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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:52 pm 
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I am not sure that we can take anything Yeesha said in the recordings literally, I mean she was a bit off in the head it would seem when she made them, but I always thought she was just a but off anyway, but she was even more so disturbed after failing her quest to free the Least. thats just my opinion anyway

Oh and laughingpineapple I love you for the Doctor Who reference
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:25 pm 
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Well I don't know I mean everything else she said in this recording (brothers dead, Calam dead, father using her as a tool) really did happen (her father did kinda' use her as a tool to forget his sons, though I guess she's also quite angry with him). And Catherine, if we say Riven dwellers have about the same life-span as humans, should have well died about 15-20 years after Yeesha left Tomahna...wait, how old was Catherine during BoA?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:51 pm 
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yeesha's imager speaches???
though i havn't had the chance to delve into Myst V extensivley, i only remember finding her journals that players could hear a voice over from altay reading them if player's wanted to hear the words spoken and not just read them.

similar to what the necklace did in Myst IV, though a lot more realistically given they would have had memories of writing them in Myst IV. Yeesha in Myst V just came through as a disembodied voice.... magic?

anywho i don't recall any imagers?? just yeesha's journals one found along the descent... and i in now ways recall hearing mention of her watching catherine die; though i do blow over a great deal of her monologues... :P :P


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:08 am 
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There were imagers in each of the edertee tomahn, and if you pressed the button, you got Yeesha venting on some topic or other.

Interesting thought...in Myst V, which IC is a game created by "Cyan" from Watson's journals and recollections, Yeesha looks older, as would befit someone who'd been around for two hundred years. But as I understand it (I wasn't there) when she appeared in K'veer to the explorers in Uru (which IC is real) she looked the same as she did in the Cleft hologram. I don't know if this has been covered elsewhere, but if she's still the same apparent age as she was then, maybe Atrus is too. Maybe the ageing was added by "Cyan" for reasons of plausibility or something.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:25 am 
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I guess Myst V version of Yeesha is the "real" one. I know that Uru is supposed to be official canon, but it makes much more sense in Myst V.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:42 pm 
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there's a reason i havn't had much oppertunity to play V, the only computer it will work on is virused or buged beyond being inoperable... my laptop and my homes only other machine both spit incompatability errors back at me!!

... i must have missed the imagers in my all to breif runthrough; funny, the eder's aren't exactly hard to miss, wonder if the imagers are similar... exploring more of the great shaft was the only thing i took out of V...


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:39 am 
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Just as a side-note: the plural of eder tomahn 'rest house' would (presumably) be eder tomahntee 'rest houses' rather than edertee tomahn. The latter, if it is grammatically possible, would seem to mean a (single) "house" were many rests take place -- not an impossible idea, but apparently not what Zander meant.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:02 pm 
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My bad. I assumed "Eder" was the noun, as in Surgeons General and Courts Martial. I really must learn some D'ni one of these days.

ThedStranger: I don't see how the Yeesha in Myst V can be the "real" one, simply on the basis of the placing of the games in the hierarchy of "reality." It's vanishingly unlikely that "Cyan" got the genuine Yeesha in to play her part in Myst V, so they must have employed an actor (such as Rengin Altay) and made her look the way they would imagine Yeesha would look given the lapse of time. In contrast, unless you theorise that the Yeesha who appeared in front of all those people in K'veer to deliver a brand new and contemporary message was some sort of construct or impostor, which raises lots and lots of interesting questions about veracity and so on, you have to accept that that was the real Yeesha, speaking to us here and now, and therefore she has not changed in two hundred years.

This raises more questions (whom did Doctor Watson actually see, if "Cyan" were working from his description? If I'm right about Esher masquerading as a D'ni, did Watson encounter any actual D'ni at all?) and we may, if we wish, assume that Cyan (in the real world) intended these inconsistencies to be questioned, thought about, used as the basis for speculation. Or, of course, we can assume that Cyan got it wrong yet again, if that pleases us.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:35 pm 
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In contrast, unless you theorise that the Yeesha who appeared in front of all those people in K'veer to deliver a brand new and contemporary message was some sort of construct or impostor, which raises lots and lots of interesting questions about veracity and so on, you have to accept that that was the real Yeesha, speaking to us here and now, and therefore she has not changed in two hundred years.


Actually, I don't *have* to accept it. You just have to look at it from a OOC point of view. It's called Artistic License, and Uru has bits of it too (like the way linking panels work). Yeesha must have aged during the last 200 years, so I take the Myst V version as the real one, the way she looks today.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:17 pm 
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Well, if it comes to that, I don't have to accept that these books and things work at all. It's just pixels on a screen. It's not real.

No, nobody has to believe any of this stuff at all. None of what we see or hear in the game needs to have any in-game significance whatsoever. I prefer to operate on the principle that as much of it as possible is (IC) real. It's called playing the game, and I prefer doing it. On that basis, there's no "must" about Yeesha ageing at all; there could be any number of reasons why she hasn't aged. On the other hand, what has been said by Cyan about the relative "reality" of Myst V and Uru is quite unequivocal, such that if you deny that you are refusing to accept an essential part of the basic story. This is of course a perfectly valid way of approaching the game; it's just a succession of puzzles and the setting is irrelevant. I just can't see why anyone would want to play Uru that way.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:19 pm 
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Well, if it comes to that, I don't have to accept that these books and things work at all. It's just pixels on a screen. It's not real.


I think you would agree with me that Yeesha's aging and linking books are completely different things. Yeesha's skin quality had a much less significance in the lore, than linking books. So I believe we can disregard young Yeesha look, which has quite a small impact on the story, but we can't disregard the fact that linking books work, because, well, everything is based on this fact.

As much as we want to see Uru as completely IC, it still has some OOC holes, Artistic License. We KNOW, officialy, that Uru doesn't show us the way linking panels really work, for technical reasons. And we can't pick up rocks or fish-traps not because our hands are paralyzed, but because of OOC reasons. Yes, no story reasons here. And while I may be wrong, I really believe Yeesha looks young in Uru, not because she wants to look fresh and not because she has a Bahro curse on her which makes her forever young, but simply because it's Artistic License. Giving IC excuses to such a small thing is needless, IMO.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:28 am 
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ThedStranger wrote:
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Well, if it comes to that, I don't have to accept that these books and things work at all. It's just pixels on a screen. It's not real.


I think you would agree with me that Yeesha's aging and linking books are completely different things. Yeesha's skin quality had a much less significance in the lore, than linking books. So I believe we can disregard young Yeesha look, which has quite a small impact on the story, but we can't disregard the fact that linking books work, because, well, everything is based on this fact.

As much as we want to see Uru as completely IC, it still has some OOC holes, Artistic License. We KNOW, officialy, that Uru doesn't show us the way linking panels really work, for technical reasons. And we can't pick up rocks or fish-traps not because our hands are paralyzed, but because of OOC reasons. Yes, no story reasons here. And while I may be wrong, I really believe Yeesha looks young in Uru, not because she wants to look fresh and not because she has a Bahro curse on her which makes her forever young, but simply because it's Artistic License. Giving IC excuses to such a small thing is needless, IMO.


Why disregard "young Yeesha look" when "old Yeesha look" is, in terms of the "facts" we've been given with regard to the backstory of the game, much more to be disregarded?

I mean, if the idea that Yeesha hasn't aged in two hundred years makes you uncomfortable for some reason, then by all means assume that it's artistic licence or whatever, but this is what we've been shown and this is what we've been told, and I don't see any pressing reason to disbelieve it (in IC terms) and thus strain the internal logic. If you saw some contemporary celebrity portrayed in cartoon form on The Simpsons and then saw them in real life, would you assume that the way they actually look is the cartoon? That's the level of illogic to which this "artistic licence" leads.

But you're right, there's no compulsion to see possible clues to story ideas when you can just see something not done right. It's just the way I prefer to play.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:37 am 
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Why disregard "young Yeesha look" when "old Yeesha look" is, in terms of the "facts" we've been given with regard to the backstory of the game, much more to be disregarded?


I don't see any connection with Yeesha being a talented writer with her wonderful skin quality while being almost 200 years old, if that's what you mean. Truth is, we have been told that Atrus has "done things" to extand his life span, but fiery abyss even he looks very old.

The only fact I can see that supports this, is that Uru is considered more official than Myst V, canon-wise. And that's why I bring these examples of things which are, even in Uru, considered OOC, Artistic License.

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I mean, if the idea that Yeesha hasn't aged in two hundred years makes you uncomfortable for some reason, then by all means assume that it's artistic licence or whatever, but this is what we've been shown and this is what we've been told


What we've seen is a very young looking 200 years old Yeesha. Everything beyond it, and really everything, is speculations. You choose to give it an IC reason, and I choose not to, because it just feels like a little goof-off on Cyan World's part. We've never been told anything about it.

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and I don't see any pressing reason to disbelieve it (in IC terms) and thus strain the internal logic.


Well my internal logic tells me I don't need to seek IC answers to such things, as they look so much like Artistic License. Again, I give the example of the rocks and fish-traps: would you like to believe we can't pick them up because our hands are paralyzed?

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But you're right, there's no compulsion to see possible clues to story ideas when you can just see something not done right. It's just the way I prefer to play.


So it's just different preferences. You choose to believe everything in the game is intentional and has IC meaning, while I choose to believe that it's still a game and Cyan Worlds might have made mistakes here or there.

IMO, you are just digging to deep. Not everything is a clue to more backstory. If Yeesha doesn't age, we would get a more solid proof (Atrus actually says that he found ways to stay alive more than he actually could). Actually, I might even believe that the skin quality alone shows she doesn't age, but Uru already has quite a few Artistic License, and I feel this is one of them, because we never heared otherwise.

Also, I don't think that Cyan Worlds developed Myst V in the mindset of "this is just a game in the Uru world, not a real adventure, so we can intentionaly mess up with the lore", but in the mindset of "we try to make it as what we see as 'reality'". Considering Myst V was the last time they actually had time to create new character models for each character, they fixed the Uru young Yeesha, to an old 200 years old Yeesha, as she truely should be. Back at MOUL, they didn't care enough/had the resources to change the model to the more true Myst V one, so they used the young Yeesha.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:45 am 
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I'm not digging at all. My conclusion follows from what we have been told about Myst V's IC status and what I've been told about Yeesha's appearance in K'veer. The Yeesha in Myst V was (in IC terms) an actor; the Yeesha in K'veer was (in IC terms) "real." That's all there is to it. You're free to disregard those facts, as you are free to disregard any or all of the information we're given in the game, but if you accept it at all then it seems to me that the conclusion is inescapable.

I don't believe everything has an IC explanation, before you bring up the baskets in Gira yet again. I accept that the mechanics of the game are not as entirely realistic as I'd like them to be...but I don't go around ignoring what we are definitively told in order to bring the game world more in line with what I think it should be. That's just my approach to this kind of game. Yours is different; that's fine.

I very much dislike the "bahro war" storyline. I think it was ill-conceived, ineptly handled, and would only have worked if it had been the top layer of a much more complex story whose truth we could have discovered later on. Do I choose to believe that none of the events in that storyline happened? I do not. That (to me) would be cheating, on a par with the kid playing cowboys and Indians who refuses to lie down and play dead when he's been shot fair and square. It would invalidate (for me) the whole premise of the game. Thus, if Myst V is (in IC terms) anything but a game produced on the surface and loosely based on Doctor Watson's account of what actually happened to him after he went off his trolley a few years ago, then (for me) the whole story of the game starts to unravel. Is there a Doctor Watson? Is everything else he's told us true? Are the bahro really another species? Is Yeesha really Atrus's daughter? Was there an Atrus? Is any of this real? And the answer is of course No, to all of it, and at that point I stop playing because it doesn't work for me any more.

But your approach is less rigorous, and, as I said, that's perfectly okay. I am here simply trying to explain my reasoning, because I don't think you believe I've applied any.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:17 am 
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The Yeesha in Myst V was (in IC terms) an actor; the Yeesha in K'veer was (in IC terms) "real."


But Cyan Worlds won't intentionally mislead us, just because Myst V is "just a game" and Uru is not. If Yeesha really doesn't age, it seems to me they would take a younger actor, or make her look younger.

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I don't believe everything has an IC explanation, before you bring up the baskets in Gira yet again. I accept that the mechanics of the game are not as entirely realistic as I'd like them to be...but I don't go around ignoring what we are definitively told in order to bring the game world more in line with what I think it should be.


We were never definitively told Yeesha doesn't age. What we saw was a young-looking 200 years old Yeesha in K'veer, in Uru. Yet the fact the Cyan Worlds created an whole new model, an old Yeesha for Myst V, makes me believe that what we see in Uru is not what's "real". Yes, even though Uru is considered more canon than Myst V.

It's just different points of view, I guess. No problem.

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I very much dislike the "bahro war" storyline. I think it was ill-conceived, ineptly handled, and would only have worked if it had been the top layer of a much more complex story whose truth we could have discovered later on


Very much agreed. It had potential, but it just wasn't told well.

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Do I choose to believe that none of the events in that storyline happened? I do not. That (to me) would be cheating, on a par with the kid playing cowboys and Indians who refuses to lie down and play dead when he's been shot fair and square. It would invalidate (for me) the whole premise of the game.


You can't choose to ignore it, because we were *TOLD* it happens, it's official information. It's a *huge* part of the canon. On the other hand, we were never told Yeesha doesn't age, and nothing hints she doesn't- except for her skin in Uru. But given the fact the Cyan Worlds created a whole new old Yeesha for Myst V, and the fact that Uru still has Artistic License, and the fact that Yeesha's skin is not very important in the canon and so mistakes may be done with it- it all leads me to believe it's just Artistic License, and not story.

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But your approach is less rigorous, and, as I said, that's perfectly okay. I am here simply trying to explain my reasoning, because I don't think you believe I've applied any.


Don't worry, you explain you reasoning very well. I just try to explain mine too :)

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