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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:16 am 
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Trekluver wrote:
The least anyone could do is show them a little respect about it, even if it's not your favorite thing in the world.

In my experience, the positives have far outweighed the negatives. There has been plenty of gratitude and respect for all involved. And criticism is an opportunity to be introspective about how we're doing and what is important to others. Annabelle has consistently gone out of her way in posts to not force her opinions upon others but to explain her own. Shards and clients are all open sourced, she has the freedom she wants, and she appears satisfied. May I suggest just understanding that.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:52 am 
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Let me be quite clear here:

I don't want to have a separate shard!

Period!


I'm not frustrated in general :evil: I'm frustrated in particular about one guy here: korovev with his stupid post!

Unless he comes back here and say sorry and edit his post, I won't be happy.

We are not vinyl lovers!!!! We have a nice & decent way of enjoying our time online can you just get that point out and all the community leave us alone with OUR client on MOULa shard.

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Last edited by Annabelle on Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:04 am 
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JWPlatt wrote:
Trekluver wrote:
The least anyone could do is show them a little respect about it, even if it's not your favorite thing in the world.

In my experience, the positives have far outweighed the negatives. There has been plenty of gratitude and respect for all involved. And criticism is an opportunity to be introspective about how we're doing and what is important to others. Annabelle has consistently gone out of her way in posts to not force her opinions upon others but to explain her own. Shards and clients are all open sourced, she has the freedom she wants, and she appears satisfied. May I suggest just understanding that.


Voilà!

I diserve respect. I don't get frustrated a lot and usually I'm very calm & positive-thinking. Now Adam is on my back for no apparent reason... he think I'm against him or maybe his work. Well!?!? where he got that I dunno.

Yes I dislike the physics changes that's my right. I'm not forcing anyone to appreciate my way of playing so please don't force me in yours. All I want since the very beginning is a new built of the skydiving client & a new built of the marker editor client for MOULa.

I don't want that skydiving become an obscure thing in a remote server. Why not proposing the DMR shard then? For concerts to be held in a new & cryptic Cavern ?!??!

No sorry, the offer made by Adam is just non receivable and for now I'm mostly wondering what is happening, why that sudden change in attitude...all provoked by korovev's post?

Lyrositor promised the skydiving client on Monday

Fuzz happened on Tuesday

I came in and calmed the fuzz on Wednesday

Stupid comments were posted on Tuesday

Now, almost Friday, no no Annabelle no more skydiving client

Is there an episode I missed? :? :shock:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:49 am 
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AdamJohnso wrote:
We could say the same about the universe itself in that entropy finally wins out over us and everything ceases to exist. But we don't do that because the probability of that happening at the current time is quite low. We could also say that MOULa might disappear tomorrow, so there's no sense in relying on it, either. This is also an unlikely scenario, given that Cyan has reserved the server instances for quite some time. Bugs, on the other hand are meant to be fixed. Given that the game code now has maintainers, it is likely that they will indeed be fixed. This likelihood is increased exponentially when the system in question is consistently pointed out as something that needs to be upgraded/fixed by the people who are maintaining the game code. Therefore, it can be logically concluded that reliance on bugs that create the skydiving metagame is not necessarily a wise choice of action. I'm sorry if you feel that realism (and my method of communication) is "talking down" to people, because it's not. Believe it or not, I do sympathize. I am however wholly unimpressed with both the timing and manner in which this subject is being brought up.


I guess how likely something is isn't really my point, nor how "smart" it is to have gotten an investment in that something. Should people just give up on voicing what they think even though it's extremely unlikely they'll get it?

Yes, you could argue that they shouldn't have gotten into the glitch so much in the first place, but... whose interest in something stems from careful consideration of the factors that allows it to exist/continue to exist anyway?

Didn't the combo jump skydiving stuff start before Open Source and therefore before it seemed like there was much chance anything would be fixed?

Well, hopefully they can at least get a special client for the skydiving stuff at some point.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:11 pm 
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Wow.
...
Just wow.
...

I originally didn't post here because I don't believe I can offer much to this argument, and honestly I still don't think so now. I do have a Skydiver avatar and have done it for a while but I've not been in cavern for a long time, and I can't being to understand the time and effort that's been put into creating the updates that mend and hope to one day add new content to MOULa. That being said, I feel a need to express a sentiment not yet brought to light in the thread. But before I do, I also feel a need to calm - maybe even release - the pressure building here, both sides seem to be entrenched in their points of view with little open-mindedness.
So instead of after the post I'll openly advocate beforehand that everyone here is completely capable of ignoring this post. Don't feel the need to read anything that may make you unhappy.

[spoiler=If you believe you anger easily to an opinion that differs from your own, I encourage you not to click on this spoiler.]There is a very good reason why my post is in a spoiler. Because of the open nature of a forum people such as myself who do their best to maintain a level head express an opinion to an argument while trying to maintain level-mindedness, but people still offend when they read a post they see as inflammatory, despite any attempt to reserve people's right to believe as they like on the matter, which is usually at the bottom of the post. Because the right is reserved after the post the damage is still done.
That is the point of this spoiler; while the nature of a forum is to openly express what one feels, people do exist who tells one that what one feels is wrong, with no regard as to how they act in the process. This is an experiment in stabilizing the issues of the argument and the topic of the thread. Therefore I'll ask you one more time; if you can maintain an open mind and do not offend to any opinion one way or another open the next spoiler.

[spoiler=If your mind is closed on the matter, one way or another, please do not open this spoiler. There is no need to get upset over one person saying something that may not conform to your perception.]Having said that, if you chose to ignore the warnings, read the post and still get upset about it, YOU are officially at fault for choosing not to take any precautions and making yourself upset.

TOOO wrote:
...Cyan has its own vision for Myst Online.

That's something we need to remember here; we the players don't own MOULa, therefore we the players have a very limited say in what can and can't be in the game. The maintainers and programmers have the power to create, repair and update the game and Cyan has the power to push it through to the players. We can express our displeasure of something like what a lot of us are doing now, but Cyan is the major power in the content of its game.
When open source led to the grey hats and the team of programmers who now work on the updates for the game, it struck me as inevitable that skydiving was approaching its end for one very good reason; while the MOULa community have created and accepted its own past time of exploring the glitches and exploits to the player's own ends, Cyan and the programmers saw this as exactly what they were - glitches and exploits. Because of this they would eventually become fixed to make the game closer to what it's meant to be. MOULa is a game about problem-solving and logic, the ruins of an ancient past, a multiplayer online game where people can socialize and help each other in certain situations. With all due respect for the Skydivers, having been a novice myself for a few months a great deal of respect is held to those with the patience to discover what they have learnt, skydiving is the activity of discovering and exploiting certain clipping errors in three dimensional maps. Skydiving was never part of MOULa, it was and is part of the MOULa community and culture. I can understand why they are upset however, it has survived as long as it has because it provides an activity that is not directly connected to the game itself - because of the nature of the past time one can begin skydiving immediately and doing so provides endless activity in discovering and riding glitches across the game. As an institution skydiving has directly contributed to the entertainment and longevity of MOULa from their activities and discoveries. But all this doesn't change the fact that it's riding glitches, meaning that there are glitches that need fixing.
I'll miss the time I took learning the correct moves and jumps for the tricks I know and I regret not taking more time to carry on mastering more, but with the promise of new content and updates I knew the day would come when movement bugs would be worked on that would lead to a reduction in the abilities of skydiving. I'm not upset about it, I'll miss it a good deal but I won't be upset by it.[/spoiler][/spoiler]

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:46 pm 
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Annabelle wrote:
Lyrositor promised the skydiving client on Monday

About that... It wasn't actually a promise, rather a promise to try.

At the time, I thought the new update would be coming out in the following days. Now, I'll try to do my best to release the new client when the new update comes out, but since I don't know when that will be, I can't promise anything. I will be more-or-less going off the grid in a few weeks for a few months, during which I'll only be able to keep up with the news from time to time, I assume (at best). This should last for a few months, while I change countries. The Marker Editor will take an even longer time to release, as I have to take several things into account for it.

My point is, while I'll do the best I can, you can't depend on me for your physics. The Skydivers' build (and not "built") might have to be built by someone else.

If anyone wants to have a shot at it, the code is here; since it reverts a lot of changes, however, I'm not sure it will compile smoothly, which is why I anticipated difficulties.

EDIT: I also just read a message from rarified; it'll be at the very least a week before the Foundry is able to resume building my code, so even if the new build is released before that, it'll take some time to build it, test it and distribute it.

Ehren wrote:
Also, I assume you are talking about some of the shards? There is no reason to think the main MOULa shard is going to change away from PhysX.

I think the long-term (really, really long-term) plan is to bring OS X and Linux compatibility to MO:ULa one day, and for that to happen, PhysX will have to go.

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Last edited by Lyrositor on Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:00 pm 
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Okay, let's all flame chrissifniotis, now. :P

But, seriously folks, there appears to be a lot of miscommunication or at least post-skimming in this thread. One thing everyone needs to remember is that the discussion was started with hearsay: DaVinci reporting that people in the cavern were upset about possible changes coming with the new build. So...

Annabelle, please don't take these posts personally. I think everyone here is aware of your position and how hard you've worked to find solutions and compromises between what you want and what is inevitable, so they're not directed at you, personally. My post was in reply specifically to manloc's post.

Your efforts to build bridges in this community have not gone unnoticed. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:00 pm 
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You guys are not understanding...I'll put it in simple words maybe it will clear everything out :roll: :roll: :roll:

I am not against physics updates whatsover. Where have you picked this up? I dunno

I want an update to the skydiver client to be able to enjoy old physics on MOULa in June 2013. Do not come here selling me the idea that one day in a uncertain future, we will be moving, as a community, to bullet or some other cryptic physic engine. I'm talking about June 2013, this month, today, tomorrow, the day after. Don't talk about future for no reason.

Adam is proposing a skydiver shard. No sorry thanks Adam. Maybe if the above becomes a reality then and only then we will consider the proposal to keep physX engine and our stuff. For now, this is completely irrelevant. It's like saying to us..."we are respecting you guys (somehow cough cough...) could you please move on this playfield so you can be alone & don't disrupt others?" Why the skydivers, why not other groups? Why not creating specific shard for every activity then? The map-climbers shard, the leaners shard, the healers shard, the greeters shard, the magic shard, the "I don't know where I stand" shard, etc.

Cyan owns MOULa. Yeah.... :? And tomatoes are usually red, and peas are usually green. Thanks for letting me know that fact. You know that we are no brainers :roll: It doesn't bring something.

Unecessary hateful comments have been posted on this thread about a certain community, the skydivers, for no reason also. There are no other way around. Respect is something that can be earn only if the two sides keep their opinion to themselves.

Lord sheppards abunded on this thread where they were, in their comments, completely off the track because they have nothing to do with this reality or just cannot bring anything. When I'm saying my initial post was the most useful and it's still the most useful is the reality. DaVinci expressed a simple worry of players online. I'm coming in to calm the tenseful environment with my knowledge of the situation. Then some with no knowledge at all of the whole situation came in this thread and start commenting negatively on how we are stupids to like a activity that revolves on bugs.

In life, before commenting on someone else's actions, always ask yourself this: "Are his/her actions will have a negative effect on mine or they won't change anything?" If the answer is the latter, do not comment. Since 2010, I'm doing what I'm calling: the skydiving. Is this causing anyone an issue? N-O. I don't force anyone to follow me, don't comment on it, don't put your 2 cents where it's irrelevant.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:12 pm 
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Some latter posts were posts during my writing. And Tai sent me a PM as well.

So yeah basically, on my end the case is resolved. I'll try to apply what Tai told me privately. Thanks for the tip. :D

I know for once, that Christian Walther offered his help if you were not able to do it Lyrositor. We will see when the time comes.

Have a good day & think twice before posting flaming stuff. My next step will be to report any inflamatory comment right away & this thread will surely disappear when there are useful info spread across it nevertheless :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:38 pm 
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Annabelle wrote:
Why the skydivers, why not other groups?

Uhm... because they don't want their own client?

You can't expect everyone instantly tries to build an old client with a buggy physics for you... It isn't really easy to keep compatibility with this client. But if you want it so bad, try to compile it by yourself! You can get VS Express for free from the microsoft website and if the client as it is is compileable you only have to click "Compile" and wait a few minutes.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:43 pm 
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For Plasma it's actually a bit more complex then that as Plasma uses Cmake and a bunch of dependicies like PhyiscX that can not distributed with the client. I *might*(more lickly yes then no but I have to see how busy I am) be willing to compile Lyrositors skydiving client for you but I would not be willing too do any tweaks on the physics.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:26 pm 
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yep it is me the trouble maker. The AH that started this mess. I have big shoulders and heart... lay it on. :lol:

My post was about alerting the programmers and (dare I use the term) Skydivers and others about people being upset. Hoping (where I have learned NOW not to trust in hope and faith) that said people may calm the fears of others that people would suddenly abandon the game.

As for as hearsay/rumor, people practically screaming in my face in a conversation doesn't sound like hearsay/rumor to me,.....and..... I read that this build would affect certain things in the game on the forums. I defended the build, I defended the skydivers( I am one).

.shorah g'tahght gah kenenahgo riloy tahgtayr d'tsahn t'metto gah pahts Ae'gura

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:36 pm 
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Awww, I don't think you're an AH, DaVinci. Sorry about using the word, "hearsay," but I was simply trying to point out that those who were doing the screaming weren't here to read our points or argue their side. So, Annabelle was taking the flak. I commend you for doing your part to try to ease the fears of those in the cavern. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:00 pm 
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THE shard that need players is the MOULA one.
Too many other shards is MOULA shard death!

A testing shard: okay
A Writers shard: ... okay ...
An everything you want shard: ...... If you want, but only one shard (Deep Island?) ......
Other shards are useless and are equal to MOULA shard death!

For BUGS:
Kill bad bugs if you want, but let the nice bugs here!
The priority is not to kill bugs but no create NEW content.

A "good" Writer is not a "I rebuild the game without bugs", but a "I use open source content to create new content"...

Don't you understand the story of MOULA?
No restoration but reconstruction!

And please, if you really love this game, respect its communities!

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