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 Post subject: Where that happend?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:12 pm 
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Hello!

I'm reading myst the book of ti'ana,and it says (hints,but VERY CLEARLY) that the desert where the cleft is,is in the middle east.Now,we already know that it was a mistake,and that it's really in new maxico.So...

Where was the new maxican "tadjinar?"

Just a bit weird to me.

My fake "history" :wink: :

"tadjinar" is actually a small town in new maxico (with a maxican name,you give it to me :wink: ).It has a very big market,one of the biggest ones if ot the biggest in the whole area.The people there are mostly maxican people,though many traders came from all over the world to this place.The richest man,as in the book,is amamjira- probebly the only arabic in a very,very wide area.He came to this town with his friends (after traveling also to England) when buissniss in the middle east didn't worked.He is the only one who succeded among is friends.They left to wonder the world,and he staye in the town,to become a very powerful man,who drive most of the market.

I'M JUST VERY BORED :lol:

So,any speculations?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:26 pm 
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Here's my In Cavern answer... I always thought that the authors purposefully changed the location in the novel because they were not ready to divulge the location of the cleft yet. They didn't want a bunch of explorers getting lost in New Mexico. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:16 pm 
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And my IC answer: You're right; they did change the setting to the Middle East to misdirect explorers. Tadjinar (with a Spanish name as The stranger said) was a real trading city. Amanjira was not an Arab, but probably a Spaniard, whose name wasn't really Amanjira; but he did exist.


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 Post subject: ti'ana
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:16 pm 
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The interesting thing is that when you look at real history--Ti'Ana has to be Spanish, there's now other way that it can work. Also, it makes sense because her father was looking for gold--er... kinda. And the Spanish were pretty much sure(at that time) that there was the city of Cibola. Keep in mind that Ti'Ana's father was a bit more--realistic than the people who were REALLY in New Mexico at the time.

Also, something to leave you with:

Gehn looks Spanish--doesn't he? :wink:

*Lontahv hurries away*



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:44 am 
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If they were Spanish, why did they speak English?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:35 am 
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Funny, but they don't speak english in the dutch version of the book of Atrus.

Do characters in english books always speak in their native language? I don't think so.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:48 am 
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RAWA said that Anna taught Atrus in English,which doesn't make much sense if her mother tongue is Spanish; at most, she would've taught him both languages, but with Spanish as primary.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:01 pm 
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Do they have camels in a desert in Spain? Is there a desert in Spain I ask myself, and anyone else who's listening.

Ti'Ana wasn't Ti'Ana on the surface, that only came when she dug a hole and buried herself in the desert.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:43 pm 
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It's possible to dream up a story in which an educated English or American geologist and his wife and daughter were doing field geology in New Mexico in the 1700s, but it is farfetched. The heyday of the "gentleman scientist explorer" was decades later. Given it was New Mexico, I've always felt the back story of Atrus' family is far more plausible if it took place at least half a century later than we've been told.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:29 pm 
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To be perfectly honest, Atrus + family may well have spoken Spanish. We already know that the games and the novels changed certain things for the purposes of story, as all games and novels do. It's likely that the original Stranger was Spanish or Mexican, given that he was in the area during that time.

The only thing we do know is that Yeesha speaks English, as she spoke to us in English. It's also possible Esher and Atrus speak English, since they spoke to Dr. Watson in Myst V, but for all I know Dr. Watson speaks fluent Spanish (and probably a number of other languages. Heck, they may have all been speaking D'ni.)

Yeesha speaking English is quite logical. Around the time Tomahna would have been abandoned the English would have been expanding in the east. Atrus may well have taught Yeesha English in anticipation of the British colonials, then the Americans, bordering (and later conquering) the region of the Cleft and Tomahna. That's my take.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:16 pm 
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Also note that Ti'ana's father came from Europe. That could mean that English was his native language. (It could also still mean that Spanish was his native language, but at least the possibility that Ti'ana spoke English is still a valid one)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:11 pm 
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Quote:
Funny, but they don't speak english in the dutch version of the book of Atrus.

They did speak English though.

Quote:
Do they have camels in a desert in Spain? Is there a desert in Spain I ask myself, and anyone else who's listening.

I don't think so, but the cleft was in New Mexico in any case. The camels were probably artistic license.

Quote:
Given it was New Mexico, I've always felt the back story of Atrus' family is far more plausible if it took place at least half a century later than we've been told.

It may be more plausible, but we should assume Cyan is telling the truth.

This is is all assuming Cyan is not lying, and that they won't retcon anything: Anna and Atrus definitely spoke English. Anna's father probably spoke Spanish too, but not as a first language. Atrus probably did not know Spanish because there would have been no reason to, but he may have. If Atrus only knew English and D'ni, the Stranger must have known English, because Atrus wrote his journals in English or D'ni, and the Stranger would not have known D'ni.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:07 am 
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Kerryth wrote:
The heyday of the "gentleman scientist explorer" was decades later.

I don't know if this description really fits the situation, though. Anna's father was more of a contractor/consultant, who could easily have been contacted because of his record of success in similar ventures elsewhere in the world.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:47 pm 
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BrettM wrote:
I don't know if this description really fits the situation, though. Anna's father was more of a contractor/consultant, who could easily have been contacted because of his record of success in similar ventures elsewhere in the world.


:shock: Easily contacted? I don't think so.

According to the timeline on the MYSTlore wiki, Anna was born in 1694 or 1695 and found D'ni in 1712. It's not like somebody could Google her dad and send him a quick email. There were barely Europeans in that part of the southwest in 1700. People were definitely looking for gold and silver, but they went about it rather differently. Contracting/consulting would not have existed in the form we know it. Geology as a science barely existed even a century later. There weren't a lot of similar ventures to have a record of success in, and what record there was would have been known to few during his lifetime.

On the other hand, by the mid 1800s, the world was crawling with naturalists inspired by pioneers like Buckland, Lyell and Darwin. They were explorers after our own hearts, and some of them were intrepid Victorian Englishwomen, like my personal heroine Isabella Bird.

The the Book of Ti'ana already uses quite a lot of artistic license, so it's plausible that Anna and her father were not exactly as depicted. They sure read like they belong about a century later.

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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 3:30 am 
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anarta72 wrote:
Do they have camels in a desert in Spain? Is there a desert in Spain I ask myself, and anyone else who's listening.

It would probably have been within Spanish means to obtain camels for use in the deserts of the New World (they had some small colonies in Africa, and they could have purchased them from other nations). I can't find any evidence that they did use camels, though, and I don't really think the camels are that essential to the story. The IC story is really just the general events, anything specific in the novels should be taken with a grain of salt.

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