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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:19 pm 
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I saw Christain Walther's Ahnonay State Diagram that documents what I suspected and is excellent testing. (Here)
Also, Cubkyle's Complete Guide (Here) is excellent and a long process.

Even with both of these I found it hard to get my head around what was going on. :oops:

Also, as a GoC participant I was wondering how to draw a map of Ahnonay. It took some thinking and this is what I came up with. Thanks to Christain for testing comparison to his diagram.

Ahnonay Map: Flash Map

This map was intended to display as only 500 pixels wide. Since this is a direct link to the Flash file your browser window size will determine what size it appears on your screen. You may need to shrink the window down. Also, I do not see any way to embed a Flash image in a forum page.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:32 pm 
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Excellent. I was considering to write a program that would show something like that. I am glad I had not started yet. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:40 pm 
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Ingenious! Nalates, this is the best one so far! For me, anyway. I still have trouble wrapping my brain around the big picture, so being able to view each state as a result of an action in another state is invaluable.

If you have the patience, it would be wonderful to add the full sequence of cloths, including the tower and the maintenance area ones, plus a "you are here" star. Then a person could walk all the way through it using your Flash animation.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:54 pm 
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What a great tool! Like with Christian's, I have some critique:

1. Kevin's original picture used the "Active" position as toward the top. It took a while to get my brain around Christian's "Active" position to the RIGHT. Now, it would appear that I have to get my brain around the "Active" position being to the BOTTOM? Or am I missing something?

2. It would be nice to add a side button to simulate a "helper" player rotating the Spheres while you are inside the Water Age. I suppose you could just click the Link Book in Misty Age to simulate this.

3. It would help to show (with annimation) how clicking the journey Cloth in the Control Room, after a helper has rotated the Sphere to Misty Age, CONNECTS the player to the 4th Sphere location.

Then we'd have the ultimate training tool.!

Cheers,

Dadguy

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:11 pm 
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dadguy, I appreciate the feedback. :)

I have seen the comments about the active sphere being at the top verses the bottom. I deliberately choose to put the active sphere at the bottom. I did that because in game that is the way it is. When standing on the skywalk you can see it is the bottom sphere that is connected to the chair.

AS to a "button to simulate a "helper" player"... and "help to show (with animation) how clicking the journey Cloth in the Control Room" both of these would help make it a full training tool. I gave some thought to how I might represent the multiplayer aspect. I did not come up with a good solution. Your suggestion to do an animation is as good. But staying with the interactive process… I could not come up with a simple, good way to do the user interface. I might make a tutorial animation that shows the solution, if I see enough need in the community after Ahnonay makes live.

My primary thought was initially just about mapping the age. It’s a GoC thing. GoC members try to avoid creating spoilers and giving away entire puzzles, another GoC thing. So, I chose not to reveal the location of the cloths, the actual number of them in the age or even the location of the switches. I considered putting two cloths in the appropriate spheres. I felt that was too much and left them out.

My goal was to illustrate how things work and help out testers. We seemed to have a serious problem explaining how the cloths linked and why they appeared to operate differently than other cloths. Explaining that and showing a… ‘basic’ or ‘simplified’ path through the age were the goals I decided I could accomplish.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:15 pm 
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Quote:
We seemed to have a serious problem explaining how the cloths linked and why they appeared to operate differently than other cloths.
The explanation hasn't changed since Ahnonay first came out in the summer of 2004. Handcloths remember time, shell cloths remember space. Not everyone's been around since then though.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:24 pm 
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Nalates wrote:
dadguy, I appreciate the feedback. :)

I have seen the comments about the active sphere being at the top verses the bottom. I deliberately choose to put the active sphere at the bottom. I did that because in game that is the way it is. When standing on the skywalk you can see it is the bottom sphere that is connected to the chair.

No, that is not right. The upper sphere is the active one. This can be determined by watching the rotation from the skywalk. Have a player at a door lever in each sphere and let them make their spheres active in turn. Note that the yellow light indicates sphere 4.

None of the spheres should be attached to the chair as it is outside the spheres. The chair comes from the axis, although this is not very clearly visible (it is the closed section of the tube).

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:05 pm 
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I had always envisaged the top sphere to be the active sphere because the chair goes down not up or left or right, then you go forwards.

The model you see on the walkway is hugely incomplete if you use flymode in the offline game, but it does show you how you get from the active sphere 4 to the office.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:01 am 
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Grogyan wrote:
I had always envisaged the top sphere to be the active sphere because the chair goes down not up or left or right, then you go forwards.

The model you see on the walkway is hugely incomplete if you use flymode in the offline game, but it does show you how you get from the active sphere 4 to the office.

Well... :? I may just have to turn the model over in the next revision and put the active one at the top...

Just looking from the skywalk, I really don't see anyway to get from a sphere to the chair. Whether the tube goes through the 4 sphere support axis or not the spheres are isolated except at their axis.

I'll fire up Blender and go take a look. I thought the connection was hidden behind the big support. But that could be a tube running up the side of support.

Thanks Grogyan and D'Lanor. This will make Dadguy happy. :D

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:09 am 
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Nice, Nalates!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:03 am 
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D'Lanor wrote:
No, that is not right. The upper sphere is the active one. This can be determined by watching the rotation from the skywalk. Have a player at a door lever in each sphere and let them make their spheres active in turn. Note that the yellow light indicates sphere 4.

Grogyan wrote:
I had always envisaged the top sphere to be the active sphere because the chair goes down not up or left or right, then you go forwards.


I thought that the active sphere was either in the left or right position. Not because of the chair, but because of the 'airlock' door.

There's only one imager/chair area in Ahnonay, not one in each sphere. (Unless this a bug or Dev shortcut, and not IC), if the active position was at the top or bottom, wouldn't we have to either climb up, or fall down to get there? :?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 4:33 am 
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www2 wrote:
if the active position was at the top or bottom, wouldn't we have to either climb up, or fall down to get there? :?

Kadish may have tricked people into believing that he could manipulate time but he sure could defy the laws of gravity. It should be obvious when you look at the spheres from the balcony. Their vertical orientation as seen from afar is the horizontal plane from the inside.

There is even a point where the chair rotates 90 degrees as it goes from one gravitational field to the other.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:38 am 
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www2 wrote:
I thought that the active sphere was either in the left or right position. Not because of the chair, but because of the 'airlock' door.

There's only one imager/chair area in Ahnonay, not one in each sphere. (Unless this a bug or Dev shortcut, and not IC), if the active position was at the top or bottom, wouldn't we have to either climb up, or fall down to get there? :?


IC the spheres all contain the maintenece area, but behind that airlock, you would stand behind what you can see the waterfall.

OOC what you would actually see is another sphere in front and below.

There is a lot of missing detail, particulary if you import the PotS Ahnonay to account for the airlock room, and scale of the spheres.

I would have liked for these small features be included, but alas they do not, which probably means that IC Kadish is teleporting people when they ride the chair.

Better yet, and I did submit a feature request on it in December of last year, to have it all within the same physical space and stop teleporting avatars.
The engine can handle the extra detail for Ahnonay easily, and proabably Gahreesen too.
Obviously this feature request was thrown out the window like all the others I have submitted.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:33 pm 
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D'Lanor wrote:
www2 wrote:
if the active position was at the top or bottom, wouldn't we have to either climb up, or fall down to get there? :?

Kadish may have tricked people into believing that he could manipulate time but he sure could defy the laws of gravity. It should be obvious when you look at the spheres from the balcony. Their vertical orientation as seen from afar is the horizontal plane from the inside.

There is even a point where the chair rotates 90 degrees as it goes from one gravitational field to the other.


So what you're saying is that when we're in the spheres we're really on our sides? I suspected that was the case as some things didn't make sense to me if we were straight up.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:09 pm 
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To add to the confusion, when you walk through the secret door from Maintenance Room 4, you walk on a platform and you can see a window showing the statue (which was behind you out the dock opening). Then you climb down a ladder to the chair. Where does the platform exist in the picture of the spheres? It's easy for me to imagine that the chair "car" goes horizontally through the large axis then down, but I don't see anything around the axis where the platform and ladders would exist. Doesn't the DRC have blueprints?


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