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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 7:16 pm 
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It would be wonderfull to have them in the cavern.
I respect what greeters do , Realy do. As long as they don't grow proud and begin throwing titles at me or other people.

Cheers Chad :)


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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 8:42 pm 
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I saw this topic today, so I am late in reading it all, but I would like to put my opinion in.

I have nothing against the Guild of Greeters. There are many excellent people over there. But, not everyone in the game can join the GOG or they would overwhelm the shard. The GOG greeters have done many fine things, and I wish them all the best.

My opinion, however, is that one group should not have a monopoly on being a Greeter in Live. It is no suprpise that most Greeters themselves say the same thing.

IF Cyan has an official force of Greeters, it should not be restricted to just members of, or Greeters on, the GOG Shard/Forum (Though most of the GOG people would make more than expert greeters).

Any Cyan Guild/Group/anything, cannot be limited to only members of a particular group, shard, party, nation, whatever. Each Shard and Forum has its own community, and not everyone fits in every shard / forum.

I for one do not fit at the GOG, but have no problem at the other shards I frequent. This is not a reflection on me or anyone at the GOG or its fine reputation, but not everyone fits in all communities.

I am a greeter wherever I am asked to help, and this is also true of many members of the GOG. I would, however, like to try being a Greeter in Live, even though I will never be a member of the GOG.

As to letting greeters have less price for their Game Tap accounts, I agree with many GOG and non-GOG people that in game recognition would be more appreciated.

Greeter of the Month is something the GOG uses to recognise their Greeters for their selfless work to help others. The picture of the person who earns the award is placed on the Imager in all hoods so all can see their efforts to help all are praised. This would be a great way for Cyan to recognise all people in the Live greeter force for their efforts.

But, being a Uru Live Greeter must be open to all, whether or not they come from the Guild of Greeters, or many excellent Greeters will be left out because for their own reasons they are not members of the Guild of Greeters Shard and Forum.

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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 9:07 pm 
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The GOG stopped Greeter of the Month quite a long while ago and went to Shard Member of the Month as there are many people who make contributions and should be recognized. This was always on the GOG shard only and I don't know if it would be something Cyan would be interested in continuing once Live returns.


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 10:21 am 
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I am a Greeter, and I am ready to get my job back in the new Urulive, wherever it's Cyan or the GoG that calls me back on duty again.

I won't ask for special price or any other kind of reward. Waiting for such thing is, to me, incompatible with the Greeter's way to be.

All I hope is to be ready to help newcomers to feel like at home in the cavern and help them in any way possible. That's how a Greeter is and that's what I'm ready to do again.

Shorah, and see you all soon.


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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 7:57 pm 
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Mejan - I respectfully disagree with your stance - or at least with the way you are framing your arguement. As GD and others have made clear, all greeting is appreciated. However, if Cyan is going to sanction official Greeting - in other words, a sort of offical ambassadorship that kicks in at an explorer's initial entry into the game - then by definition you cannot have the doors wide open. The Guild of Greeters was set up in collaboration with Cyan in order to provide new explorers with a place to go where they can recieve a warm welcome and have their most basic questions answered, as well as to provide ongoing support of explorers as they move throughout the world in deepening their journey. Being properly greeted into the game is a good way of assuring that new explorers' initial experience will be positive (unlike in many other online games) thus increasing the liklihood of converting a new explorer into a bona fide fan, thereby increasing the fan base, thereby increasing the liklihood that the life of LIVE will be a long one.

You are saying that anyone who wants to become a Greeter (capital G) should be made one. I disagree. Since this function is an important one, and there are so many ways in which a new player can be discouraged, it is vital that some sort of official process of selection be put in place. Of course, this process does not necessarily have to be through the Guild of Greeters. However, this Guild has been operational for over 2 years, was officially sanctioned by Cyan for this purpose, and, by the preponderance of reports, has done a great job thus far. Other than creating a NEW Guild, and reinventing the wheel (zero sum gain) or by having Cyan themselves handle the application process (waste of Cyan's time and energy, taking these away from the primary task of providing us with new content, etc.), the GoG represents the most efficient means of recruiting appropriate Greeters officially.

While no application process can be 100% successful 100% of the time, the Guild of Greeters has an application process that has proven quite successful over time. As well, there is a process for handling any complaints that may arise from time to time, seminars, peer guidance, and an official code of conduct. In short, there is process, behavioural guidance, and accountability. This would not be the case in the ad hoc situation you describe.

As noted, many have the qualities of good greetership without being a Greeter. Such qualities as: a sense of responsibility; a fairly deep understanding of the game, its backstory and mechanics; a time commitment; sensitivity to others' cultures, age differences etc.; and, a benignity of purpose and personality proven over time -- these can indeed exist in anyone, greeter or Greeter.

No one who has a preponderance of these qualities, particularly the last one, who wishes to become a Greeter would be denied membership and the decision to apply or not would be strictly up to them. But please admit that not everyone has the time, energy, personality or patience to be a good ambassador for the game. To say that some do and some don't have these qualities is not elitism, it is simply reality - it is simply common sense.

Cyan has hinted that there may be other official guilds as well, and surely there will be some criteria necessary for membership there as well. As much as I would love to create new ages and to become a member of the Guild of Writers, should one become official, at the moment I simply would not have the expertise necessary to contribute much of anything. As you yourself recognize, sometimes it is simply not a good fit.

For the record, I am a member of the Guild of Greeters, but the opinions expressed above are strictly mine and mine alone and do not represent in any way the official stance of the Guild of Greeters on this subject.

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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 9:45 pm 
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Yeah while I like to think of myself as a friendly sort of chap whos always willing to lend a hand to a new person I ain't no Greeter. Offical Greeters are handy they can give a highly valued service to the shard and by having the guild you create accountability. If I upset a new person or give misleading information the person may not remember my name, they may give me a slap on the wrists but thats it. But enforcing people to join th GoG you make the GoG accountable and give an obvious place for people to goto to learn, on top of that you have people who agree to a principle and you can adhere them to it.

I do like the idea of guilds because it creates accountability and structure, while to much structure is bad, making sure that people who Greet aren't rude and do X,Y,Z is a good idea.

I like the Greeter of the week(or was it month) idea to, now thats the kind of reward Greeters should get, it encourages them to work hard at being good Greeters, makes sure the community knows the sterling work they do, and at the same time the benifits aren't unfair either. Things Like a Greeter shirt or hat, these are simple things which can mean a lot to a person but won't make everyone resentful. Over time the idea of stylised nieghbourhoods comes to mind but that could be problamatic.

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 2:38 am 
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Nerf,

I was not trying to say that anyone could, or should, be an Official Greeter (OG). I was trying to say that the chance to try out for being an OG should not be limited to only one shard, forum, or group.

The reality of Until Uru is that each Shard, each Forum, is a small community, a microcosm of the gaming world. As such, not everyone who may have the abilities and desire to become an OG will fit into every community.

Human nature is that most people will fit in several communities, some people will fit in lots of communities, but no one will fit in all communities. We are each individuals, and thus where we fit and who we like to associate with varies with each of us.

If Cyan does decide to have "Official Greeters" I agree with you that they need to be trained, and/or tested, and/or undergo a mentoring program to weed out people that wont or cant prove their ability to handle the task.

What I do not believe is that only the GOG Shard and Forum have people that can prove their ability to be an Official Greeter.

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 4:47 am 
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Noone has ever said it should only be limited to just Gog forums or shard.

Heek Turner could set up there own CCR system and people in the cavern
for help who knows what is going to happen I don't
and prolly won't be here for live anyway so don't care what they do.

I't is in Cyans hands how they set up the official Guild system IC (story) and
OOC (help ect) and there will be lots of diff Guilds.
They have already posted this info to a few forums and in chat logs.


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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 6:12 pm 
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Human nature is that most people will fit in several communities, some people will fit in lots of communities, but no one will fit in all communities. We are each individuals, and thus where we fit and who we like to associate with varies with each of us.


While this is true, there is usually some reasoning behind where we do/dont associate. It could be as simple as not enought time to get around to everywhere (there are alot of forums) to a difference/agreement in opinion with those there, or even some other reason(s), whos to say really. Everyone has their own reasons why they go to where they do, and it isnt a requirement that you be an active member of every single community.

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If Cyan does decide to have "Official Greeters" I agree with you that they need to be trained, and/or tested, and/or undergo a mentoring program to weed out people that wont or cant prove their ability to handle the task.


This was already decided during Beta. GoG is the 'official' Greeters. We are not the only ones that can greet though, anyone can.

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What I do not believe is that only the GOG Shard and Forum have people that can prove their ability to be an Official Greeter.


The GoG shard was only used after the closing of Live for UU. During Prologue there were 3 shards that this could happen on. Right now, it is on D'mala. Whenever new Live happens, it will probably be on that shard. The GoG shard is in no way the only one people could 'prove their ability'.

Basically what it boils down to is, if you want to go greet, then go greet, no one is going to stop you. And we actually encourage others to do their own greeting, it is not our 'monopoly'. If you want to greet in an 'official' capacity, then join the GoG. We are easy to get along with and our requirements to join are not that hard to meet.


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 2:25 am 
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Thank you for the invitation, Kurtg1265. I might take you up on it some day. :D

Till then, I cant wait to enjoy Uru Live 2 when it is out :D

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 6:25 pm 
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The Guild of Greeters performs for free a function that in most online games is a paid job... Community Assistant or some such title. Personally I agree with the idea that anybody who performs this job on a schedule, undergoing training and meeting certain standards, is entitled to some form of compensation from the company that they are, in fact, working for. That wouldn't make them better than anybody else; that would just bring Uru Live's practices in line with the industry. However since there are lots of very nice people willing to continue doing the work for free, it seems unlikely that this will happen :)

From what I can recall, the GoG has had its share of internal politics and quarreling; that is I suppose why some posters in this thread who want to greet are reluctant to join. In this respect though it is just like any other human organization. Coming from a World of Warcraft raid guild I am no longer surprised at ANYTHING that happens when a group of gamers gets together; even though the WoW demographic is very different from that of the Myst/Uru fanbase, issues of access to power and leadership and credit for contributions haunt both kinds of guilds. You could replace the current GoG with another kind of structure for providing "official" greeters, but the new organization would inevitably eventually wind up with the same kinds of problems.

Ah well. Looking forward to seeing you all in the reborn Uru Live :)


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:26 am 
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I agree. In many (most?) volunteer organizations, unless you are very careful, the politics can get bad. I think that's because all you get rewarded for is power and influence. In a situation where you get paid - money, oddly enough, tends to mellow people out.

I'm not saying all volunteer organizations are like that, or even that Guild of Greeters is like that (I've never been a member) - but, unless you are careful, it's always a danger.

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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 4:18 am 
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Srikandi wrote:

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You could replace the current GoG with another kind of structure for providing "official" greeters, but the new organization would inevitably eventually wind up with the same kinds of problems.


Sri - you have said very succinctly what I was trying to say earlier - why reinvent the wheel when what you will end up with will be exactly like, well, a wheel. No better, and possibly worse, given that wheels today have evolved beyond wheels as they were originally conceived.

The GoG may have had its issues in the past, but I know that every other forum and segment of this community has had its problems too. Problems, as you point out, abound, both in RL and here in the Body-free Zone. We all love this game and this world, and we do our best to pass on that zeal and enthusiasm to new explorers - c'est tout.

Oh and Hello, and lovely to see you posting here. Perhaps we shall see more of you once again, if WoW will release its evil hold on you.

Squish!

nerf.

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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 2:16 am 
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I've never actually applied to be a Greeter. But I've tried to do that job anyhow. :) It's fun to explain it all and help newbies out. I do enjoy it. Well said Sri and mszv and Nerf. I can't add anything you've not already covered.


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2006 2:36 am 
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ToriaURU wrote:
I've never actually applied to be a Greeter. But I've tried to do that job anyhow. :) It's fun to explain it all and help newbies out. I do enjoy it. Well said Sri and mszv and Nerf. I can't add anything you've not already covered.


It's fun to help out others who need help. I'm not a Greeter either, but I still try to help out anyway. :)

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