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 Post subject: Uru: A new start
PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:40 pm 
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Over the last few days, after installing Myst 3 again, I've started to become interested in the Myst series again. Eventually my mind wandered onto Uru. My mind settled on the thought for a fresh start for the game, that would open it 2 years after the cavern closed. Explorers are now venturing deep into the cavern, exploring its mysteries, dangers and wonders, writing and surveying new ages.

Now the new game would start out in the same location as Uru did, the Cleft. After either the Uru opening or MOUL opening (thinking Uru would fit better), the shot of the Volcano coming closer and closer appears, then there is a flash and the inside of a pickup truck, a messy dashboard with a little Myst-related bobble head on the front below an air fresher. The player's Avatar (now with improved customization) is sitting in the passenger seat. The driver, a fat, bearded New Mexican is driving you towards the gate of the fence that surrounds the Volcano. He comments of how many people he has to drop here all the time, each saying (the player themselves saying before the game takes place) that they felt called. The truck reaches the gate and the driver lets you out, the game switches to 3rd person which can be toggled to 1st person. The truck drives away, leaving the tracks we saw in the original Uru. The Player opens the gate and so begins the usual routine. Except its now been 2 years since the last time the Cavern was officially open and 6 years since it was first closed. Zandi, still sitting in his usual clothes, under his usual Trailer, has now lost a few pounds and gained a stubble. Happy to see another fresh face, he says his usual stuff before adding two more things. He points out that a group of Explorers came a while ago, cut open the barbed wire fence that blocked the Volcano originally. They have also added a small piece of Scaffolding to the rim of the Caldera. Finally Zandi give you a tattered old linking book. Inside is the the link to an ancient Native American pueblo, one the Pueblo's of the Amad, the Native American tribe that Keta, Gehn's wife and Atrus' late mother came from, whom were once in possession of advanced holographic technology. You now have three choices, begin Yeesha's Journey, journey down into D'ni or link to the Pueblo.

If you link to the Pueblo, after solving a set of intricate puzzles which are built in a secret chamber under the Pueblo, you will be able to use a hidden Bahro stone, which links to the ruins of Tomahna.

Alot I still haven't figured out yet. Alot of the real life logistics have not been taken into account, rather I've focused on the storyline.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:05 am 
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Because I've not played the original Uru games, I can't comment on whether this is better or not, but I REALLY like this idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Uru: A new start
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:11 pm 
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First, I'll note that there are lots of various ideas people have for new ways to begin the game, both for game purposes and for new story ideas. Most, if not all, are simply infeasible, as such a change - especially with large areas of new content (which would be intended to be especially good quality as it would include some of the first things people would see) - would be major.

But anyway, focusing on the story:
sarpedon2 wrote:
Now the new game would start out in the same location as Uru did, the Cleft. After either the Uru opening or MOUL opening (thinking Uru would fit better), the shot of the Volcano coming closer and closer appears, then there is a flash and the inside of a pickup truck, a messy dashboard with a little Myst-related bobble head on the front below an air fresher. The player's Avatar (now with improved customization) is sitting in the passenger seat. The driver, a fat, bearded New Mexican is driving you towards the gate of the fence that surrounds the Volcano. He comments of how many people he has to drop here all the time, each saying (the player themselves saying before the game takes place) that they felt called.

I'm not sure how necessary this scene is - and it would probably be a headache to implement (the new character who would have to be added in - voice, avatar, probably new animations for driving, and his position in canon [does he drop off everybody? did he drop off people before?] - there's the whole car scene [which graphically would not be much like anything in Uru - the camera angles and such]). The "feeling called" part is already covered by Zandi, although this would nicely explain how you got to the place (even for people dressed in horribly unsuitable clothes for just jogging out in the desert).

How about one of these:
1. As the beginning speech is made (whatever it is), the view pans through clouds or whatever to the desert where a car is seen driving across a dirt road from above. It turns off this road and then goes through the open desert where the camera pans to show the Volcano area coming closer. Then the game switches to the avatar standing in the Cleft as in Uru:ABM, but behind them is the sound (and, if they look, the visuals) of the car driving off.
2. The speech just pans over the desert (as in ABM originally, and I think in part of the MOUL intro too) and then shows the avatar as in idea 1, with the car seen driving into the distance.
3. The simplest to implement, of course, would just be to have the tire treads and assorted marks shown behind the avatar, with a small dust cloud in the distance (but no car models or animations needed), and a quiet sound as the car vanishes into the distance. This also lets people choose for themselves what transportation they arrived in. Maybe the starting view could be changed to show this more clearly.

Perhaps the avatar could have a temporary pamphlet in their inventory (just like the KI and Relto book slots - perhaps it could even be placed in one of those slots, and then removed when the person obtained the main thing [maybe the KI slot would be best - the pamphlet would serve to help people before they could communicate as well with the KI]) that would help explain the backstory more (published by the DRC or some other cavern group to tell people about the D'ni dig).

Quote:
The truck reaches the gate and the driver lets you out, the game switches to 3rd person which can be toggled to 1st person. The truck drives away, leaving the tracks we saw in the original Uru. The Player opens the gate and so begins the usual routine. Except its now been 2 years since the last time the Cavern was officially open and 6 years since it was first closed. Zandi, still sitting in his usual clothes, under his usual Trailer, has now lost a few pounds and gained a stubble.

That would look cool.
Quote:
Happy to see another fresh face, he says his usual stuff before adding two more things. He points out that a group of Explorers came a while ago, cut open the barbed wire fence that blocked the Volcano originally. They have also added a small piece of Scaffolding to the rim of the Caldera.

This is a popular suggested change, and I can definitely see why. I'd love to be able to go through the Descent all the way from the beginning. There might be some issues with licensing/modifying the Descent in EoA (or making something either very similar to it, or divergent) and adding in the later areas (but think of the puzzles that could be there).

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Finally Zandi give you a tattered old linking book. Inside is the the link to an ancient Native American pueblo, one the Pueblo's of the Amad, the Native American tribe that Keta, Gehn's wife and Atrus' late mother came from, whom were once in possession of advanced holographic technology. You now have three choices, begin Yeesha's Journey, journey down into D'ni or link to the Pueblo.

Ordinary linking books cannot link between two points in the same Age. The Relto book seems to be one contradiction to this rule (due to Yeesha bending or ignoring D'ni tradition in book writing, or due to powers or techniques learned from the bahro, or due to some other reason), as are bahro stones. Are you suggesting that Yeesha/the bahro made or helped make the book (why would it be tattered, then?)?
We don't really know much about the Amad, and I don't think even Cyan does (originally a mysterious people and possibly originally intended for a different area entirely). We don't know if they were a pueblo building people (they are obviously somehow passed over by history - they might have been nomadic, or stayed in very temporary shelters, or lived in places archaeologists wouldn't think of), or any other detail of that culture.
I personally think it would be best to leave them as a mystery - all stories need some unknown factors in the details. I think it would be a confusing addition of an old canon point so early on in Uru (people might begin thinking the whole story is about the Amad) - people who really knew the canon from Riven would recognize it, but most people wouldn't. Also, giving three separate directions to go at the beginning could be very confusing.

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If you link to the Pueblo, after solving a set of intricate puzzles which are built in a secret chamber under the Pueblo, you will be able to use a hidden Bahro stone, which links to the ruins of Tomahna.

I'm not sure where you are trying to go with this. Anyway, I'm fairly sure adding in Tomahna would be quite infeasible (adding in a new interpretation of an old place, avoiding any claims that Ubisoft would have over their design if we copied from that...). What is there in Tomahna that we must have, especially so early in the game?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:00 pm 
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Perhaps the avatar could have a temporary pamphlet in their inventory (just like the KI and Relto book slots - perhaps it could even be placed in one of those slots, and then removed when the person obtained the main thing [maybe the KI slot would be best - the pamphlet would serve to help people before they could communicate as well with the KI]) that would help explain the backstory more (published by the DRC or some other cavern group to tell people about the D'ni dig).


I never really liked the whole pamphlet thing. I think D'ni should come in somewhat a surprise. Let the players find out where they is going, what is D'ni and what is the DRC.

The thing I really liked about the Myst games is that it really felt as your adventure. Accept for the zipmode there are no shortcuts. If you want to go back to j'nanin from amateria, you don't just link to relto anytime you want- you have to find the book to j'nanin. If you want to talk with atrus, you don't just open your KI and text him- you have to activate the crystal viewer. Sure it makes things a bit annoying sometimes, but you always felt you are really exploring and moving around. Everything fitted in the story so well.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:52 pm 
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The stranger wrote:
I never really liked the whole pamphlet thing. I think D'ni should come in somewhat a surprise. Let the players find out where they is going, what is D'ni and what is the DRC.

Yeah, we've got to be careful to be mysterious but understandable at the beginning. Mystery is... well, what makes it Myst-like. Understandability is crucial because:
- The avatars/characters would know some things about what was happening (for example, that the D'niverse is connected to the "real life" world rather than some completely arbitrary fantasy world).
- We don't want players to feel frustratingly lost, especially people who haven't gotten used to the Myst/Uru formula of just exploring.

A pamphlet would be one way to help make the beginning more smoothly understandable. Not an essay on D'ni or anything, just a bit of "how to get started" in an IC manner.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:23 am 
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Funny thought, the pamphlet could come with a revized version fo the intro that showed up in the Ages Beyond Myst manual.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:37 pm 
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Quote:
- We don't want players to feel frustratingly lost, especially people who haven't gotten used to the Myst/Uru formula of just exploring.
]

Actually I think that if the first goal is to go to the caldera and down to the tunnels, it wouldn't be so frustrating. It's a pretty obvious path, obvious yet highly explorable. Maybe there can be a hint of this goal (entering the caldera) at the intro?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:17 pm 
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I agree, there needs to be a 'new beginning'.

Through Uru and its expansions, everything felt... toned down. Probably because it was intended to be an mmo, so seeing other explorers running around would have given it a more lively feeling.

I never really felt excited while playing, and it just felt.. dead and tbh, rather pointless.

My suggestions: Uru needs a new central plot. Yeesha's spiritual yammering got really annoying, and I missed the days where you were busy rescuing Releeshahn from a half-crazed Narayan, or foiling Sirrus & Achenar's plans. All the stuff about 'the grower' and the tree, and the half-baked spiritual journey of self-discovery Yeesha sets you on, all feels like a massive diversion.

Anyways, if a nice new mod does end up being made, it should be for single-player digestion.

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I'm not sure where you are trying to go with this. Anyway, I'm fairly sure adding in Tomahna would be quite infeasible (adding in a new interpretation of an old place, avoiding any claims that Ubisoft would have over their design if we copied from that...). What is there in Tomahna that we must have, especially so early in the game?


If you're modeling all of Tomahna yourself, its allowed. You just have to make it clear that you modeled it, and give proper credit for the concept/design of Tomahna. Also, you're not allowed to use it for profit.

Unless I misunderstood the OP and he's talking about a new, official game, rather than a community mod.

Well for one, there might be a linking book to Serenia, unless the DRC removed it and have it being kept safe in their main camp while DRC members keep watch over Atrus's old homestead. I was thinking of recreating Tomahna, and I was going to put in a memorial for Sirrus and Achenar infront of the chamber where the prison ages are (now) sealed (remember the big door from Myst IV that Atrus hadn't got around to installing).

It would have the statue he carved in Spire of the scene from the family portrait hanging above faux-fireplace in Atrus & Catherine's bedroom, along with some of their journals, and a short (good-bye) journal by Atrus. There would be a few other things, but I haven't thought of them yet.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:47 pm 
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Mekeretrig, that would be pretty neat. I've not experienced any edition of Uru (yet!), so I can't speak to how that would work in Uru, but wow... I always love the nostalgic parts of the Myst games. I loved the nod to Riven in Exile, the flashbacks to Exile in Revelation, and sheer scope of throwbacks in End of Ages was staggering!

So yeah, visiting Tohmana again would be awesome, 'specially in realtime. Though I personally would love to see it go beyond the "this is a throwback" thing and actually include a puzzle. Two of my favorite moments from the Myst series are:

1. Discovering that all of Tohmana in Revelation was behind the door Catherine stopped you from trying in Exile. (I felt major triumph then... "Take that, Catherine! Tried to keep me from exploring, ha!")

2. The clever, clever puzzle to enter Rime in realMyst. That just blew me away with how well Cyan put clues in an existing area. I'd love to see something similar done to Tohmana.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:06 pm 
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Right now I'm taking a horde of screenshots of Tomahna. I'm starting with the platform outside of Atrus's lab. It will be tough getting the scales and details down properly, but I'll start hammering out some relatively clear designs soon for parts of Tomahna.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:24 pm 
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Quote:
Uru needs a new central plot. Yeesha's spiritual yammering got really annoying, and I missed the days where you were busy rescuing Releeshahn from a half-crazed Narayan, or foiling Sirrus & Achenar's plans. All the stuff about 'the grower' and the tree, and the half-baked spiritual journey of self-discovery Yeesha sets you on, all feels like a massive diversion.


I partly agree. Not everything was bad with Yeesha and The Grower. I think the problem was that it was too different from the Myst games. It was too mystic (yeah I know there was serenia, but that fitted in the whole game very well because we were told Catherine's ages are strange, and we also got a scientific-ish view on the age). What bothered me most is all the rule breaking. I didn't care for small things like books linking to moving buildings, but books which link you to the same age or books that follow you as you link are just too strange.

People usually see Yeesha (The Grower stuff) as the source of all evil, probably because she looks and talks differently- she is all cryptic and she has a huge tattoo all over her face. Well first, if I'm not wrong, this strange Yeesha was already hinted way back in Myst the Book of D'ni, where it was said: "4 weman... (it goes to Tasera\Anna\Keta and Catherine)...the 4th, a teacher". Yeesha was identified as a teacher. So Yeesha's character didn't come out of the blue when they made Uru (as most people think). Her tattoo and cryptic talking isn't bad- it's just that not enough backstory was given, people didn't understand what drove this little nice girl to such a crazy women, and so they hated her. So I can accept a cryptic and tattooed Yeesha, however a few changes are needed: 1) she has to be a bit less cryptic, 2) more backstory on her, 3) she's got to have a more normal clothes, 4) The Grower story can stay as long as there is no more Art rules breaking involved.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:50 pm 
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1) she has to be a bit less cryptic
2) more backstory on her
3) she's got to have a more normal clothes
4) The Grower story can stay as long as there is no more Art rules breaking involved


Definitely.

1. She needs to have more character. In Myst V she was more depressing than a deaf blind Jewish boy's crippled puppy getting cancer and dying in Auschwitz. She didn't change much in Uru, besides not looking like a 97 year old anymore.

2. She should wear D'ni clothes. Now that I've had more time to play the games, I like the original stlyes much better.

3. Definitely no more rule breaking. I know it was partly incorporated so that transitions in Uru and its expansions would be easier and make more sense, but the whole Grower (AKA D'ni Jesus) thing is getting old.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:57 pm 
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The stranger wrote:
Quote:
- We don't want players to feel frustratingly lost, especially people who haven't gotten used to the Myst/Uru formula of just exploring.
]

Actually I think that if the first goal is to go to the caldera and down to the tunnels, it wouldn't be so frustrating. It's a pretty obvious path, obvious yet highly explorable. Maybe there can be a hint of this goal (entering the caldera) at the intro?

I agree. I think the intro could easily show this just by panning over the caldera and showing the scaffolding or whatever is there.

Quote:
"Take that, Catherine! Tried to keep me from exploring, ha!"

:lol: I had the exact same reaction.

Quote:
I think the problem was that it was too different from the Myst games. It was too mystic (yeah I know there was serenia, but that fitted in the whole game very well because we were told Catherine's ages are strange, and we also got a scientific-ish view on the age).

I think there was also a problem with the so entirely mundane side that the DRC and company had - a little too boring and realistic at some points. Instead of the nice medium that the Myst series had, we had both extremes to some degree. It was a little overwhelming, I think.

Quote:
So I can accept a cryptic and tattooed Yeesha, however a few changes are needed: 1) she has to be a bit less cryptic, 2) more backstory on her, 3) she's got to have a more normal clothes, 4) The Grower story can stay as long as there is no more Art rules breaking involved.

1) Definitely. There was some nice poetic bits in Yeesha's speeches, and some mystery was good, but at some points it just seemed a little overboard. Yeesha should be trying to be productive, and she should know that being totally cryptic doesn't help.
3) I don't exactly mind her clothes - she is from basically an alien culture with its own clothing styles, and she's been around the Native Americans and other more different cultures in D'ni Ages most likely, so it's understandable that she's not dressing like we'd consider normal. I would like a few more D'ni (in art, in recordings, in person) to make the jump in styles a little less abrupt.
4) Yeah. I'm quite fine with her being a powerful writer and person and all that, but I'd rather that it be possible that she's getting this power from natural means (or else her power sort of confuses up the plot and drama). I'm actually okay with almost every power shown (in Uru), as long as there are alternate interpretations of what exactly is behind it.
Examples of alternate explanations I would like:
[spoiler]
- Linking books that travel with you: The D'ni just made books like that. They didn't want books that travel with you, because then the book is useless, so they developed their Art in such a way that it just wouldn't do so. By regulation, tradition, custom, whatever, this just became every book (because that was how books were made). The bahro deal with the Art from a different direction (due to their knowledge of how things were back then, due to their own primitive style of the Art that they originally had when they met with the D'ni, or due to some other means). That's why bahro stones are cloths stuck on stones - the bahro are making sure the book (which is written or woven on one plain cloth) doesn't accidentally stick to you and travel through (based on the everything-that-moves-when-you-do general rule)! That's also why they don't leave artifacts behind when they link out - the book (that they have built into their shoulders), links with them.
- Journey cloths and the addition of books: Yeesha is allied with at least some of the bahro. She also gives you your Relto books. The bahro can watch over each individual explorer she's picked and note what Ages they go to and what journey cloths they touch. They then replace the books accordingly, using alternate links to Relto.
- The special effects of things like the Shell link in To D'ni and the end of PotS: Lots and lots of bahro with lots of linking books prepared in advance, as well as lots of resources... they can do a lot. The bahro are more impacted by such ceremonial/metaphorical ways (just due to their culture, which emphasizes that), and for them the events are much more major (explorers caring for them, people who can freely go through the D'ni Ages who are telling them to be free and to be their own people, etc.).
- Linking within the same Age: Other than Relto, should be avoided. Relto makes it somewhat necessary, so I'm going with the bahro explanation (with so many bahro and so few explorers, the bahro can easily adapt to such a symbiotic relationship). Bahro grabs you and links out and back into Relto (links to an Age with a book to Relto right there, so it all happens in the blink of an eye).[/spoiler][/spoiler]


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:49 pm 
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Tweaked some of the ideas in my original post:

The Native American tribe that inhabited the pueblo are not named, I just added the Amad name for anyone to know what it is. The technology that left behind is more advanced than that of other tribes, but not as advanced as D'ni tech.

The link to the pueblo and its link to Tomahna do not have a major impact on the new storyline as in the Tomahna ruins, there are still abandoned journals by Atrus which fills in the gaps about what happened after Myst IV and include date of Catherine's death and the reason for Yeesha leaving and the abandonment of Tomahna to the elements as well as Atrus' feelings as he gets older. DRC notebooks have also be left behind, detailing their examination of the ruins. The journals are dated around about 2000, when the DRC discovered Tomahna. However there are also recent journals left behind, hinting that the DRC are still around.

I've also just written some dialogue for the Driver. He works at the DRC offices, who while they are not willing to continue the restoration, are happy to allow explorers out towards the Cleft. He was also the driver who took explorers out during the original and last restoration.

Once again I have not taken into the account copyright & logistical challenges. I have merely wrote this to present a new storyline that bring a new direction to Uru.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:12 pm 
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You might want to add your current ideas to the group of suggestions at OpenUru.org.

They have discussed keeping to canon, how to work around it and what might or might not be possible depending on Cyan’s license. Plus other ideas and problems. They have a wiki section too.

Community Portal @ OpenUru.org – plans boiled down from forum discussions

Other Ideas
Where to Begin (The Game) – forum post
Community Project: The Great Shaft – forum post
Concept art for Open Source Uru New stuff for the Cleft (added realism) – forum page – images not showing, spoilers not working (sarpedon2 thread I think - forum move apparently broke it)
Cleaning Up Instancing – forum post

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