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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:06 pm 
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Ok, RW. I'll see what I can do.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:48 pm 
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I haven't responded to this thread. But I think its unfair anyone should be told that this game is not for them. There is reasons why someone is a solo player . And its not always cause someone wants to play solo. People have many reasons for not being able to play in groups. Time constraints being the first.

Let's take myself for an example. In around a month or so my Boss will be opening a new store. I am getting promoted to manager of that store. My hours will jump sky high to over 40 a week. On top of that I am currently a full time college student. So you can see why that would have problems for me. The only free time I will have is on my days off and there is of course with school no chance of that.

Now should I be told to go away?! Its not my fault I can't play in groups. I wouldn't mind being in a group once and awhile. I have played on other MMO in groups and have no problems with doing it here. I just don't know when I would be able to.

Shoot cause of the ice storm that hit the area recently I won't even get a spring break. We already had it when the college decided not to have classses due to power outages for most of last week. So you see it could be for me scrounging bits of time here and there just to get on even for an hour.

Anyways I don't think people should be told to leave just cause this is an MMO and they want to play Solo. Most other MMO have that option. It just happens the higher level you get the harder it gets to do it all by yourself. But there should be no reason why it can't be done here. Sure people may miss out on the rewards from multiplayer ages but at least they are getting to play a game they love.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:55 pm 
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Thanks Raniass'i for expressing what I couldn't even think of at the time. My time constraints are *maybe* 30 minutes at a time, sometimes longer, but according to my experience so far, 30 minutes is not long enough for getting the puzzle solved usually (unless you happen in when it's suddenly solved) so I had to make my wife mad because I left the computer on as my avie waited as we tried to get other things around the house on.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:58 pm 
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RW. wrote:
Your statement implied a definitive knowledge provided by the developer that some ages were going to be with intent designed for only group solutions and others for individual approaches.

Uru was intended to be a multi-player game. As such, our initial Age designs included a few puzzles that used more than one person to solve. Most of the time, such as getting power working in Gahreesen, the puzzle could be solved by one person but would be much easier with two or more people. In a very few cases, though, at least two people were required.

For instance, the bucket in Teledahn originally had no delay when the lever was pulled. At least two people were required - one to get in the bucket, the other to send the bucket.

However, back in 2003, when Ubisoft decided that they wanted to release "Ages beyond Myst" as a single-player, stand-alone game, that puzzle had to be altered so it could be solved by one person.

Similarly, when Prologue shut down, there were Ages in the pipeline with a puzzle or two that required more than one person. Again, those had to be altered to be solvable by a single player to be released in the expansion packs.

So, yes... multi-player puzzles have always been planned in Uru, but keep getting changed to be released in formats where multiple people are unavailable.

Now that Live is getting a reprieve, multi-player puzzles have gotten a reprieve, too. Eder Delin contains the only puzzle currently in Uru Live that requires more than one person to solve.

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Clearly, I will have to evaluate as rollout continues how much content is geared to the group player and how much to the individual.

Our current intent is to design Uru Ages the way we've always designed Uru's Ages. A single player will be able to solve the vast majority of the puzzles alone. Some of the puzzles will be easier with others. Occasionally, a puzzle will be unsolveable alone. They are rare, but their number is intended to be greater than 0.

Hope that helps,

RAWA

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:11 pm 
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Thanks, RAWA!

And most of my concern stemmed from how looong it tended to be to get a group to solve the puzzle, even after we already knew the solution. It's nice to get some official word on future puzzle designs, though.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:17 pm 
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I kept my mouth out of this conversation for a while because I felt that I would express my opinion too loudly... but I think after reading most of this thread that I need to respond. Mind you, my opinion is mostly one sided, and is a bit cruel sounding, but I do think I have a reasonable explanation and evidence to support it.

To be told that "this game isn't for you" is cruel, it is sadly sometimes necessary. What needs to be done from the solo player's perspective is to look at the title of the game - "Myst Online: Uru Live". This is no ordinary Myst, this is Myst ONLINE. This means you get to play with many other people in the same environment and do all the things with people that you couldn't do in the standard Myst series.

Moving along with that, to NOT introduce multiplayer puzzles and awards would be walking the path of foolishness. Please note, I'm not saying that they need to be implimented, I'm saying that it's silly not to impliment them. Reason being, Cyan finally has license to create a multitude of puzzles and environments that they could not pull off before because the restriction of a single person in the environment. You can't have one person both stand on a button and pull a lever across the room - it's just not possible. So, to not expect multiplayer puzzles in a game that is obviously flaunting the fact that it's multiplayer is a rather silly assumption - they're going to be there whether the solo player likes it or not.

Second, to become extremely upset at the introduction of the first multiplayer puzzle is another extreme reaction that is not necessary. I would understand the reaction from the solo player if there was no solo aspect to the game. HOWEVER, Yeesha's journey can be completed as much as you want by yourself. You do not need any others to complete it... it's just you and you alone. The solo player has had their cake, and they have eaten it. Now the multiplayer people are getting their cake to compliment the solo cake.

Devil's advocate moment: "I'm angry because I'm a multiplayer person! I got Myst Online to play with others, and there's hardly a reason to play with anyone else because I can solve all the puzzles by myself! This is a waste and I demand that Cyan gives my style of play more puzzles, so we can cooperate!" One must admit, that is a valid arguement, as the solo player is certainly pushed more in this game than the multiplayer aspect.

Third, there is still a massive amount of content, when looked at from the perspective of all puzzles aren't solved yet, for the solo player to get through. They have all of Yeesha's journey and the Great Zero marker finding. The only puzzle that requires more than one person is this new age. That means around 95% of the game can be completed by a single person, which is a very very high completion rate.

To put this in comparison to another, more popular MMORPG, World of Warcraft offers you the ability to complete levels 1 through 60 by yourself, without ever setting foot into a multiplayer dungeon (I'm leaving Burning Crusade out of this arguement, obviously). Once you hit 60, you can go off and PvP to your heart's content, or do whatever else you wish to do.

At 60 though, they give you the option of raids, and throughout the game they give you the option of dungeon teams. This stuff is extra content that you NEED a group for. At level 60, there are 40 man raids. That's alot of people, and that's something that not everyone can do.

My point here is that the programmer knows this. It's very hard to get 8 people together for this multiplayer puzzle let alone a 40 man raid. But the content that's offered at the end of the journey is optional. Raid gear is amazing, but it's not going to drop all the time, and only 1% of the server population is going to possess some of these items at any given time. Eder Delin's content is a rock slab that floats in your Relto. Whoopie. The solo player misses out on a single reward, in comparison to all the other relto pages and benefits they can recieve.

You can play WoW without raid gear. You can play Myst without that single slab in your relto. It's optional content. If you, the solo player wish to play solo, then please expect this. However, all of the crucial information and awards are given in the solo player's campaign - just like WoW. Therefore, there is no real solid reason for the solo player to complain. They have what they need.

But, if the solo player wishes to go get the extra step's"special" reward, or that "special" raid gear, then they got to take the extra step themselves in work output and socially interact to earn their reward. Sure it takes more work, but that's the beauty of the item, now isn't it?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:52 pm 
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Thanks RAWA! That helped clear up what was worrying me. I had a fear of most of the puzzles becoming multi-player. This was even more worrying since the first new puzzle was multi-player, but I feel better now.

S_Brennan:
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Third, there is still a massive amount of content, when looked at from the perspective of all puzzles aren't solved yet, for the solo player to get through. They have all of Yeesha's journey and the Great Zero marker finding. The only puzzle that requires more than one person is this new age. That means around 95% of the game can be completed by a single person, which is a very very high completion rate.


The only problem with that is the long long wait factor. Those of us who've been waiting so long for this thing have played through Yeesha's journey numerous times. It doesn't feel like new content, if you know what I mean. I understand what you're saying though. New people to Uru are probably wondering what all the fussing is about. :D I had just played Uru twice when Uru Live beta started up on GameTap so I sort of flew right through it. In retrospect I probably should have taken my time. Oh well... :wink:

-Bonnie


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:25 am 
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RAWA, thank you for your response, it does indeed help. I hope somehow it will get placed in an area easily found and visible under a title of perhaps, “The single and group player aspects of URU Live. What the developer intends.”

I think it is as definitive an answer from a developer as is possible, who recognizes and values the players, the group players and the solo players.

It certainly is enough of an answer for me at this time. Hopefully it will be for others as well. Mostly those soloists, who have expressed concern as to whether or not there was, based on schedules, preferences and needs, anything in URU Live for them worth the expenditure.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:07 am 
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I don't normally respond to a lot of posts, but I think that everyone here feels very strongly about this game and the time that we spend there. Delin initially made me nervous, so I took a day and worried about it. Turned out I was worried about nothing. I had the most patient and wonderful group of people who took hours (and I mean hours) just to make sure I made it through! This game is the journey and the reasons we take it and I feel almost more importantly that sometimes it's about the people we take it with and the things we can learn about and from each other.
Okay enough, I'll go another few months now. :oops:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:17 am 
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bpgisme wrote:
Thanks RAWA! That helped clear up what was worrying me. I had a fear of most of the puzzles becoming multi-player. This was even more worrying since the first new puzzle was multi-player, but I feel better now.

S_Brennan:
Quote:
Third, there is still a massive amount of content, when looked at from the perspective of all puzzles aren't solved yet, for the solo player to get through. They have all of Yeesha's journey and the Great Zero marker finding. The only puzzle that requires more than one person is this new age. That means around 95% of the game can be completed by a single person, which is a very very high completion rate.


The only problem with that is the long long wait factor. Those of us who've been waiting so long for this thing have played through Yeesha's journey numerous times. It doesn't feel like new content, if you know what I mean. I understand what you're saying though. New people to Uru are probably wondering what all the fussing is about. :D I had just played Uru twice when Uru Live beta started up on GameTap so I sort of flew right through it. In retrospect I probably should have taken my time. Oh well... :wink:

-Bonnie


Yeah, that's why I added the whole "from the perspective of having zero puzzles solved". To clarify that just taking the game on a whole, a overwhelming amount of puzzles are solo capable. Like RAWA said, because they had to change them to be solo capable. :D

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:43 am 
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The deldin is not exactly as bad as you think. The puzzle in deldin currently seems to be annoying and it takes hours to complete, but that is not how it is supposed to work. The reason people usually only solve it after 20 or so tries is not because the puzzle is bad but it is because of a bug. Simple as that. At random points in time, cloths seem to fail to register with the door, and because of that, failures are common, and only after numerous tries, success is finally made. When this bug is fixed, the time frame for this puzzle being solved will move from at least an hour to 5-10 minutes. Many people will probably get it on their first try, and the puzzle will no longer be pain-staking. I believe a lot more people will begin to enjoy this puzzle then.

I, actually like the idea this puzzle quite a lot. The only thing that turns me away is this bug, but I still try to assist people with it sometimes. When the bug is fixed, you will see me doing this puzzle a lot more.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:47 am 
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ian1 wrote:
When this bug is fixed, the time frame for this puzzle being solved will move from at least an hour to 5-10 minutes.


Plus x hours trying to get enough people together to solve it - something I've been trying to do for several days now without success. In common with some others, I can't sit on the computer for hours on end waiting for people to turn up - I have other calls on my time which limit me to maybe 30 mins at a time. So for me it is down to pure chance if I ever get through by matbe accidentaly coming across a Delin with enough people in it to solve the door :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:36 pm 
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Try the Guild of Greeter's Eder Delin or Neighborhood if you're having trouble getting a group for this. There are frequent groups going through Eder Delin starting from that hood, and most of the greeters I've met have been happy to help with the puzzle.

(The Greeters really are a nice bunch! I'm more of a solo player too, and am a bit shy about asking people for help, but even I have been able to find a friend or two among them, as well as get through the puzzle in Delin.)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:01 pm 
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Hey guys and gals

I just had a bit of a Eureka moment and thought this thread might be the best place to ping the idea off some people.

Eder Delin was meant for Visitors.

[spoiler]
Visitors are supposed to be allowed the the city, and the hoods right?

Visitor Hood accesses

Garisson (barricaded)= get your ki but nothing else really
Delin = Have free access to a small age, with one complete "Journey Cloth" puzzle that can be worked.
Great Zero = gives you marker missions in the city
Nexus = gives access to the city, and hoods

With those areas a visitor could get a good feel for the game, and then decide if they wanted to pay for full access or not.

thoughts, comments, or am I just nuts?
[/spoiler]

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:56 pm 
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Finally made it - with only 3 people. 2 of us covering the cloths furthest apart and one ( ShellShock ) doing all the others as well as calling the sequence :shock:

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