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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:29 pm 
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Obduction Backer

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I don't know if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but my avatars can't move the rocks in the Teledahn prison cell anymore. That is, the rocks can be moved a bit, but not far enough as the pressure plates. Either the rocks are now too heavy or the avatars are to light. Is the physics inadvertently changed? This makes Teledahn, as far as I can see, unsolvable [Edit2: With rocks that is].

Has anyone else experienced this physics behaviour?

EDIT: Ticketed.

EDIT2: As it turns out, solving the Teledahn prison cell with the large bone, the rib cage and the two baskets is possible but still cumbersome.

EDIT3: Changed the subject title to better reflect the content of the thread.


Last edited by Amon on Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:45 pm 
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Obduction Backer

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I did find, at one time, that the direction you approach the rocks makes a difference in your ability to push them vs. step up onto them (same with the firemarbles).... have you tried pushing from all "sides" to see if that makes a difference?

Also, I think it made a difference if I was walking at them vs. running into them at any given "pushable" angle... but not 100% sure on that one...


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:48 pm 
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Yes, I've tried walking, running, forwards, backwards and sideway. Nothing works. They move a little, then stops.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:56 pm 
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Obduction Backer

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L'lee is right on the money, the angle of attack seems to make a difference, as well as walking vrs running.

That being said, the rocks in Teledahn don't seem any different to me. :?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:10 pm 
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Obduction Backer

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I posted a ticket on this
Quote:
I spent a good long time trying to get the kickables onto the plates. as you can see from my two videos, I got this basket this far barefoot, then could not move it further. Then I went and got some shoes and tried it and got it just a little bit further before it refused to move again. It really should not take a half hour just to kick a few objects around the age. The Irritation factor is such that if I were just starting the game, I would simply link to someone's Teledahn that had it solved to go get the rest of the age. This has gotten to show-stopper level. Each build is just a little bit worse.

here is the response I got back:
Quote:
It helps if you jump as you are hitting the kickable object, I know it can be a pain but sadly our physics engine is doing its best.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:25 pm 
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That sounds incredibly hopeless.

One wonders if the money saved on the Havok license was really worth the time and trouble spent to replace it, the delays induced by the conversion, and the inestimable loss of a superior physics engine on game playability and the user experience. All that just for Mac support, which is now available anyway, and the initial or recurring expense. Grand mistake?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:33 pm 
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Obduction Backer

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Thanks for the info greypiffle.

After struggling with the kickables for quite a while, using different directions of appoach as recommended by L'lee and Tofer, I finally managed to get the kickables in place.

I have played through Teledahn dozens of times but never experienced the kickables this bad. To a new player this must be frustrating to the point of giving up.

Maybe the kickables should come with a manual? "Kickables can be kicked only if you find the proper direction of attack, preferrably while jumping" :shock:


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:51 pm 
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They seriously need to do a lot of work on the physics engine. Don't tell me I have to jump at just the right moment if I want to kick an object.

JWPlatt wrote:
That sounds incredibly hopeless.

One wonders if the money saved on the Havok license was really worth the time and trouble spent to replace it, the delays induced by the conversion, and the inestimable loss of a superior physics engine on game playability and the user experience. All that just for Mac support, which is now available anyway, and the initial or recurring expense. Grand mistake?


Havok was not that great either...

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:41 pm 
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PleasePleasePleasePleasePlease
Put in tickets yourselves... I'm under the impression that they think I'm the only one with the issue.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:49 pm 
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greypiffle wrote:
PleasePleasePleasePleasePlease
Put in tickets yourselves... I'm under the impression that they think I'm the only one with the issue.


That may be the case... I kind of gave up ticketing kickables long ago because it seemed like a lost cause. I think I'll go get some data and send off a couple of new tickets.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:29 pm 
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Herohtar wrote:
Havok was not that great either...

At least it behaved the same on all systems and did not require capping of the framerate to 30 fps.
I know that framerate is related to graphics, not physics but those two have to be linked somehow. The visual position of objects has to correspond with their physical position, right?

I am beginning to suspect that for example my inability to swim the Ahnonay current could be due to the fact that my framerate never goes above 20 fps.

Another example: for me Jalak shapes are heavier than for others (not tested yet in Live 8). I cannot move the long rectangles in walking mode. I have seen others do this with ease.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:31 pm 
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greypiffle wrote:
Put in tickets yourselves... I'm under the impression that they think I'm the only one with the issue.

Ticketed along with my initial post. No reply yet though.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 3:18 am 
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I just created a new avie tonight and found the kickables in Teledahn prison cell to be almost impossible to kick into place if I ran at them. My avie usually just ran right over the top of them. I tried different angles without much luck. Then I tried walking into them and it worked perfectly! It was so easy. I'll be curious to see if my avie is just amazingly strong (he is pretty buff if I do say so myself) or if everyone's avies have been spending time in the gym.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 3:26 am 
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Amon wrote:
I don't know if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but my avatars can't move the rocks in the Teledahn prison cell anymore. That is, the rocks can be moved a bit, but not far enough as the pressure plates. Either the rocks are now too heavy or the avatars are to light. Is the physics inadvertently changed? This makes Teledahn, as far as I can see, unsolvable.

Has anyone else experienced this physics behaviour?

While I have experienced this problem with most of the rocks I wouldn't say that Teledahn is unsolvable. Here is what I do - the rock next to plate 4 is close enough that it is easy to get on the plate. For plates 2 & 7 I kick baskets on to them - works fine. For plate 6 I use the ribcage that is next to it. Have to be careful cause a strong kick can send that ribcage flying. :lol:

So - yes there is a real problem with moving most of the rocks. But - Teledahn can be solved by simply using other objects.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:23 am 
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Kero wrote:
Teledahn can be solved by simply using other objects.

Yes, I agree with you in part. As it is, using the rocks takes loads of persistence and maybe a little luck to get it right.

With my three avatars the baskets behave in much the same manner as the rocks. Still, as the baskets are larger and thus move further during one rotation, they seem easier to get to the right pressure plate once they are on the move.

For both the rocks and the baskets, approaching them dead-on their center of gravity make them "stick" to the ground. A slightly angled approach and hitting them a bit to the side of their center of gravity is what seems to work best.

Moving the rib cage is fairly easy, too bad there is only one. Moving the smallest of the two bones is even worse than the rocks. However, the large bone is maybe the easiest of all the kickables.

Solving the Teledahn prison cell with the large bone, the rib cage and the two baskets is possible but still cumbersome.
Solving the prison cell with rocks only is to me now on par with the old "balcony jump". :roll:

As D'Lanor mentioned, there have been system related physics issues along the way. Maybe this is why we have somewhat different experiences with the kickables in the prison cell. :?


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