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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:32 pm 
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Obduction Backer

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Speaking of enhanced /ignore functionality, I finished that about 2.5 years ago. However, I immediately thereafter started working a real job, so, err, yeah. That's why it's still unmerged and not on MOULa. Anyhow, when we move forward WRT building the MOULa client from the H-uru sources, I can look into getting that merged. There's not much sense in cherry-picking the functionality over (unless someone wants to pay Adam Johnson Contracting, LLC :D)

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:32 am 
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Best solution yet, enhanced /ignore functionality, and seems ready for testing in one of the shards.

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Last edited by Karkadann on Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:15 am 
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I don't feel particularly concerned about this griefer thing, but since we're weighing pros and cons of both solutions, might as well give my two cents.

While an ignore function could be helpful in some cases, it still seems like a weird solution to me. One way invisibility seems wrong and could lead to awkward situations. Two-ways invisibility seems better but somehow it doesn't feel right to me - after all, both persons are still visible to everyone else. Selectively altering the reality of who's there and who's not based on people's point of view seems like... Exaggerated, somehow.
Besides, hiding people from an harasser only means he'll focus on bothering someone else - you're not sending the guy a clear message.

No, I'm all in favor of the good old fashioned "power to the people" with a /kick command... It's more immediate than waiting for the player to be banned, doesn't require Cyan's intervention, and could be kept vote-based and democratic. And it's loud and clear - better than giving the griefer the feeling that there are just few people online and that he just has to wait for his next victim.
There is no need to make it permanent, though - two to four hours would be enough. Not all people are griefers, some are just stupid and need to be told the hard way. As for harassers, sure they can come back, but hey, they'll probably get kicked again within minutes.

I don't think it could be abused either, since it's temporary AND requires a group to kick someone. The only case where it wouldn't work would be with a group of "virtual thugs" whose favorite activity would be banning people every now and then (assuming /kick has a cooldown). This feels very surreal to me.


Anyway. Just my two cents, and mostly just to provide arguments in favor of the /kick command. Ignore can work as well, but I'm not really fond of the idea.
Either way, although most people online are fine, Internet is by definition a place where law doesn't exist and is not applicable. Don't expect problems to magically disappear just because you added an ignore or kick command. It's also up to the people to learn to deal with what cannot be avoided.

EDIT: oh, and in case someone doesn't receive Obduction news from Cyan... Yeah, they are still working full time on Obduction related things: porting the game to Mac, and getting physical rewards to backers. Should take another while. That explains why we're still not getting news from them.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:12 am 
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Sirius wrote:
Don't expect problems to magically disappear just because you added an ignore or kick command. It's also up to the people to learn to deal with what cannot be avoided.


THIS. It's the internet. You'll run into insensitive people no matter what you do, so one needs to develop a thicker skin. Sad, but true.

Sirius wrote:
Yeah, they are still working full time on Obduction related things: porting the game to Mac, and getting physical rewards to backers. Should take another while. That explains why we're still not getting news from them.


That's understandable, but I believe they could still spare about 15 minutes or so to throw us a bone and at least elaborate on what exactly it will take to get account creation back up so we can properly crowd-source a solution. It HAS been nearly a year since they shut it off and it's stifling community growth.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:54 pm 
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Sirius wrote:
No, I'm all in favor of the good old fashioned "power to the people" with a /kick command... It's more immediate than waiting for the player to be banned, doesn't require Cyan's intervention, and could be kept vote-based and democratic. And it's loud and clear

The problem is that harassed people are often hesitant if not ashamed to speak up, and griefers can be very good at picking loners; a vote-based /kick might not be of much use for them.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:26 am 
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Mac_Fife wrote:
So, the question, in my mind, is how creative can we be in trying to find ways that can "identify" a griefer at the point of account creation? Keep in mind that free email addresses are readily available as are IP anonymising methods so simply imposing bans on those are not effective.


The only thing comes to my mind, would be to require more identifying info, like requiring us to provide a Facebook or Yahoo account name, etc, which is verified when we register. Phony Facebook accounts seem a little easier to spot than 'disposable' multiple email accounts.

Maybe Cyan even goes so far as to charge a very **small** one-time fee for registration - a pittance for 'real people' which would add up for someone making multiple accounts--- Cyan could then keep up with things like PayPal account info, etc, as a way to further identify those who have already been banned or who keep making multiple accounts. Heck, you wouldn't necessarily need to charge an amount... just require some kind of account info like an active Paypal account, so new registrants can prove they are unique users.

The ONLY other idea I had besides the above... would be to allow certain fans who have been 'vetted' or are known in the community, to have mod privileges on a volunteer basis. Cyan wouldn't need to use cavcon money to get more moderation in Uru.

It just seems to me, even with its faults a 'kick' allows a democratic method of booting out griefers, without needing so much mod or admin attention. It allows us, to an extent, to "police ourselves".. and having volunteer mods could do the same.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:21 pm 
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HarveyMidnight wrote:
Maybe Cyan even goes so far as to charge a very **small** one-time fee for registration
Cyan won't do this. They are committed to a free experience for MOULa with voluntary donations. But there should be a "cost" to the user for creating new accounts. One such idea is using SMS to tie account registrations to cell phones. The griefer would need to buy another phone when their cell number gets banned.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:35 pm 
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Perhaps your first account for free and anything after that will cost you a small fee

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:13 pm 
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JWPlatt wrote:
Cyan won't do this. They are committed to a free experience for MOULa with voluntary donations.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:14 am 
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Karkadann wrote:
Perhaps your first account for free and anything after that will cost you a small fee


As tempting as that would be to keep griefers out, it would also put off any first-time fans wanting to give the game a try. The "totally free with donations" method isn't perfect, but it's better than mandatory fees, IMHO, particularly with no new content (yet).

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:49 am 
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Karkadann's suggestion makes it free for first time fans. Unsure how that would put them off.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:06 am 
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You still then have the question of how to identify repeat accounts. I'm going to throw my hat in for two factor identification as well. I think GW2 basically requires it now, so it's not an unheard of practice. There's always the good old "PM here on the forum" for an account if we don't have a device, then it'll be a game of checking IPs. I'm sure there's a low cost or possibly even free way to accomplish this. I wonder if Google Authenticator would be appropriate?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:23 am 
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I haven't seen anyone suggest invites from current players yet. I thought there used to be a, (possibly broken,) system for inviting new players to Uru from inside the game. I could be mis-remembering.

But, say currently existing players could invite their friends to join via email address, by typing "/invite [email protected]". The server could keep track of invited emails, and allow people to sign up for new accounts with those emails.

Only letting people sign up with emails on the list would be better, in my opinion, than not letting people sign up at all, and it would be an automated system, not requiring input from anyone at Cyan.

This could, potentially, be combined with some of the other ideas here.

Another one is: no one in this thread, that I saw, mentioned the idea of letting the owner(s) of an age /kick a user out of it? If it's a single person's private age, the /kick command could only work for them, if it was a neighborhood instance, it could only work for hood members, (or perhaps a number of hood members.) Public instances could still require Cyan to kick people out.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:26 am 
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Y'all, I tried to implement a /kick command at one point. I withdrew it after awhile because I determined there were too many security holes and ways to abuse it for it to be viable.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:39 am 
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AdamJohnso wrote:
Y'all, I tried to implement a /kick command at one point. I withdrew it after awhile because I determined there were too many security holes and ways to abuse it for it to be viable.


Not trying to be contrarian, and I hope it doesn't come across that way, but, what were the security holes?


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