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 Post subject: Ahnonay - Journey Cloths
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:38 pm 
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It is said that in Ahnonay, touching a Journey Cloth locks the Cloth to a Position in space and not to a location in a particular Sphere/World.
So using the Cloth page in your Relto book returns you to that Position in space rather than a location in a particular Sphere/World.
Little NitPick:
[spoiler]If true;
You are in Sphere #1/Water World in Position #1/Active and get rotated to Position #4.
You touch the Cloth to lock it to Position #4 and then go pull the lever to rotate Sphere #1/Water World back to Position #1/Active.
Since the Cloth is supposedly "locked" to Position #4, you being in Sphere #1/Water World in Position #1/Active,
should no longer be able to see the Cloth you had touched... WRONG

The Cloth is still with you in Sphere #1/Water World in Position #1/Active.
And, when you Relto out and you use the Cloth page in your Relto book to return, you appear in Sphere #4 in Position #4 and the Cloth is not there.
So; It seems more likely that it is the Cloth page in the book that is getting locked to a Position in space rather than the actual Cloth you touched.[/spoiler]

I know, maybe a minor point to some but I like things to be as accurate as possible. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:54 pm 
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When people say the Cloth is locked, they are referring to the link the cloth has made, not the actual cloth. Think this is an issue of word choice then anything else.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:20 pm 
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Correct: the cloths "belong" to Yeesha and/or the bahro. You have no more power to "lock" the cloth than you do to remove the bahro stones scattered everywhere.

The cloth does something to modify you: it marks the point in space that your book link will return you to. But you yourself can do nothing to modify the cloth.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:53 pm 
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Linking cloths do something to your linking books. I've never heard an IC explanation of what happens.

In general cloths do not move, so books always appear to link you to where the cloth is. But, if you move the cloth, the book's target location does not change, it still points to where the cloth was last touched. I think Ahnonay is the age where that is apparent and is a key to solving the puzzle.

[spoiler]If you want to see this in action look at the GoC's Ahnonay Map[/spoiler]

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:24 am 
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Touching a cloth, if anything, alters the destination for the cloth bookmark in your Ahnonay book in Relto. As mentioned before, the destination for the shell bookmark is a point in space which may or may not be where you last touched a shell cloth. The cloth you last touched will have moved if the spheres have rotated.

Picky note:[spoiler]When you touch the cloth in the pump room (as originally described), you are establishing a destination of "prime position minus 1". When sphere #1 (Watery Ahnonay) is rotated back to prime position, the bookmark destination becomes sphere #4. If the spheres are rotated further, the destination is whatever the prime sphere number minus 1. If prime is #3, then the destination is sphere #2.

For a sphere that is not in the primary position, the switch at the back of the pump room will rotate it into the primary position.[/spoiler]

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:33 am 
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There's another age where journey cloths behave in the similar way.

[spoiler]Minkata[/spoiler]

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:20 am 
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dtierce wrote:
As mentioned before, the destination for the shell bookmark is a point in space which may or may not be where you last touched a shell cloth.

I think you miss worded that...

If the cloth is at 'A' when touched, that is where the bookmark points. If the cloth moves to 'B' and you don't touch it, the book still points to 'A'... the last place the cloth was when touched.

TomVal, I don't remember cloths in Minkata... stones... I'm not sure one would expect them to work the same as cloths.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:12 pm 
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Keep in mind too that the "hand" cloths and "shell" cloths behave differently.

The hand cloths actually bring you back to the location of the actual cloth... i.e. in Gahreesen's rotating buildings.

The shell cloths, instead, bring a person back to the place where they last touched it. So, the use of the word "lock" was probably misleading... Touching a shell cloth "locks" the linking point "in space..." not the cloth itself.

I can't remember how we were originally supposed to figure this out... Heh heh.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:35 pm 
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Reverend Vader wrote:
Keep in mind too that the "hand" cloths and "shell" cloths behave differently.

The hand cloths actually bring you back to the location of the actual cloth... i.e. in Gahreesen's rotating buildings.

The shell cloths, instead, bring a person back to the place where they last touched it. So, the use of the word "lock" was probably misleading... Touching a shell cloth "locks" the linking point "in space..." not the cloth itself.

I can't remember how we were originally supposed to figure this out... Heh heh.

That's a great point, RV, I wasn't even thinking about Gahreensen and I certainly should have been. Personally I view this as a creative oversight that needs fast footwork to explain ("hand cloths different from shell cloths" doesn't seem very satisfying for me). But the Ahnonay puzzle is so brilliant that Cyan gets a pass from me. :) (I know they were really worried about what I thought.)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:40 pm 
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This all goes back to Yeesha (at the end of URU ABM) and To D'ni. You need to listen to what she says when she draws the new symbol when you summon her after you've returned the pillars.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:24 am 
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Nalates wrote:
dtierce wrote:
As mentioned before, the destination for the shell bookmark is a point in space which may or may not be where you last touched a shell cloth.

I think you miss worded that...

If the cloth is at 'A' when touched, that is where the bookmark points. If the cloth moves to 'B' and you don't touch it, the book still points to 'A'... the last place the cloth was when touched.

You are correct that I mis-worded my statement. I meant to say the bookmark linked to where the cloth was when it was last touched whether it is still located there or not.

Thanks for clarifying.
David Tierce

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:37 am 
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vidroth wrote:
Reverend Vader wrote:
Keep in mind too that the "hand" cloths and "shell" cloths behave differently.

The hand cloths actually bring you back to the location of the actual cloth... i.e. in Gahreesen's rotating buildings.

The shell cloths, instead, bring a person back to the place where they last touched it. So, the use of the word "lock" was probably misleading... Touching a shell cloth "locks" the linking point "in space..." not the cloth itself.

I can't remember how we were originally supposed to figure this out... Heh heh.

That's a great point, RV, I wasn't even thinking about Gahreensen and I certainly should have been. Personally I view this as a creative oversight that needs fast footwork to explain ("hand cloths different from shell cloths" doesn't seem very satisfying for me). But the Ahnonay puzzle is so brilliant that Cyan gets a pass from me. :) (I know they were really worried about what I thought.)


I hadn't really thought about it before, but now that I think about it, I don't know why Cyan didn't place the Gahreesen cloths on the fort axis where the point in space would remain constant (this would make sense from a logical perspective). /shrug No biggie for me. I just really enjoy the puzzle aspects of the game and can say that the cloth to point-in-space concept was inspired!

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:02 am 
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Good observation, Reverend Vader! I hadn't thought of that before.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:26 am 
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Latharion, Gahreseen is a good point.

The idea breaks down IC-wise. If the Ahnonay style lock to a physical location works... then why doesn't it create problems in Gahreseen?

What about planetary rotation? Orbital rotation? Whatever, the idea for solving Ahnonay works.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:04 pm 
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Same way linking books work, a built in mechanism that compensates for it? We don't know the details of how the cloths work, each individual one could in theory be designed to work differently by who ever created them, so we really can't say they all should act the same, or the same type of ones should either.

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