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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:42 pm 
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Khreestrefah wrote:
What the text says literally (using one interpretation of the untranslated morphemes) is:

"This - planet - it was - I funded - in part - from the foundation - Osmorella."


I disagree with one detail. There's no implied "I" in the sentence. The subject of the sentence was set right off the bat as "this planet", so the verbs are related to it. Thus, the rule about verbs with no suffixes being first-person possessive case does not apply. It's just "This - planet - was it - funded - in part - from the foundation - Osmorella."

Otherwise, I think you've nailed it, and I'm adding the words and translation in my copy of the D'ni to English dictionary.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:48 pm 
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Khreestrefah wrote:
If dhopaz is one word, then it probably does not matter grammatically which of the two possible places one starts to read the inscription:

1) bcheghdhopaz = b'cheg h'dhopaz = e.g. "to balance alongside civilization"
vs.
2) hdhopazbcheg = h'dhopaz b'cheg = e.g. "alongside civilization to balance"

If this is two words, e.g. dho paz (which feels more likely than dhop az), then there could be more of a difference between two of the possible readings, if paz were a verb that can have a dependent infinitive phrase:

1) bcheghdhopaz = b'cheg h'dho paz = e.g. "to balance alongside how I strive"
vs.
2) hdhopazbcheg = h'dho paz b'cheg = e.g. "alongside how I strive to balance"


Where are you getting your interpretations of the words from? They aren't part of the known lexicon, are they? The only thing I've found at all is the h', and that's part of an undefined word from the D'ni crossword puzzle.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:15 am 
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He's assuming the inscription reads "Balanced systems stimulate civilisation", as Korov'ev suggested.

Khrees did say "literally". The implied "I" comes from reading the word kopazgo in isolation.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:57 am 
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Maybe h’ðopæz is a single word. Not very likely, but there is a h’rot in Crossword.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:27 am 
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Khreestrefah wrote:

If the verb pazgo means ‘to fund’ then perhaps paz might be a noun like ‘money’ or ‘wealth’, or a more basic verb like ‘prosper’ or ‘thrive’.


Well the primary D'ni monetary unit is Nure pronounced Nuh-ree, money would be nuretee.

If that helps.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:52 am 
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Tweek wrote:
Well the primary D'ni monetary unit is Nure pronounced Nuh-ree

Woah woah woah. We know their word for money is nurE?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:23 pm 
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Tweek wrote:
Well the primary D'ni monetary unit is Nure pronounced Nuh-ree, money would be nuretee.


That doesn't really parse. Our basic unit is the dollar, but "dollars" does not mean "money". The same applies in all the languages I know. In German, the currency before the Euro was "marks", but money is "geld". In French, it was Francs, but money is "argent". In Japanese, the currency is Yen, but money is "okane".

I'm more inclined to think that påz means money or currency, and Nurē is just the unit of currency.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:39 pm 
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I am simply reiterating the information that I have in my archives to help the translation effort. What you personally decide to make of that info is, well, up to you :)


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:37 pm 
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It is not unknown in surface languages for words for 'money' to be plural in form, at least etymologically. Swedish pengar 'money' is descended from Old Norse peningar the plural of peningr 'penny'. I think the Greek and Russian words for 'money' are also derived from older plural forms.

In D'ni we have two other words that have forms in -tee but collective singular meanings: bantee 'series' and re'dantee the word for the long tweezers used in playing gemedet.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:12 am 
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What else do you have in those archives, Tweek?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:06 am 
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In the story of Kedri there are multiple D'ni words that the translator (Nick White) renders as "money": one for earned money, one for inherited money, and possibly one covering both (unless the D'ni original was of the form A gah/roob B). My knowledge of Cosmic Osmo canon is limited, but I think this calls for an investigation into the source of Princess Osmorella's wealth. ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:30 pm 
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If she's a Princess, doesn't that imply inheritance?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:04 pm 
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It's a moot point. The Kedri story notes mention there are many words for money, but doesn't spell out any of them. So it doesn't matter how Osmorella got her cash: the answer leaves us right where we were to begin with.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:08 am 
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If we take Tweek’s explanation that “money would be nuretee” to be part of his archived information (and not just his own inference) then we have a word nuhreetee that can be translated ‘money’ but also is the plural of the word nuhree used for the “primary D’ni monetary unit.” We can illustrate how this would work if tentatively (for the sake of discussion) we translate nuhree using the colloquial English word ‘buck’ in its monetary sense. So:

tahgemah b’zoo ah erthnuhree = ‘give me a buck’
tahgemah b’zoo ah nuhreetee vaht = ‘give me five bucks’
tahgemah b’zoo ah nuhreetee tren = ‘give me a few bucks’ = ‘give me some money’.

Now if this word is one of the three terms for ‘money’ that Nick had trouble translating in the Story of Kedri (as pointed out by Talashar), it seems less likely to be “an inherited kind of money” and more likely “an earned kind of money.” A rich man paying a salary to his workers is not going to dip into his inherited capital if he can avoid it, and he will typically be paying in terms of standard D’ni monetary units, so it makes sense that nuhreetee could come to refer to wages or earnings.

On the other hand (as TOOO observed) since Osmorella is a princess her assets would be the “inherited kind of money”; and when she partially “funded” the planet by “a grant” from her foundation, this seems like a legalistic way of saying she transferred some of her inheritance over to the planet for its use. This suggests what the verb pæzgo means in D’ni terms is to transfer some of one’s inherited “money” to some person other than one’s familial heir(s). In that case it might also mean something like our verb ‘to bequeath’.

If a root pæz is connected with the idea of inheritance then perhaps dhopæz means something like ‘heritage’ or ‘legacy’.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:48 pm 
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Exact quote from my archives;

"Nure – The primary D’Ni monetary unit pronounced nuh-ree’; D’Ni plurals are formed by adding the suffix ‘tee’ to a noun."

"[...]pradnuretee (loosely: money stone) that functions in essence like a modern smart card."

There is a sentence or two that bridges the above sentence with the one about pradnuretee but it is irrelevant to the translation thus not included.


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