to say about this.


Well keep in mind like Gondar said, we might have just never seen them use tablets or books. I'm inclined to believe its tablets they use though. Although, the presence of tablets in other Ages would suggest that they used the linking books first to go to those Ages. I suspect that the tablets are used so that the Bahro can link from those Ages to out-of-the-way locations in the cavern (as most of the tablets do, they also provide one with a good vantage point from which s/he can see a lot; perhaps the Bahro use this for sight linking?).

That just begs the question of why there aren't tablets in the cavern linking to out-of-the-way locations in those Ages in turn. I'm guessing the tablets work like linking books. However, those tablets just might be hidden in places explorers have not yet gone to in the cavern. The Bahro seem to have access to areas that explorers do not.

If they could indeed link between ages at will, then the linking tablets would be pointless.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:33 am 
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Actually, taking into account the events of Myst V:

[spoiler]The bahro are able to link on their own, as evidenced by the fact that Esher uses what appears to be a bahro pelt to link around. He touches it, and disappears! I'll have to replay it, but I'm also fairly certain that you see the bahro disappear without a book or tablet present. Perhaps they created the tablets specifically for the Explorers to use?[/spoiler]

However, I'm not sure if that game is considered to be 100% canon, so take it as you will. :D

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:45 am 
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protoomega wrote:
Actually, taking into account the events of Myst V:

[spoiler]The bahro are able to link on their own, as evidenced by the fact that Esher uses what appears to be a bahro pelt to link around. He touches it, and disappears! I'll have to replay it, but I'm also fairly certain that you see the bahro disappear without a book or tablet present. Perhaps they created the tablets specifically for the Explorers to use?[/spoiler]

However, I'm not sure if that game is considered to be 100% canon, so take it as you will. :D


Well I meant between Ages, not between locations within an Age :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:39 pm 
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Mekeretrig wrote:
protoomega wrote:
Actually, taking into account the events of Myst V:

[spoiler]The bahro are able to link on their own, as evidenced by the fact that Esher uses what appears to be a bahro pelt to link around. He touches it, and disappears! I'll have to replay it, but I'm also fairly certain that you see the bahro disappear without a book or tablet present. Perhaps they created the tablets specifically for the Explorers to use?[/spoiler]

However, I'm not sure if that game is considered to be 100% canon, so take it as you will. :D


Well I meant between Ages, not between locations within an Age :wink:


The above statement is still correct. The Bahro are able to link at will, not only between ages, but within an age itself.

[spoiler]Esher, in Myst V used a bahro pelt to get around. He linked not only between places in an age, but to ages as well with it. He linked out of Direbo with it to wherever you went.[/spoiler]

Not sure if you by Tablets you are referring to the Slates seen in Myst V

[spoiler]Remember there was the tablet, and then there were the slates. The four slates released the tablet.[/spoiler]

Or if you're referring to the Bahro stones found in the cavern.

My guess is this: (THe Following is pure speculation)

The Bahro stones are creations of the Bahro. These were made to facilitate the ability to link within an age to another point in that age for Explorers. Until the Bahro created the stones they were the only creatures with that ability, and probably the only ones to do so naturally.

Then Yeesha came along and also provided us the means to link to an age within that age, but with the means of a book rather than a stone. She learned how to write this particular technique into linking books.

[spoiler]NOW. The Tablet, Slates, and Totems of the Bahro are a whole different thing not at all related to their ability to link. I believe that what happened is that at some point, either the D'ni or the Ronay enslaved the Bahro using the Tablet. The only way for a new person to release said Tablet and gain control over the Bahro is with the Slates. The Totems on the other hand, are a bit different. The Totems in essence trap a Bahro's soul, wherever all four are gathered. When we first found them they were in a non-descript cave above a star fissure. Once we brought them to Relto they trapped a bahro's soul in Relto. Then once they were brought back to a new cave, above the Cavern, the bahro were essentially freed into the cavern. Now, the Slates and Tablet are in essence the chains that bind the collective bahro as a whole. While the Totem's only use is to keep a single Bahro's power trapped in one place. [/spoiler]

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:08 pm 
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IIRC, it is hinted in a DRC note (rooftop) that the tablets started appearing after the restoration began (that they're hard to take down, and don't stay gone long). This would suggest that the tablets were placed there for the explorers after the bahro became aware of them in the city and elsewhere. It's a reasonable suggestion that Yeesha is responsible, in so far as she can communicate with the Bahro--some of the stones apparently exist so that you can complete Yeesha's journey without the DRC's approval.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:57 pm 
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Ahh okay, well that does make sense.

I guess what I should have been saying was Bahro stones. Sorry for the mix up.


So then the Bahro can...

1. Link at will between ages and locations within an age.

I'm still not entirely convinced of this. I'm going to have to go with what Gondar said and stick with the fact that we just haven't seen them use bahro stones or linking books, and that at the same time we can never be sure where exactly they're linking to. To say that they definitely can link between Ages without the assistance of a stone or book seems more like a supposition.

Thats a few questions more or less answered, thanks!

Now remains the question, can they link to Ages they've never been to before (assuming they can link to other Ages themselves), or to locations within an age they haven't yet explored?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:33 pm 
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Mekeretrig wrote:

"To say that they definitely can link between Ages without the assistance of a stone or book seems more like a supposition."

At the end of Myst V: End of Ages (when you're standing in Releeshahn), two Bahro appear, seize hold of Esher and link out with him, and there are no visible books or stones. That doesn't directly answer the question about whether they can link to places they've never been, but it does pretty definitively prove that they can link out of a location without any (obvious) tools.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:40 pm 
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There's more to it than that. Esher himself can link because he has a piece of bahro hide on his shoulder. There is a drawing of his disection on the floor near the cage. I seem to remember him telling you in Myst V that the bahro could link at will.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:05 pm 
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Rusty_Russell wrote:
There's more to it than that. Esher himself can link because he has a piece of bahro hide on his shoulder. There is a drawing of his disection on the floor near the cage. I seem to remember him telling you in Myst V that the bahro could link at will.

This discussion is the only chance my signature has of being funny, thank you!

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:12 pm 
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What all of this comes down to is all we know is bahro can link at will. How limited that is, we're not sure. It LOOKS like they can link at will (and someone like Yeesha who's 'studied' them and maybe has her own bit of bahro hide as a gift, or like Esher who studied and stole the hide)
They don't appear to use tablets, so it is likely at will. If they have to visit an age or not, if they can link to the same spot in an age or not, we don't know. As I noted with the former, we can't communicate yet and we can't find out if a given bahro has visited an age prior (brought along by another? Can they carry each other along, can they communicate the 'location' of an age well enough for another to follow?).

If they go between spots in an age directly, we don't know. It looks like they do, but remember that could mean they just know a good spot, and are using it to loop back to wherever.. link out and link back in another spot.. like how we use the nexus to get across the cavern.


All the details past this, we just don't know. We don't even know if they have a language. We're guessing they do but really we have no proof. As it stands, we're likely to never see such proof either unless Cyan's situation changes and they can start a plot of sorts.


Really, they are a very good example of an alien speices.. we have no clue of anything about them, and it's quite possible they're as afraid of us as we are of them, and will remain such until we can establish a dialogue.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:38 pm 
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judging by the events in mo:ul, the bahro don't fear us. not even one little bit. ask douglas sharper.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:12 pm 
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Firesign wrote:
judging by the events in mo:ul, the bahro don't fear us. not even one little bit. ask douglas sharper.


If they are anything like humans at all, they may be prone to attacking things they are afraid of. Also, we know that the D'ni kept the Bahro as slaves. That coupled with the fact that Humans look exactly like D'ni easily explains why an individual Bahro might feel strongly enough to attack one of us despite being afraid. Anger and Fear go hand in hand, after all.

Back to the original discussion, we know that Bahro can use linking books. The only requirement to use a linking book is that you (or any object for that matter) are made out of living--or previously living--tissue. For instance, you could link a flower, or slab of meat, if you wanted. That Bahro are living, so they can use any linking book or stone if they choose.

It is very possible that they do use linking books to get to new ages. It may be that once they've visited an age they are able to remember it, effectively bookmarking it for later, similar to how we use the journey cloths Yeesha placed around for us. Where this information is stored is unknown. Maybe it stored in their DNA somehow, which would explain how Esher and Yeesha are able to link by touching a piece of Bahro leather.

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