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 Post subject: Tokotah and Dakotah
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:39 am 
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I did big misunderstanding so far !! :shock:

As for the name of the rooftop with the office of DRC, is Dakotah Roof Top right ?
I thought that it was a name Tokotah Roof Top all the time.
Tokotah is the place name, and is Dakotah the name of the building ?

I am ashamed. :oops: :oops: :oops:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:15 am 
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It's Tokotah.

I don't think the name Dakotah is used anywhere in the game.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:58 pm 
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There's absolutely no need to be ashamed, Chiro, never ever ... just ask away ... :P

This game is so old and there have been so many incarnations and thus changes
from the beginning ... and I tell you all why I say this now and I have to admit that
in all those many years that I'm with you all now this never came to me too, the
Dakotah 'thingy' or 'misspelling?' ... 8)

I just googled this and have to say that this issue can be really irritating and for new
explorers in particular ... I gave 'dakotah tokotah ae'gura' to Google and was really
astounded that I got some references at all lol ...

Ok, what I found is an indication to its (Dakotah) origin in the dni.wikia and and the
Wikipedia, stating the following (scroll down to Tokotah Rooftop)
Quote:
Tokotah Rooftop
Used, along with the office below, by the DRC in their effort to restore the D'ni city. It is
sometimes called Dakotah, because the original in-game map located in Tokotah Alley
spelled the location as Dakotah.

Of course I've looked for that old map and found it on the Guild of Cartographer's website
and on some other sites ...

Erik, there's even a reference to that on our Great Tree forums posted by NSymon in January 2004,
explaining the way to the Hall of Kings ... :shock:
Quote:
There are various different ways of getting to the Hall of Kings, the two easiest ways to get there are
to either use the Palace Alcove Link in your Nexus which takes you directly outside the Hall. Or use
the link in your Nexus labelled 'Tokotah/Dakotah Alley', from that link go up the stairs, straight in
front you should see another large staircase leading upwards, that will take you directly to the Hall of Kings.


And another interesting quote from a Blog site 'The Age Linker's Guide to the D'ni Restoration'
from Sept 2006
Quote:
Also of note... the DRC is definitely getting set up to welcome the influx of new explorers that we'll see
once the restoration gets back up to full steam. There used to be a map of Ae'gura posted by the Tokotah
to help people get around the city. After the pullout, the map was taken down at some point... I know it was
there for at least a few months after, I saw it during my trips through the cavern alone. I know that it was taken
down sometime a little before the D'mala though.
Anyway.. it's back up again, and it's still got typos on it. The buildings that everyone knows as the Tokotah are
listed as "Dakotah" and "Dakotah II"... but it still gets the point across and will help the new people get around.


This is all very new and interesting to me too, Chiro, Erik and all, and I hope my investigations clear that
matter up now for anybody else encountering it and pondering the same ... :D

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:38 pm 
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Simple questions often lead to interesting answers. And, this one has given us a wonderful history lesson. :D
Thank you, Chiro, for asking the question. And, thank you, Janaba, for the great answer. :D

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:20 pm 
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Tai'lahr wrote:
Simple questions often lead to interesting answers. And, this one has given us a wonderful history lesson. :D
Thank you, Chiro, for asking the question. And, thank you, Janaba, for the great answer. :D


I agree totally! :D
Over time, I too have had many experiences where someone new to the game or even very experienced players has asked a question about "something" that has lead to a recollection of something forgotten or better yet, added to my knowledge of the game and the rich history of all things MYST.
Many thanks to Chiro for asking and much appreciation to Janaba for the history lesson. :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:30 pm 
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So how about Takotah vs Tokotah, and also volvogonda vs vogondola?
I always thought it was a spelling mistake, but you never know :D


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:06 pm 
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I thank for a splendid reply heartily. :D
janaba, really thank you very much. You are great.
So much historic splendid information! :shock:
You examined it so eagerly.
I was impressed very hard.

D'ni seems to have much interesting history that we do not yet know.
And my question became a target of the interest of all of you unexpectedly.
It is words of the encouragement of all of you.
I feel very glad that I was able to make friends with all of you here.

Thanks many for you.

Yours sincerely,
Chiro


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:44 pm 
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The boring, out-of-cavern answer here is that many of these spelling variations are often jokes on the part of the developers or accidents of history.

RAWA once explained that two situations could occur: One was where the developers were working on an age before it was officially named, so they'd give it a working name that described it, for example "Garrison". Later, when it came to officially naming it, it was easier to construct a D'ni name that was similar to the working name, so:
- garo - (gah-ro) - great
- arEu - (ah-ree-uh) - protection
- senaren - (sen-ah-ren) - structure
were put together to give Gahreesen. The same applied to The Great Zero which was later officially named as Re-zeero (The Origin).

However Takotah was the other case. It already had its official name, and Dakotah/Dakota was a play on the fact that the two words sounds similar. Jalak is another like this: Jalak is the official name of the age, while Jalak Dador is a joke (D'ya lock da door?).

I don't know about volvogonda vs vogondola but it seems likely to be the latter case, a play on the spelling to introduce a car manufacturer's name.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:56 pm 
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Quote:
while Jalak Dador is a joke (D'ya lock da door?).


I did not know this before! 0u0

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:11 pm 
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Thanks again to Chiro for the original posting in this thread as I might not have ever known these little pearls of info that Mac_Fife chose to share with us. :P

Mac_Fife wrote:
The boring, out-of-cavern answer here is that many of these spelling variations are often jokes on the part of the developers or accidents of history.

RAWA once explained that two situations could occur: One was where the developers were working on an age before it was officially named, so they'd give it a working name that described it, for example "Garrison". Later, when it came to officially naming it, it was easier to construct a D'ni name that was similar to the working name, so:
- garo - (gah-ro) - great
- arEu - (ah-ree-uh) - protection
- senaren - (sen-ah-ren) - structure
were put together to give Gahreesen.

So that explains why I see "Garrison" in the Nexus - never knew why. :?

Mac_Fife wrote:
Jalak is another like this: Jalak is the official name of the age, while Jalak Dador is a joke (D'ya lock da door?).

Now that's funny. :!: :!: :!: Never knew that either.
Might be old news to others in the know, but it's news to me and I find it interesting, even "this late in the game."
Thanks Mac. :D

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:08 pm 
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Mac_Fife wrote:
I don't know about volvogonda vs vogondola but it seems likely to be the latter case, a play on the spelling to introduce a car manufacturer's name.

Is the vogondola (a gondola for Vogons?) even named anywhere in-game? First time I heard that thing had a name was on this very forum...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:11 pm 
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You still see the word Dakotah in the files if you look into them but you really shouldn't see it anywhere when running the game. Also, I don't think "Takotah" is used anywhere at all except for players misspelling it (which I myself have done a lot), but the correct name is "Tokotah".


What is with "Jalak Dador"? I know of the age of Jalak. I don't know where "Dador" came from, it isn't really even part of the age's name.

Sometimes people will refer to the age of (but not the person of) Kadish as "Kadish Tolesa" but that makes more sense since that's the age's rarely used FULL name. You know it's the real full name because you can see it in the journal by Yeesha in Relto. I would guess it was invented to make the distinction of referring to the specific age, not just Kadish in general.

I do wonder what the Tolesa specifically means though. Actually, now I wonder about all the age names.

Eder refers to a rest age.
I think Gira is supposed to mean steam.
Kemo is the kind of fish in Eder Kemo.
Don't know about Delin/Tsogal though.

I heard "ahn" refers to water which can make sense for AHNonay, TeledAHN, and even NegilAHN. But not sure how that would fit for AHNoheek.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:40 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:03 pm 
The D'ni word for water is 'ahno'. Thus we have Ahnonay, meaning 'water root'. While 'ahn' does seem to be a legitimate word, no-one knows what it actually means.

With the Eders... The Eder part refers to the Age's identity as a Garden Age, or a Rest Age ('eder' means to sleep or rest). The seconds word is the Age name, and seems to be something related to the Age. Thus, we have Eder Gira ('gira' means steam), and Eder Kemo ('keemo' is the name of the fish). We don't know what 'delin' or 'tsogahl' mean.

'Tolesa' is likely a compound word, from 'to' and 'lesa', meaning Place of/for/to 'lesa'. Yes, there are a lot of words we don't know.

DLordofTime, D'ni Linguist.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:12 pm 
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Ehren wrote:
What is with "Jalak Dador"? I know of the age of Jalak. I don't know where "Dador" came from, it isn't really even part of the age's name.
I wondered about that myself. It seemed to emerge into usage sort of spontaneously and spread to the extent that quite a few people believed it to be the "proper" name and that Jalak was just a short form. From RAWA's remarks, it seems like "Jalak Dador" was circulating within Cyan, so I wouldn't put it past a ResEng during GameTap days to have slipped the "Jalak Dador" out during an in-cavern conversation as a bit of devilment.

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