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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:47 am 
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((NOTE: This comment contains an awful LOT of Uru spoilers, so don't read unless finished all of the complete
chronicles.)


(NOTE 2: I haven't played Myst V yet nor any other Myst game, but I've read a few spoilers about all of 'em (which I don't mind reading, so long as they aren't solutions for main puzzles or something), so I'll just focus about what I know of the Myst universe from Uru. And also, I have never played any of the MOUL content either but spoilers aren't minded either.)

(NOTE 3: This post will be WAY too long, so I apologize for it's saturation of info).

(NOTE 4: I apologize for the spelling and grammar mistakes. Will keep correcting them as I find them).

So, what is the truth behind the journey? We know there are many porpusses and motiviations to take it, like, for example,
Yeesha's request, our duty as members of the DRC or merely personal curiosity or desire to follow the end of the path.

Do we really achieve something? Is there something to be found or to achieve in the journey? Did someone already achieved so?

Here are some personal observations that may hint out what might be hidden behind the whole journey and things that actually prevent us from knowing. Take in mind multiple probabilities and alternative tellings of the story:

• The D'ni people: What if the D'ni made the path as a way to protect the secrets of their city? What if they made it a way to hide all the power that layed deep into their civilization and make sure it didn't fall into the hands of someone who would grow proud with that power? Maybe they ackownledged that D'ni's fall was something inevitable and a rebirth would just bring an endless cycle of birth, pride and death. Yet they made the path possible so someone who could be wise enough to find the truth (possibly us, the players) could find the key to D'ni's power, but not the power itself, or the truth behind D'ni. Also, they could have made the journey as a way to teach us the recquiered wisdom and knowledge to find the truth. We haven't found out the complete truth, tho, as it's obvious the end of the path hasn't be reached yet.

• DRC: Perhaps the DRC knew plenty of things we were never told about and/or were kept away from most people. That's something we can maybe agree with, knowing that through reading the abandoned notes, we can tell how some of their messages had information exclusive to just between two people rather than being of general knowledge. Maybe they were trying to avoid us from taking the path and just follow their orders into supporting the restoration? According to their many requests for us to not follow certian places or info, there's certianly the chance they wanted to keep the path as hidden as possible from many, incluiding ourselves. Even between themselves there was mistrust and secrets (why would they use the spy room in first place? Wanted to know secret info they were denied to know?).
It's obvious the DRC was much more focused into restoring D'ni for their own scientific benefit and saw the revival of D'ni and it's civilization as a threat to their plans. So with that said, we could consider the DRC was an obstacle. Fortunately, they are forced to abandon the project, allowing us to follow the path freely. However, many of the locations we find the journey seem to be places the DRC had in mind for you to follow anyway.

• Someone else: Maybe a third party or someone we are given faint hints of, yet we can ackowledge his/her presence if we think deep enough? Someone unrelated to the D'ni, the Bahro and the DRC. I know, I really don't have much to back-up these thoughts. But maybe the truth of the journey was just something schemed or made by a great unknown? (not the whole story of Myst, mind you, just the journey we take on Uru).

• Zandi, Sharper and Phil: These three are perhaps the most intrigating of the DRC staff members.

- Phil apparently suffered some sort of insanity from what we could tell from his journal: the lack of caps would indicate a rush on his writing as an impulsive need to write it down, but that's just speculation and his lack of coherence on what he writes was either allucination or info way too difficult for us or even himself to understand. Perhaps it was caused after he completed the journey...oh yes, perhaps Phil was one of the firsts or first (which could be many or few) to complete the entire journey! If we look at his booskhelf we can see it's full, which could mean he had already seen all the ages the journey was composed of. What did he figured out, what he learnt or what he discovered through it until it was finished is still unknown, but judging on his journal and many other things sorrounding him, it must be something primordial: could have been something shocking and unbelievable, so much it could turn someone entirely obsessed with it; could have been something puzzling and ambiguous, which could have made Phil turn completely confused and questioned about the truth and end obsessed with seeking the answer; it could have also be nothing, nothing really important, something completely unwanted or something which in the end had little to no significance for Phil, making him go into a serious case of dissapointment and questioning which, in turn, could make him go into a desperate refusal of the truth and personal quest to find an acceptable truth. All these scenarios, of course, woud leed him into insanity. Which ended ultimately into his death, making us unable to find out any other info of whatever he found on his journey. But from what we can learn is that the journey entraps whoever who follows it deeply into it and can turn anyone not prepared for the wisdom and knowledge insane upon finding the truth or, in fact, would made someone lose his/her sanity before he/she even finishes the journey.

- Douglas Sharper: Maybe not much to say about him, but still worth mentioning. He was apparently left behind from the whole DRC staff after the project was canceled. He seemed to be more and more fascinated with D'ni the more he worked in there from what we read on his journal. The cancellation would have been a whole desillusion for him. We don't know what does he go off to after he finishes his journals because he refuses to explain. He either gave up and went back to the surface to continue his life...
or he began to take the path himself. Why? Well, for starters, he was one of the very few people aware of our presence on D'ni after it was fully abandoned. He didn't know who were we, but he knew we were there. Perhaps that was a little inspiration for him to take the journey. Maybe not all of it, or perhaps start it from a different point. But his desire to know about D'ni was maybe his biggest motive for following the path...also, why would Zandi give him the coordinates for the link towards the great shaft? Maybe he wanted to encourage him into following the path? The path of the shell to be precise...because for what we can tell from the symbols on To D'ni, the great shaft was merely the beggining for the path of the shell.

- Zandi: Quite a mysterious guy he is for me. He apparently seems to know much more about the journey that any other character and perhaps as much as Yeesha. He knew about the journey clothes, their locations, Yeesha's message, the 'tree' (could be the tree on the cleft or the whole symbolism of trees on D'ni), the coordinates for the great shaft and, of course, the journey itself. Perhaps he knows all the truth, or at least part of it, and is very good at handling it, so much that he is selective towards who shall follow the path to find it, and we were one of those he trusted could find the truth by their own.

• The great shaft: This place is so full of mystery. Starting from the fact it doesn't seem to be somewhere easy to link at, or somewhere practically impossible to link to by normal means (even if we can link to it from the bookshelf, but that's once after we find it first). The great zero was perhaps made on the only purposse to open the Path of the Shell, starting with the great shaft (unless it did something somewhere else on D'ni, beyong Ae'Gura). It must be some place to important to be hidden away. The link to the nexus doesn't work and neither does the KI dispenser, weather because of age or someone disabled it. On a contradicting note, tho, there's a door on the room on the shaft, which could possibly an alternate access, one we could guess it's blocked and made inaccesible. Since the shaft is described to be a link between D'ni and the surface we can guess the shaft literally digs up to the surface. What lies below, however, is unknown. Watson tells how by jumping down we will see a glimpse of the future and to never doubt upon falling. We see no fallen corpses there, so there's the chance than falling down doesn't kill you (after all, there's no other way to safely end down there). Or, maybe the bottom of the shaft isn't somewhere real yet. Maybe somewhere else, somewhere we are meant to go in the future or somewhere that doesn't exist yet. Or maybe it is a real place down there, but we can't reach there yet. Those who jumped down before us were maybe sent somewhere else. Us (the players), however, link back to Relto, probably out of fear that we'd just jump down to our death. Whichever is down there, must be important. But there's seemingly no way to figure out what it really and what it means.

•Bahro: Perhaps the Bahro are the ones who know the truth, and the journey itself is meant to be their key to freedom and, in reward, to lead you to find the truth. Their imprisonment had a lot to do with D'ni's downfall since it was the D'ni's pride what made them prisoners in first place, thus that may mean they are the key to the power within D'ni and their imprisonment was what kept the truth from being ever found. Backtracking, Phil could have not freed the Bahro and thus never finding the truth, leading towards the 3rd scenario of desillussion or maybe the 2nd one.

• Yeesha: Yes, I know there's been some topics regarding about Yeesha and what does she really have to do with the journey. So this is my take: weather for good or bad, she wants whatever is behind the truth of D'ni, tho it's confusing since she seems to know a lot of it already. For starters, she's the grower, or so she claims to be. There a reason why she couldn't follow the path with all her powers? What if the path was made impossible for someone like her to follow so she requests you to do it for herself? What if the path was made in order to be impossible for the D'ni people so they didn't grow proud for the power they could find? Maybe Yeesha isn't that powerful at all. She doesn't claim to be almighty, but just to have some great powers. And, if I ain't wrong, on Myst V she requests you to help her gain the power of the tablet, something she couldn't do herself. For all of this mind, it could be assumed that Yeesha is just using you as a tool. She may not be evil and she may be good, but she truly seems to just tell you things (probably her own version of things) so you can trust her and follow her lead, to become her servant of sorts.
In a more extremist perspective, what if the whole journey WAS Yeesha's own scheme to gain followers for her deeds? And also, as a way for you to discover things Yeesha herself was unable to find out, like the great shaft (her mention of changing the journey symbo, the shell, could suggest she knows the way, but she can't reach it, so she needs you to do that for her) or the Bahro caves, which she couldn't reach in order to free the Bahro, so she needed you to do it on her behalf, so the Bahro could also trust and to some extentent follow Yeesha and help her discovering more about D'ni, but the rest of the journey was made up mostly by herself: she told you which places to go and what to do to ultimately make you believe you were doing good. She may know the whole truth, be she can't reach what the truth tells, so she needs someone able to do so to follow her. And thus she plans up the whole journey.
Waaay to extreme I know. To have a character like her being behind the whole thing all the time just like that and watching over you, making sure your actions are the right ones for her goals. Pretty weird...but, if she ever starts to promise us some reward like cake, things ain't gonna be pretty no doubt....

•Yeesha's mother's dream:

"Yeesha...last night your mother had a dream" A possible foretelling of the future.

"We know some futures aren't cast by writer or maker...but the dream tells the ancient D'ni city will grow again someday" Reffering to the fact that someone foreign to D'ni and it's people will be the one to fulfill this future or be the cause of it.

"New seekers of DNI are flowing from the desert, feeling cold to something they do not understand" I can tell it reffers to the DRC people. Their project for the restoration of D'ni and their invesigations about all of D'ni. Of course, all but very few of them seemed to be not the ones to find any of the truth on D'ni, since they were not be able to handle it. Backtracking to Phil again, perhaps he wasn't the one to handle the truth.

"But the dream also tells of a desert bird with the power to lead to this D'nis future." (note: I need to revisite the written letter to know well what this line says) Could reffer to the one who will fulfill D'ni's bright future. 'Desert' bird pretty much claims that the one to do so will come from the Cleft, or at least start the journey from there.

"We fear such power, it...changes people". Could mean two things:
1, those who seek the power or the truth that leads to the power end becoming a different person. On a third backtrack to Phil, it was the power that lied before the truth of the journey what turned him into a madman, weather it was instantly or progressed as he followed the journey isn't clear.
2: Those who hold the power itself are no longer their older selves. Yeesha could have got ahold of the power and turn into a proud arrogant D'ni.

"Yeesha...our desert bird". 'Our' sounds more like her parents believed her to be the desert bird but weren't entirely sure of it or were fully certian and were wrong. This could have encouraged Yeesha into attemping to follow the path as she believed it was her who would revive D'ni...which in someway could have grown pride into her.

"Your sarch seems to take you further and further from us...I hope what you find will bring you closer..." Two ways to interpretate this:
Yeesha DID follow the journey herself AND got the power of D'ni, which is the power she has now, and she makes you re-take the journey for you to do what she can't now the she has the power, since maybe the power limits her off from doing things you can, like freeing the Bahro. Going further could literally mean going places far away from her home where her parents were.
Another interpretation is that her parents watched as Yeesha attampted to take the journey (weather succesful or not) and 'further' means that Yeesha grew proud and somewhat arrogant about her role on her journey. Then, there could have been some dispute between her and her parents about the journey and her new self which made them more and more separate, so they hoped that once Yeesha found what was to be found on the journey, she'd go back with them and return to her older self.


Okay, so, those are all my own personal findings on the journey. I apologize for taking away the time for those who had to read through all this. I hope my findings were interesting for ya. And also, I apologize if I have something wrong here, I have yet to know about the Myst universe myself.

Feel free to discuss my findings and to also share your own. I'd love to see what everyone else has observed and thinks about it as well.


Edit Came by from reading another topic from this forums: http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15877.
Made me re-think some stuff.

• Dr. Wattson: So in the end it was him the one who freed the Bahro, but apparently out of Yeesha's demands, and Wattson was pretty much an antithesis of hers since he opposed her. And it seemed like he didn't want to free the Bahro himself. I am yet to know more about this of course, tho I've read there and there that Myst V isn't even canon.

• Bahro: There's truly no real explanation as how and why the Bahro were imprisoned. Since it was Yeesha the one who told us about the imprisonment of the Bahro and the pride of the D'ni and blah blah blah, and knowing Yeesha can't be a reliable source of info, we can tell there was a much more obscure reason as to why they were imprisoned. They were very powerful beings, and perhaps they weren't exactly the kind of powerful beings who used them for the forces of good...maybe Yeesha was aware of that, so that's why she wanted them free: to make them follow her and use their powers for her own plans. Maybe it wasn't pride what imprisoned them but it was pride what freed them instead. But who will really know.

• DRC: I'm starting to think that it was the truth itself what made them abandon the whole project. Maybe they discovered something about D'ni they themselves couldn't handle or were afraid. Like the Bahro. Remember in Gahreesen how they are mentioned on one of the journals in a scary perspective? It is possible they learnt about the Bahro and became afraid of what would happen would they be released. Maybe that's why they really abandonded the cave and, of course, kept that info away from most of the workers. That might also be a reason why on the neighorhood the message warned people about not touching the Bahro stones, even tho they did not forbid you from doing so. Maybe at that point it was then the project was about to be abandoned and whoever dared to follow the stones would be on their own.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:05 pm 
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wow, that was LONG!! :D

Your thoughts are very interesting and you have touched many points and found some of the questions that we are still trying to give an answer to. :)

Of course there are things that you don't know, I recommend you to play MystV, that may be very enlighting.

One thing I noticed is the concept that the Journey was made by the D'ni. I don't thing this is true and I think many others do. The commonly accepted version is that the Journey was made by Yeesha with the help of the bahro and with their powers, to show us was she found about the D'ni: first of all, the imprisonment of the bahro. And she needs our help to set them free.

You may be interested in knowing some of the things that happened during the Prologue (the time between Uru:ABM and To:D'ni): Documentaries of the Great Tree are a series of documentaries about those days. Unfortunately haven't had the chance to finish all of them.

The explorers are not members of the DRC.
At the time of Uru:CC the DRC refused to follow and acknowledge Yeesha's Journey. Only during the following events, happened during MystOnline they followed it and understood what the D'ni were.

Phil is a very curious character. We know that he didn't die during the cave in in the Guild Hall, the bahro saved him.

Since the Journey wasn't made by the D'ni, the Great Zero and the Great Shaft couldn't have been built to open the Path of the Shell. The Book of Ti'ana (one of the 3 Myst novels) tells the story of how the Great Shalf was built. And you can find the story of the GreatZero on the Tokotah Rooftop, in the book of King Ri'neref. The Great Shaft is really the link between the surface and D'ni; going up it leads to the Volcano near the Cleft, and going down it leads to the tunnels leading to D'ni.
Here is the map.

Yeesha: she requests Watson to take the tablet because she already did, but she failed in using it, and now she can't take it a second time. She wants it but she tell Watson to not give it to her.

We weren't sure that MystV was canon until Watson confirmed those events in MystOnline; so now we know we can consider EoA (at least the general story of it) to be canon.

There are other things I could say but I would spoil your game experience (especially in MystV)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:04 pm 
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Indeed. XP

Oh hey, thanks for all that info I was missing! I'll check it out completely when I have the time.
Further shows how much I need to know about the Myst universe.
Sorry everyone for making myself look like a dumb, hehe. :(
Then again I hadn't even started to play Uru when all the story was greatly unfolded so I guess I gotta research it all myself.

Well then, we should scratch out Phil's death. Tho I guess it doesn't clear it out about if his mental health is bad or not, does it?
So I see then. Just thought the path of the shell and the great zero/great shaft had something important to do with the path. Altough the only hint I can have of it is just the shell symbol.
And you all might be actually right about the journey being made all by Yeesha and/or the Bahro. Altough in a different perception, I think the path might be actually made before and all Yeesha did was re-arrange it or something so it could accomodate for what you needed to know through it, but she wouldn't have exactly made it.

I definitely need to play Myst V. If only I could have a softwere store nearby to me. XP


Well thanks again for the information. :) And I honestly don't mind spoilers, so long as they don't spoil it for someone who doesn't want to. So long as it's only story-line spoilers and not solutions to the game.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:10 am 
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Living-Mantenience-Suit wrote:
Further shows how much I need to know about the Myst universe.
Sorry everyone for making myself look like a dumb, hehe. :(

Don't worry we are always happy to teach and discuss again pieces of the story :D

Quote:
Then again I hadn't even started to play Uru when all the story was greatly unfolded so I guess I gotta research it all myself.

Yes, it's a shame that there isn't a place where all of what happened in MystOnline is reported. Not that I know of, at least.

Quote:
And you all might be actually right about the journey being made all by Yeesha and/or the Bahro. Altough in a different perception, I think the path might be actually made before and all Yeesha did was re-arrange it or something so it could accomodate for what you needed to know through it, but she wouldn't have exactly made it.

Yes, that would explain this sentence:
"It’s as a fine tapestry. Complex beyond comprehension, but now torn. We will show you remnants, pieces of the tapestry."
If there are remnants it means that it isn't new. Or maybe Yeesha just means that the Journey would be clearer if the Ages wouldn't be so damaged by the passing of time.
The Journey Cloths and the Doors are surely not D'ni Art or Tecnology, their powers break the rules of the D'ni Art. They use the kind of Art that only Yeesha knows, and also something derived from the Bahros I think.
[spoiler=Spoiler for storyline in MystV]
In a journal Yeesha tells about her time alone in D'ni, when she left Tomahna to go exploring the Cavern. There, in the library, she meets a D'ni survivor called Calam, he is a Writer and they start sharing their knowledges about the Art. Yeesha learned the Art from Atrus, and Atrus learned the Art by his mistakes, so they didn't follow the rules the D'ni made for Writing. On the other side, Calam was taught to Write by the Guild of Writers and so he follows the D'ni rules for writing. Calam calls heresy what Yeesha dares to Write because it breaks the D'ni rules. For many months they kept discussing and learning one from the other, Yeesha learning the knowledge of the D'ni, and Calam learning to break the D'ni rules. At the end they got to a new Art, the powerful Art that Yeesha uses.
It is not clear how Calam died. It seems that someone else arrived in the Cavern and killed Calam. Then Yeesha killed him (or imprisoned him with the Art?).
This is how Yeesha got her great powers over the Art
[/spoiler]

Quote:
I definitely need to play Myst V. If only I could have a softwere store nearby to me. XP

You can still find it in the Amazon Store

:D

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