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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:36 am 
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I wonder what RAWA would say :shock:

because honestly, I have no idea if it travels through time or not...

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:04 am 
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Assuming the Ages viewed by each viewer combination are unique, it's reasonable to expect most of them to appear "empty" (or as static, as I recall? Been a while since I played RealMyst) if the machine isn't guided by the Art or the Maker and is instead giving a fair sampling of random points across random universes.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:29 pm 
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AGGH!!! The math!

Anyway, Perhaps the image viewer was 'imprecise'. A radio can tune into stations like 99.5 and 85.3. Maybe the viewer only can focus in on one out of every 1000 Ages, or 10,000 Ages. Like a radio that can only do whole numbers.

Or maybe it can only do Ages that are "bound" to the Age it's in, perhaps by having a linking book to the age viewed in the age the viewer is in..........................................................I'm not making one bit of sense am I?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:39 pm 
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If the pattern with his little test age holds, notably the one where changing colours of a set modifies the particular age, well... then that's a whole factor gone. And it covers even LESS ages.


It HAS to cover only a scattering, likely randomish determined by the exact properties of the crystals used (no 2 are alike, even if they're carved the same). Has to because it's always a finite set coverting a near-infinite multiverse. Even ignoring the smearing effect instances would have, there's too many out there to cover with crystals like that.

Plus if they are modified by random impurities as you'd expect, well, then it's not usable for dedicated work. That's why the Rime viewer was an experiment. Atrus was doing experiments constantly, and that one would have been one. If he *did* get it to work, well, it would likely be tunable some way to a range. Something closer to analogue. And even then hit and miss with what ages it could pick up, considering the sheer quantities you're trying to get. At best you'd have a listing of ages you'd made connection to by tuning on linking books or something. Which is close to Myst 4, where Atrus tunes the device himself ahead of time to Rime and nothing else.


As a note, a radio tuning FM is actually tuning to a frequency, specifically in megahertz for the FM band and kilo for AM. Your 99.5 is really 99,500,000 hz. Why they stick to exact frequencies I'm not sure, I guess it's so tuning equipment can run easier or something...

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:41 am 
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Squid wrote:
Anyway, Perhaps the image viewer was 'imprecise'. A radio can tune into stations like 99.5 and 85.3. Maybe the viewer only can focus in on one out of every 1000 Ages, or 10,000 Ages. Like a radio that can only do whole numbers.

I see what you're saying, but radios don't work like that, being analog (even the "digital" stations broadcast waves which are analog in essence). Suffice to say: "unknown technological difficulties."


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:06 am 
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are you guys suggesting their are more combinations for the crystal viewer in Myst Revelation then are mentioned in the note books??

Because I found out about a combination for the fire place puzzle in the Myst library in Uru that gives you an unusual gift and the combination is not any where in the Uru that I know of, perhaps its the same thing here.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:35 am 
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Gondar wrote:
As a note, a radio tuning FM is actually tuning to a frequency, specifically in megahertz for the FM band and kilo for AM. Your 99.5 is really 99,500,000 hz. Why they stick to exact frequencies I'm not sure, I guess it's so tuning equipment can run easier or something...

And, of course, the Hz is just an approximation of the actual frequency of any given wave. There will be variations from one wave to the next, influenced by noise. You can try to limit the deviance of the waves from the ideal norm, but never actually achieve a perfect waveform or wave period.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:10 am 
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Ok... and I guess ages are the same way. Hence the Rime viewer had fuzz even when you were exact.


It does raise the question of how much ages 'overlap' in frequency. I mean, 10 vs 10.0000001 hz won't make a severe difference noticable. How much is the variation of an instance?

That's why I think any imager is a lot of hit and miss, and a BIG lot of tuning to try to get the few you're looking for ignoring the rest.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:16 am 
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Gondar wrote:
It does raise the question of how much ages 'overlap' in frequency. I mean, 10 vs 10.0000001 hz won't make a severe difference noticable.

Are you sure about that? The universal constants of physics (i.e. the gravitational constant, or the weak atomic force) are calculated to great precision; changing one by as much as 1/10,000,000 could (or would) make life impossible.

1/10,000,000 seems like a small number, but consider that planets are whirling through outer space, and suddenly that seems like a huge variation.

It doesn't really matter how small the variation is - if there's anything to chaos theory, pretty quickly from the single small change resulting in the splitting off of an alternate universe the changes become manifold and widespread - all from one little cause.

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How much is the variation of an instance?

I wish I knew.

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That's why I think any imager is a lot of hit and miss, and a BIG lot of tuning to try to get the few you're looking for ignoring the rest.

In reality, I'd say that if you had a fair sampling of the various possible worlds, even getting one correct figure would probably be incorrect - unless, and I had a flash here - you're measuring only worlds that are alternates or descended from alternates of the current world.

Imagine, then, a base ("prime") universe for Uru, and as alternate worlds are produced (very quickly) from that prime, they are somehow retained or able to be found as "descendants" (probably a meaningless distinction from the universes which our "prime" itself came from) by the imager. In that case you'd probably expect most of the worlds to be able to found quite quickly. Unfortunately, we don't really have a clue how the imager works, so that's just speculation.

I wrote you another reply elsewhere stating that Uru really is a work of fiction after all; they stop in at any time and say that we're all fuzzy bunnies made of stars, and that would be canon.

Whether or not their interpretation of God vs. quantum science is "correct" is subjective, as quantum science / string and alternate world theories are yet evolving. I think they've made an admirable attempt to straddle the subject, but it's probably all based on dated understandings of the science (and, of course, science vs. God raises yet more potential problems).


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:30 am 
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So use your imagination

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I myself am attempting to make rides, ie rollercoasters :evil:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:05 pm 
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Anyway, who cares? :roll:

After all, my freeview box can only pickup a fraction of channels being broadcast, and an even smaller fraction of all available frequencies - which, being continuous from 0Hz to oo Hz (how DO you do an infinity sign in text?) - and, who knows, to -oo Hz as well - makes it a pretty good analogy.

Do D'ni Imagers have Freeview? :P And would it be called a Bahrobox? :D

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:02 am 
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Karkadann wrote:

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Because I found out about a combination for the fire place puzzle in the Myst library in Uru that gives you an unusual gift and the combination is not any where in the Uru that I know of, perhaps its the same thing here.


Karakdann, if you're referring to the Relto page, that combination actually comes from the original Myst game and you're right, it's not referred to anywhere in Uru. When I got the fireplace in POTS, I dug out my Myst notebook and copied the code from there - even though I had the POTS code as well, it just seemed like the logical thing to do. I always thought of it as a reward for the Myst/Uru fans who have stuck with the series from the beginning.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:13 am 
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sarabonny wrote:
Anyway, who cares? :roll:

Indeed, why do we care about the puzzles at all? Wastes of time if you ask me...


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:19 pm 
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cathyk wrote:
Karkadann wrote:

Quote:
Because I found out about a combination for the fire place puzzle in the Myst library in Uru that gives you an unusual gift and the combination is not any where in the Uru that I know of, perhaps its the same thing here.


Karakdann, if you're referring to the Relto page, that combination actually comes from the original Myst game and you're right, it's not referred to anywhere in Uru. When I got the fireplace in POTS, I dug out my Myst notebook and copied the code from there - even though I had the POTS code as well, it just seemed like the logical thing to do. I always thought of it as a reward for the Myst/Uru fans who have stuck with the series from the beginning.


It was a resipe for D'nied eggs and the fire place combination looked like a digital cross section of a hard boiled egg...............kinda sorta

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:22 pm 
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The idea I had for the imager/viewers was that they acted like the Art. The elemental properties of the crystals shape, color, and placement on the holding platforms created an artificial dimensional pathway "leading" to a specific point in space and time. Given the small range of crystal shapes, I would imagine that the shapes limited the instancing. Given that the viewer was intended for viewing Riven, it's possible that the shapes were only designed to find a specific type of Age (perhaps using the weather or the plant life since some of the views are of the unreleased jungle test age Huevo). Some of it is also likely the limitations of development, but oh well. :D

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