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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:24 pm 
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All the evidence surrounding Kadish inside his vault indicates that it is his skeleton on the floor.

In the supposed 'future' vault, Kadish is gone and Yeesha claims to have saved his life.

Yet the doors to the vault are different. In the first vault, the doors slide into the walls but in the future vault, they open outwards like doors usually do. Also, the Bahro journey-door is gone too, along with the ledge.

Has Yeesha actually just written an Age that looks like Kadish Tolesa and linked us there?
If the future vault is really in the future, why don't I link to a future Relto when I link out?

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:26 pm 
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it's an alternate vault not a future one.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:28 pm 
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Tweek wrote:
it's an alternate vault not a future one.


Uh-huh, my point exactly! Therefore, Yeesha is cheating by claiming to have spared his life.

This makes her no better than Kadish!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:33 pm 
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In her defence, she never says "I saved the original Kadish's life"; she might have just saved the alternate Kadish, or someone else entirely.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:44 pm 
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Tweek wrote:
it's an alternate vault not a future one.

Message to the New Age Creators.

Maybe the words "alternate universe" is the magic key you have been looking for
if "canon laws" get in your way. :wink:

All you have to do is to give an "easy to see" warning to the visitors
to prepare them for such a link.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:57 pm 
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I think Yeesha used a past version of Kadish Tolesa for the alternate, present vault. Sounds complicated but I think the vault as we see it in the alternate vault is the vault when it had just been built. The doors look less secure in the alternate vault and the vault is almost empty. (I think when Kadish's wealth grew, he designed a better security system for the doors and made the vault as we see it in the original instance)
I think Yeesha used that past version to deliver a certain message in the present... She 'duplicated' the past vault to do something with it in the present.

Anyway, that alternate vault is a huge mystery. As huge a mystery as the death of Calam, and perhaps that's not coincidence... I would really like to get another puzzle piece for these mysteries. It looked like we would be getting some in MOUL, considering the scraps of paper in the vault were slightly different in MOUL than they were in Uru:CC.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:37 pm 
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*SPOILER*



Both Vault versions are in the same age, according to the KI in MOUL. One person linked to the alt vault, while the other person stayed in the main vault. Both could Ki chat normally due to the fact that the first person reapeared in the Ki list when arriveing in the Alt Vault. So, in essence, neither versions are "Past" or "Future" versions, both are "Present" as they exist in the same point in time and space. This explanes why you would link to the same relto time from the "Future" or "Past" Vaults, as neither are in different points of time.



*/SPOILER*

EDIT: I think that's right...It may be wrong though, as it's something I've just heard at one point.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:24 pm 
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That is just a game mechanism to reduce the time it takes between linking from A to B (like the Maintainers Nexus)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:11 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 1:12 am 
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Yeesha on a Harley... There's a mental picture.

They've done this one on Stargate. AND Star Trek. This is not that mysterious, if you think about it. The reality is that the "original" or "present" Vault (whatever you want to call it) does, in fact, contain the remains of a dead D'ni, with a high likelihood of it being Kadish. Yeesha's 'time travel' isn't really truly time travel-- she went to an alternate universe and somehow saved an alternate D'ni Kadish. As we see from the doors, this "instance" or whatever you want to call it is not truly identical to the original vault, and therefore a different vault. That is the key clue. "Where" it is in time or space is irrelevant, because then it's not time travel. It's altering events in another instance of the same place.

This means that, somewhere out there in the cosmic Great Tree of Possibilities, Kadish Tolesa is alive and doing well. Of course this also means that somewhere out there in the cosmic Great Tree is also a Kadish that is just as dead as the Kadish in our "original" instance. And there is also an alternate instance where Kadish was never born, or was born with only three legs, or wasn't ever named 'Kadish' to begin with, but is actually 'Todd'.

So for Yeesha to say that she travelled through time isn't really correct, because she didn't. She just traveled to an alternate instance.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:13 am 
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Calam wrote:
This means that, somewhere out there in the cosmic Great Tree of Possibilities, Kadish Tolesa is alive and doing well.

nice person/people: the Age's name is Kadish Tolesa, not the person. :)

Quote:
So for Yeesha to say that she travelled through time isn't really correct, because she didn't. She just traveled to an alternate instance.

To be clear, Yeesha did in fact do some time travel tricks in Path of the Shell with the Pellet Bahro Cave. Further, even though she did so in an alternate universe, she would still have had to go back in time 200 years to get to the point in time where Kadish would still have been alive to save. So it's not like she's lying about traveling through time, she's just being less than forthcoming about how she did so ;).

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:50 am 
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Quote:
nice person/people: the Age's name is Kadish Tolesa, not the person.


Every time I say that, someone tells me the exact opposite of what the last person told me. I have no idea anymore.

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To be clear, Yeesha did in fact do some time travel tricks in Path of the Shell with the Pellet Bahro Cave. Further, even though she did so in an alternate universe, she would still have had to go back in time 200 years to get to the point in time where Kadish would still have been alive to save. So it's not like she's lying about traveling through time, she's just being less than forthcoming about how she did so.


The Bahro Cave is a different story, because Yeesha didn't make the Bahro Cave-- the Bahro did. It's obvious that the Bahro have mastered time and how it relates to The Great Tree. I personally doubt that Yeesha has.

And to nitpick again, yes, she is lying about traveling back in time, because she's not traveling back in time, she's traveling to another time in another instance. There is a difference.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:35 am 
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Calam wrote:

Every time I say that, someone tells me the exact opposite of what the last person told me. I have no idea anymore.


Hahahaha!!!

Tolesa always seems like a perfect last name for Kadish. I'm always being corrected too.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:29 am 
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You have to remember, we're dealing with quantum physics here. Events in space/time are not set until they are precieved (Shrodigger's cat... man I hope that's how the guy's name is spelled :P). If an event has already been precieved (Kadish's death) then you cannot change it. However, you CAN use the Art to travel to a quantum reality that is identical to that of a period before Kadish's death to save him. Hence, both events are true, despite the fact they contradict each other.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:38 am 
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MatzeEdend wrote:
You have to remember, we're dealing with quantum physics here. Events in space/time are not set until they are precieved (Shrodigger's cat... man I hope that's how the guy's name is spelled :P). If an event has already been precieved (Kadish's death) then you cannot change it. However, you CAN use the Art to travel to a quantum reality that is identical to that of a period before Kadish's death to save him. Hence, both events are true, despite the fact they contradict each other.


Yes, that's what I said. 'Time travel' is when you travel back in time in a single instance. Only the Bahro can do that. Yeesha cannot (although I bet she wishes she could).

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