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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:35 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:26 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:44 pm 
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When Ri'Neref & his followers first moved to D'ni from Garternay, they installed a series of large fans to circulate air. This air came from a number of tunnels, sub-caverns, & other caves (possibly including the Carlsbad Caverns), some leading all the way to the Surface. Upon completion of the fans, a small group of workers disappeared. Many of the D'ni at the time, and afterward, believed that they made it to the Surface, and either couldn't return, or for some reason chose not to return. But the D'ni government held to the end that no D'ni had ever made it to the Surface. Otherwise, D'ni history makes it clear that the Tunnels & Shaft were the first attempt made at reaching the Surface.

Anna/Ti'ana raised Atrus in the Cleft, right next to the opening to the Shaft. If any other D'ni Survivors had come to the Surface, I'm sure Anna & Atrus would've stayed with them (or vice-versa), or we would at least have some kind of record of this event. As for the vanishing workers from Ri'Neref's days...

In one of Gehn's Journals from Riven, he spoke of the Amad, the Surface-dwelling people of his wife, Keta:

"The construction of the imagers has proceeded without fault. It is interesting to see how easily I've been able to adapt the D'ni technology to mimic that of the Amad; in some ways the similarities between the two cultures was striking. I wonder if perhaps there had been communication or commerce between the two cultures in earlier times; maybe Keta's people were even descendants of the D'ni. It pleases me to think so."

Surface-dwellers, around the turn of the 19th Century, in New Mexico, with any kind of electrical technology (let alone imager technology) sounds positively absurd---unless there had been D'ni influence.

There are also several things in Native American culture from the region that could point to this. The name "Pueblo" was given to that tribe by the Spanish, but the Navajo people called them "Anasazi", meaning "ancient strangers" or "ancient aliens". Additionally, the Anasazi believed that their ancestors originally came from underground, through sacred openings to the underworld. Underground pits in Anasazi dwellings, called "Kivas" (afterwhich the 4 pits in Minkata are called), symbolized these openings.

And as discussed in the "Ancestral Pueblo and D'ni" thread in this Forum:

"Some modern Pueblo people in the Southwest still use the kiva as their holy chamber, and among those who speak the language of Tewa, the kiva is called te'i, 'the place of the cottonwood tree.' The kiva is thought to be a bridge between the underworld and the world above, and the hole traditionally placed in the kiva floor, just beyond the deflector stone and in front of the ladder, represents a place of emergence. In Tewa this hole is called p'okwi koji, 'the lake roof hole,' which leads up from a mysterious underground lake...."

This reference to a Tree is very interesting, and the reference to an underground lake is incredibly striking.

It's hard to say how far any Surface-dwelling D'ni could have traveled without much in the way of technology, but considering the D'ni Year 0 began on April 24, 7657 BC, their descendants could've traveled quite far. On the other side of the globe, "Uru" was a word in ancient Sumerian for "Deep City", and Sumerian legend tells of a great underground people.

Finally, in Dr. Watson's account of the rediscovery & early restoration of the D'ni Cavern, he said this about Elias Zandi:

"It was this meeting in the city where I realized that Elias and I differed on our views of the future of D’ni. It appeared to me that he was taking some rather extreme view regarding restoring the city to its 'original glory' and re-inhabiting it with people who called themselves D’ni. He said things like 'We feel the call, for many of us have the blood of D’ni within us, and it calls us home.' I must say that I understood some of what he was espousing, but not the extreme to which he was taking it."

The D'ni had no "official" or "sustained" contact with the Surface, so I would hardly say that they had any "colonies". But there is evidence that descendants of the early D'ni walk among us...

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:32 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:50 am 
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I like your thinking. I'm not so well learnt in the Native American cultures, I mean to get around to, but your arguement does appears to string together a possible thread of D'ni activity in human history. I would much like to research the D'ni timeline and D'ni invention to see how it may or may not be possible for the D'ni to reach Eurasia, Africa and Far East Asia from the Cleft.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:54 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:42 pm 
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The aforementioned thread "Ancestral Pueblo and D'ni" has gone in a similar thread as this one. I think the most distinct problem we have is the time period that we know that some of the D'ni had escaped. This would've put the D'ni in the Southwest during hunter-and-gathering cultures, 7500bce, and civilizations didn't rise until thousands of years later in that area. Anyway, not having to rehash the whole conversation here's the link.



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:37 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:01 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:31 am 
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I hope this isn't too far off-topic, but I found an interesting link, regarding an real ancient Australian tribe known as... the

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:33 am 
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There's a community of that name in Bolivia as well, with some interesting features. I found them while researching a story about something quite else.

's an article about them.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:25 am 
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I've always been fond of the idea that the D'ni who vanished during the construction of the vent shafts became the Atlantians of legend.

Atlantis was supposed to have existed about 10,000 years ago, roughly corresponding with the D'ni arrival on Earth. They were, by Plato's accounts, quite advanced scientifically and militarily. Though the D'ni themselves became by-and-large passive, the colony would have first-generation memory of the Garternay culture, and may have followed a path more like the Terahnee, becoming aggressive and dominant. According to Plato, it was Atlantis' attempt and failure to conquer and enslave Greece that led to it's distruction.

Supposedly, Atlantis was governed by 10 brothers, and their descendants. What if, instead of brothers, they were Guild Masters? I could, rather easily, par 18 guilds down to 10, combining some and eliminating others, particularily those that applied to the Art. On the fly, this is what I came up with:

Remaining Guilds
Archivists
Cartographers/Surveyors
Caterers
Chemists
Engineers/Mechanists
Healers
Legislators
Linguists
Maintainers
Messengers

Gone
Analysts
Book Makers
Ink Makers
Miners
Stone Masons
Writers

As to the name "Atlantis" The D'ni words "oglan tiwa" mean "ancient shaft". Distant generations of the colony could refer to it as such, and which could, over many centuries, change pronunciation into what Plato knew.

Other possibilities:
"golantan" - judge
"kahntintan" - oppressors
"oolintahn" - control


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:45 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:46 pm 
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Hmm, interesting idea. I'll look into the Altantis myth and try to bring forward the known history and 'location' of it.

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