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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:17 am 
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Pride Greed and a Lust for Material wealth, accumulating riches and power at the expense of others. There is definitely a lesson here. As they say their is always some fact hidden within every fictional story. I can not see this being the exception.

For better or for worse, everything happens for a reason, whether they are mistakes or not, and if we don't learn from our mistakes we are bound to repeat them. If we can not learn from our mistakes they then the one who can not learn is left to stand alone in ignorance.

Learn from the fool. He can not learn from his own mistakes, and will not progress beyond his ignorance. He is in a state of evolutionary stagnantation.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:59 pm 
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Sorry, but I still don't agree. And if that makes me the fool, then so be it.

Pride, greed and a lust for material wealth caused the fall of D'ni?

Anyone want to come up with a list of people in our world who should by now have fallen several times over?

Life does not arrange events to provide mottoes for samplers. God, or Fate, or cosmic justice or whatever you want to call it, does not topple cities and slaughter thousands to prove a point. There is no lesson of that sort here.

I reiterate--it was fear of the outsider, insecurity, spiteful rage and selfishness that actuated the individuals concerned. Pride had nothing to do with it, and it doesn't matter how often we go around the circle repeating it, it still won't be true. D'ni did not fall because the D'ni used the Art, or because they abused it, or even because they took it for granted, though they surely did all those things. D'ni fell because a man was teed off with his friend for marrying someone he didn't approve of, and another man didn't care who he hurt so long as he got his own back. One could even argue that it was the absence of pride, pride destroyed, that caused those two to do what they did. The rest of D'ni could have gone on, secure in their lives, for another ten thousand years, had it not been for them. As it was, they were punished for no reason, in a pointless display of infantile spite of which no sane person could have been proud. The prideful and the humble, the greedy and the generous, the young and the restless, the naked and the dead...er, sorry. What I mean to say is that the D'ni were all killed in stupidly disproportional retaliation for the actions of a few, no reckoning made, no list checked even once, let alone twice. To draw any kind of moral from that, to turn it into a slogan to write in one's copybook, is...well, imagine an analogous real-world event and try to draw that kind of moral from it.

It was not deserved. It was not just. There is no lesson here. Except "don't."


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:21 pm 
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[quote="Zander_the_Heretic"]
Life does not arrange events to provide mottoes for samplers. God, or Fate, or cosmic justice or whatever you want to call it, does not topple cities and slaughter thousands to prove a point. There is no lesson of that sort here.
[quote]

How can you be so sure? I'm really not trying to be argumentative here, but you seem to make such bold statements and I'm curious to learn how you could possibly know that.

I know not everyone will agree with me, but I believe there are morals to every story. In my opinion there are lessons to be learned in everything, and everything that is allowed to happen in my life is something I am to learn from.

It seems that in Myst, although it is a fictional world, there is prophesy, meaning, and purpose. Although I actually haven't finished the Book of Ti'anna yet, I've got the impression from various sources that pride had a huge part to play in the fall of the D'ni. This actually seems to be a huge part of Myst. You can call it fear or whatever you will, but Gehn was too proud to admit that the D'ni(as he knew them) were done for and that he couldn't write ages. I always thought the writers of these stories intended for the readers to think there were serious pride issues with the D'ni. I know this goes against modern psychology, in my opinion, a lot of modern psychology tries to make flawed people out to be victims.

Just coming from my personal worldview, I saw some lessons about the problem of pride in many of the Myst stories. But this is just my personal opinion.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:25 pm 
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D'ni fell because the author needed the plot thus...


PS! Being back in the Cavern I allways assume I can close a post by hitting return or enter :)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:44 pm 
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If something taken without giving, some day will be taken by itself.


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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 10:04 am 
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Dr. Joseph Belfour wrote:
How can you be so sure? I'm really not trying to be argumentative here, but you seem to make such bold statements and I'm curious to learn how you could possibly know that.


Fifty-five years in the world. Watching the greedy and the arrogant prosper while the honest and the humble unwittingly support them. Watching nations swagger in their pomp and go unchastened while those at the bottom of the heap cry out for help. We tell stories with morals precisely because the universe contains no justice and no mercy that we do not bring to it. There is no punishment for evil in this world that we do not mete out, and if we choose not to do it, then it goes unpunished. That's just ordinary observation of life.

How could anyone possibly assume that every D'ni who died was deserving of that fate? Does that mean that the ones who survived were judged to be pure of heart and worthy to live, rather than simply happening to be in a fortunate place at the right time?

It is tempting to see in every event the hand of God, or Yahvo, or whoever...but it's also an abdication of responsibility. If pride caused the fall of D'ni, then Veovis and A'Gaeris were simply unwitting tools of the justice of the Maker. No. They bear the responsibility, as we bear the responsibility for guiding our own conduct. Not by cutting out pride from our souls as one might cut off a limb in a frenzy of remorse, not by adopting some unnatural posture of self-abasement, of "Leastness" as Yeesha puts it, but by governing it moment to moment, day to day, year to year. Not by casting away power, eschewing agency, abandoning the Art as a temptation to pride, but by acting responsibly, Writing responsibly, treading lightly on the Ages we create.

I do not believe that the creators of this story in which we take part have so simplistic a moral view of the universe as to expect us to take this fable of the Fall at face value.


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