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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:42 am 
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When MOULagain started up in February 2010, I created avvie "Susa'n." Susa'n finished the game while belonging to her originally assigned DRC(####) Bevin. She later joined another bevin.

Months later, I created avvie "Skydiver Susa'n." SD Susa'n immediately left the DRC bevin, joined a new bevin and thereafter finished the game.

Susa'n's KI includes the age locations "D'ni-Ae'gura," "K'veer" and "Spyroom." When Susa'n links to the hood instance of K'veer and the Spyroom (using the third brown book on her Relto bookshelf), her KI and textchat show she's in "D'ni-Ae-gura" rather than "K'veer" and "Spyroom." But when she links to the public instance of K'veer (using the Nexus), her KI shows she's in "K'veer."

SD Susa'n's KI includes the age locations "D'ni-Ae'gura," "K'veer" and "Old Spy Room." When SD Susa'n links to the hood instance of K'veer and the Old Spy Room (using the third brown book on her Relto bookshelf), her KI and textchat show she's in "K'veer" and "Old Spy Room." And when she links to the public instance of K'veer (using the Nexus), her KI shows she's in "K'veer."

I'm curious why my two avvies' KI's are different. I seem to recall that Cyan created the public (Nexus-accessible) K'veer between the time I created the two avvies. However, that wouldn't explain "Spyroom"/"D'ni-Ae-gura" vs. "Old Spyroom"/"Old Spyroom." Consequently, I'm guessing the difference has to do with the bevin each avvie belonged to as she played the game.

What do you think? Have you noticed similar anomalies in your avvies' KI's?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:34 pm 
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Susa'n wrote:
What do you think? Have you noticed similar anomalies in your avvies' KI's?


I have, and it perplexes me as well. I'm glad you asked. I've been curious as to an explination for quite a while now.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:19 am 
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The answer is Yes, it has to do with what Bevin you are in.

What you see displayed on the KI, depends on how the instance of the area for the hood was first created. The instance is created by the first hood member to link to the area.

For example if someone in the hood creates K'veer going through the link in the Cleft, the Bevin's instance becomes "K'veer"

If someone creates the K'veer instance by first going through the brown book link (which can be done by having the link from a previous Bevin) the instance will be named "D'ni-Ae'gura"

Anytime someone creates an instance for K'veer, The Great Zero, Descent, or (apparently) the Spyroom by going through the brown book, it will be labeled as Ae'gura.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:49 am 
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that is just bloody rediculous... it's good to know, but it doesn't make any sense. i'm not doubting your answer (you'd know better than i would afaik) it's just that some of those area's *aren't* on ae'gura (if they are it could be more specific). why would the Ki (for all intents and purposes URU's game interface) give misleading and just plain incorrect information? i would know better myself, but it still kinda irritates me that my ki is wrong. i wonder if it is some manner of development oversight?

one of my avvies has always had two spyroom listings on his Ki. one is "Spyroom" other is "Old Spy Room" and i never knew how that happened?

also, the method of sharing decent somehow isn't working for me anymore. when ppl use invites to my decent they go to my decent but when i link using the book or the stone i go to a decent without them labeled "Ae'gura" go figure... ? :roll:

though, whenever i broadcast text chat out of these areas, people tell me that their ki is telling them i'm where i should be.

the Ki could apparently learn a thing or two from the OnStar lady :?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:02 am 
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If you want to go to your own Descent you have to use "Personal Links" in the Nexus

Also, I'm pretty sure that it is indeed an oversight that the brown book only wants to create the name D'ni-Ae'gura. Cyan only thought of people without the links creating these areas I guess...

Sharing the spyroom stone and getting linked there gives a "Spyroom" on the KI, though I don't know if there are other ways.


Last edited by Ehren on Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:03 am 
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Bahro stones cannot be shared by design. They do not take you to a personal instance of the location, they take you to a hood instance. If you're in the same neighborhood as someone who links to Descent then you will see them there. If you share the stone it will create a private instance of Descent that belongs to you and send the person there but because of the way the stones are programed it will always take you (the person linking through the stone without it having been shared) to the hood instance.
For stones that link to a hood instance of a potentially public area (such as the bahro stone in Eder Kemo) they will not create a private instance but rather link the person being shared the link to the public instance instead while you will again go to the hood instance. Meaning if you share the Eder Kemo bahro stone with someone they will be linked to the Tokotah rooftop in the public Ae'gura (a place that is not accessible by any other means)

Why the bahro stones even have a share icon is the real question.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:54 am 
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there is a listing for decent on the nexus? drat... :? i entertained that thought but somehow i wasn't sure. makes me wish i had actually checked it out.

so that's why sharing decent is possible by sharing the stone? it creates a personal instance seperate from the hood instance making it afaik the only normally hood instanced area to have a possible personal instance.

i've heard that the reason why stones can be shared is so that Cyan had a back door to get character's in past the city population limit (which means it's even a way for us to get in a maxed out city provided someone is willing to share a stone. they wouldn't be able to follow) i s'pose it might also be different to be in some of the out of reach areas of the public city though it may not provide any particular advantage (or even anything quite interesting either) though it's difficult and seldome utalized.

we all have points at which we say "i would have gone another way" when it comes to design aspects of uru. the instancing mechanics are rediculously convoluted. making the hood instances avaliable only to neighbors isn't appealing to me. nor is rly having instanced cities at all. but it doesn't matter because it's not that way nor do i or did i ever have any say in the matter. :? it seems as though it's so convoluted that even the programmers at Cyan couldn't anticipate forseeable issues with the code keeping track of it all.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:27 am 
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The hood instanced areas, if you think about it, are all based around parts of the city. Baron's City Office, Great Zero, Descent, Ae'gura etc. I believe these areas were intended to be hood instanced only temporarily until they could be integrated properly into a public instance that would eventually join them all together. Compare the overall size of MOULa to other MMOs of the era. Games like Everquest and Dark Age of Camelot, while not nearly as intricate and detailed as Uru, were vastly larger in overall playing space.
Uru in its current version is still technically considered a beta and therefore very unfinished not only in story but in design as well. Even during Gametap, the only time the game was ever officially "live" it was with a tiny development team that could never have even begun to scratch the surface on what it was planned to be originally.
It's my belief that much of the flaws present in the design were placeholders for gameplay mechanics and the like that would have eventually replaced the system we have now. Why else would they build a story around the development of the KIs and the "lattice" ?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:48 am 
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I would imagine the share symbol was left on the Bahro stones with the original intention of being able to share your hood instance with someone not in your hood. Like sharing your hood's city from the stone in Bevin, or sharing you hood's Descent (if this worked the one in the public city could be left on for that). However, I guess they just didn't get around to fixing it to work like that. That could be a "placeholder" you talk about maybe?

I could not imagine getting rid of hood instances altogether being a good idea though, it's just the sharing that needs to be more logical


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:24 am 
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Thanks for the confirmation/explanation of the KI anomalies, Ehren.

Main_Avvie wrote:
so that's why sharing decent is possible by sharing the stone? it creates a personal instance seperate from the hood instance making it afaik the only normally hood instanced area to have a possible personal instance.

If I were to share any (public or hood) Descent Bahro stone with you, and then link through the same stone, you'd go to "Susa'n's Descent" and I'd go to my hood's "Descent."

Abjab once showed me the same was true for Teledahn's Spyroom Bahro stone.

I think the same is true for Teledahn's Baron's City Office Bahro stone.

If I had the patience, I'd test and document all the results from all Bahro stone shares.

I love that Eder Gira Tokotah Rooftop Bahro stone share; it's fun to party on the public City rooftop, especially when you know how to climb the wall and spy on explorers below you. :D


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:51 am 
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D'Lanor has written a good overview of the mess that is linking in Uru: Instancing Explained Through Linking Rules.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:19 am 
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Thanks to all, and Susa'n for the Thread...its an interesting and fitting one .... and as best I know it was Susa'n who first exhaustively researched the Bahro Stone shares; whose purpose seems to allow an altruistic Avie to pack any number of other Avies into a 'Public' instance as a default (but with some exceptions to that too, it seems :shock: ); and very useful it is. In fact there is no other means of getting individuals or groups into those 'Public' places (which justifies the Bahro Stone share idea for me at least). It's the exceptions to that generalization which creates the logic headaches, perhaps. If no relevant Public place exists for the Stone, it seems to rename it after the sharer...but we've never tested simultaneous dual shares to discover if that area is common too...(Hmmm)... Perhaps it is "Public" and we just don't know it ? And do the Bevin switches follow the same sort of generalization ?

(Pauses for large glass of water and aspirin...) ... HenryMikel warned me not to read this thread.. (Gulp)... But I couldnt resist :roll:

Hopefully there will be a resurgence of the Group activities that Susa'n famously organized to figure some of it out; and no one has made a Marker Game yet on the subject, as best I know...It has possibilities. When someone has figured it all out and made one , please let me have a copy for distribution....I tried and gave up twice already... :(

Oh! and when the Forum has resolved this one, there is the Myst Mystery to be explained too (Avies in the same Myst can see same or different outside Myst colors at the same time, depending on how they got there.....I can't wait to follow that discussion...:) (Dare I mention this Susa'n?)

(Edit: Just saw Christian Walther's Post preceding me...I have homework to do now)

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:54 pm 
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Abjab wrote:
Oh! and when the Forum has resolved this one, there is the Myst Mystery to be explained too (Avies in the same Myst can see same or different outside Myst colors at the same time, depending on how they got there.....I can't wait to follow that discussion...:) (Dare I mention this Susa'n?)

This is because Myst has no .fni file and therefore retains whatever fog settings were set by the previous age you were in.

Try dropping any of these files into your dat folder for fun: Hazy Myst • Groggy Myst • Short-sighted Myst


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:41 pm 
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Also the outside scenery of the Baron City Office (Sharper's Office) is darker when you link through the Teledahn fish tank book, then when you link through the Relto's brown book. I think the reason is its fni file doesn't specify enough values to completely overwrite the previous age's settings.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:30 pm 
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unlike tokotah rooftop, or the palace balcony or rooftop, the baron's office is not a part of the ae'gura city environment.
outside the windows there is only a 2D backdrop.


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