It is currently Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:05 am

All times are UTC




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 272 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 ... 19  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:26 pm
Posts: 557
"Shields" might not be the pot-stirring forum troll that he appears.

But I doubt it.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 11:55 pm
Posts: 3933
Location: Not Canada
Shields wrote:
First I'll take care of the insults:

Quote:
There is no ignorance like willful ignorance. It is a condition with no cure.


Quote:
There is none so blind as he that will not see.


Translated: You are not only stupid, but intentionally so.

Once again you prove yourselves immature with cheap shots. Good job.



Just looking at this, it seems to me that both of you are insulting the other. Now your insults may have merit, but there is always a better way of presenting criticism than the insult.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:37 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 3:52 pm
Posts: 295
tkwiggins wrote:
"Shields" might not be the pot-stirring forum troll that he appears.

But I doubt it.

:lol:

Well, anyway this thread has strengthened my love for Uru and the next Live.

_________________
Morningstar - KI#1053460
Please avoid drinking the lake water.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 11:27 pm
Posts: 963
neosource wrote:
Hey what happened to picking on Yeesha? All of a sudden poor shields is getting the "Great Shaft."


I'd stick up for Shields if he wasn't being a hypocrite. He's taken to calling everyone immature after he took his new "siggie"... He has no ground to stand on. He has no right to play the victim.

To be honest, though, I don't have anything against him, and I'll respect that he doesn't like Uru's story, but saying that it's "nonsense" is simply not a valid standpoint. Saying that Yeesha is just "blabbering" is also absolutely untrue.

I also don't have a problem with him using my comment in his signature because I stand by what I said. I really don't even understand why he finds it worthy to be his signature. Does he agree with me? I don't get it.

... and I seriously and truly wish he would toss us one suggestion... ...one complete idea.

neosource wrote:
I beg to differ... he's established & stimulated a 7 page discussion/debate(thus far) thread and has probably said the least of all of us!! C'mon you gotta' give him credit for that now Joey.


I stated what I think of this overly long topic about absolutely nothing. Everytime I come across a topic like this in a forum I know that it's just a lot of senseless bickering with no substance. There's very little redeeming worth in this thread beyond the two suggestions made.

neosource wrote:
URU is sure full of something all right...just not something I can say without getting into trouble! :wink: Just couldn't resist. Oh there is certainly a story & plot in existence... that can't be denied...but what can be denied is the degree of strength that this story/plot possesses.


Your criterion is lacking.

neosource wrote:
What cannot be denied is that MYST & RIVEN were extremely successful games for CYAN & that URU was a failure for CYAN & MYST V was no-where near as successful as RIVEN or MYST. Just on that basis alone (for Marantos) there is proof that "something" is not all there for MYST V & URU…


Not so. Morningstar is right. Commerical success is not an indisputable measure of quality. Furthermore, the financial reasons that Uru was not initially successful seem entirely circumstantial and unrelated to Uru's story. This is not proof of anything.

neosource wrote:
To your comment on the Yeesha quote I used Joey...I already explained what the purpose of doing so was...so I’ll just repost that for you...

"…I simply took one quote from Yeesha & threw it up there for an example of what can be interpreted as "philosophical blabbering"...there are a ton of her quotes that have this way of writing to them. The point was not to start expanding, justifying and explaining what she meant by that statement...the point is that we can understand exactly what she says...but at a certain point it is completely overdone & can fit the terminology "philosophical blabbering" quite well...at least for me & others…"


The definition you've created for "philosophical blabbering" stems from nothing more than an inability to grasp figurative language. The quote Yeesha made was very direct, and has a set purpose. Calling it "blabbering" of any sort is not a valid viewpoint. This is the point I made. Instead of reposting it, I just reworded it.

Yeesha's words and speeches are also incredibly well-written and well performed. They're my favorite part of Uru...

Shields wrote:
What happens when someone completes the journey? Nothing. More blabbering without purpose or meaning.


You release a Bah'ro.

You see the beginning meet with the end. You see the work of a corrupt nut, a fraud who creates the illusion of time travel tied to the genuine work of Atrus and Yeesha, who are trying to set things right... trying to break the cycle of corruption. Will they succeed? ...or will the "path of the shell" continue? Will this "restoration" end up in the same madness and corruption?

(...that's how I saw it anyways.)

Shields wrote:
I do not buy tutorials. Uru Prime was packaged as a complete game. If you do not agree with that I suggest you go read the original box. It looks like a full game that continues online, and yet you say it is a tutorial. Which is it?


You bought what you bought. You fail to appreciate it for what it is. Something different. Something new.

I'd say you bought a world. It's what Cyan makes and I think they're great for it.

Envie wrote:
Uru was boxed and sold for 40 bucks the way most online games are. You pay that same price for World of Warcraft, Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot or whatever, and you don't even get the single player option in those games!


This is an incredibly good point. I've never played these games and don't really know what they are though, or how they went about working this online stuff out.

Shields wrote:
Final Word: People keep claiming I made the initial post without any ground for my statements, yet look how many replies this thread has. If I had made "The Offical Uru Sucks" thread, I would have recieved hardly any. The popularity of this thread is a testament to the fact that the point in my intitial post drove home even though I did not give any examples.


Yet you want to have a final word. You want it to stop. You overestimate your contributions. People have spent several pages of text showing you that your claims were groundless.

We have all failed. We have accomplished nothing. :wink:

I still would like to hear your suggestion(s). C'mon, there has to be something. This goes for Neosource too.

Envie wrote:
Solving the puzzles and ages in Uru is like a TUTORIAL


I disagree. For example... Look at Kadish Tolesa... You continuously solve puzzle after puzzle... moving slowly through this ridiculous path full of obstacles almost greedily seeking what's at the end... ...and for what... what's at the other end? ...a dead fool and his money. This is a story, and a great one, which ties in with the greater scope of Uru. Uru is full of complete stories that tie to a greater story which hasn't yet been realized.


~Joey Talkingtomuch

_________________
"What you still don't understand you have failed to hear or don't need to know..."~Yeesha


Last edited by Joey Zoonishii on Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:30 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 7:46 am
Posts: 48
Location: Austin, TX
Joey Zoonishii wrote:
Envie wrote:
Uru was boxed and sold for 40 bucks the way most online games are. You pay that same price for World of Warcraft, Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot or whatever, and you don't even get the single player option in those games!


This is an incredibly good point. I've never played these games and don't really know what they are though, or how they went about working this online stuff out.



Well it's an even better point to someone who's an avid MMORPG subscriber like myself. This guy comes into the suggestion forum with all sorts of accusations that the story is 'flat' and that that he didn't think he got his money's worth and could they make a better story next go-round, but gives no real suggestions or ideas to support. This is a suggestion forum I believe.

The way games like EQ and WoW and others work is, you pay the 40 bucks for the box and the CD key, basically. You install the directory files, the client side stuff, and then you go online and create an account, which you pay 15 bucks a month to play. You then download all the current patches and content. Once logged on, you start with a level 1 character who is free to explore the vast world, quest and group with others to kill monsters and gain gold and treasure.

There -is- no story outside of the world you log into... it's up to you to roleplay or not, or to read the quest text and storyline or not when you're in the game. There's no offline version whatsoever.

Cyan, on the other hand, has given you a fairly nice single player game, with the added ability to go online and play more with others, though not as complex as the MMORPG worlds of Blizzard of SOE. I believe you're getting a great deal for that 40 bucks and GameTap is only going to be 10 bucks a month PLUS you get all the other games they offer too. That's a steal!

I think some people doth protest too much.

_________________
~Envie
KI: 02127837


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:29 am 
Quote:
Shields wrote:

The popularity of this thread is a testament to the fact that the point in my intitial post drove home even though I did not give any examples.


No, the length of this thread (I wouldn't call it popular) is a testament to the fact that most of the people involved have been prepared to invest huge amounts of effort trying to find out what the point of your initial post was. We still don't know; apart from the fact, as several of us have noted, that you don't like the game, and neosource and JWPlatt to some extent agree with you, we're none the wiser as to what any of you actually and specifically want from Uru. You've had eight pages of our undivided attention, and said nothing that you didn't say in your original message. Give us an example. A hint. A suggestion. Something. Or if you have made all the point you have to make, please leave it at that so that we can move on to something more positive.


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Still Ranting?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 6:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 12:18 am
Posts: 57
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
I for one have given up on this thread ever being truly coherent. Every time someone actually says something other than 'yeah, it was a bit of expletive, wasn't it?', we get three other people responding point for point why they're wrong, which in turn begets more 'I said it's expletive, and it's still expletive, and you're idiots for arguing with me'.

This in turn leads to name calling, finger pointing, grandstanding, some vaguely trollish counter-posting from certain clever posters whose entire posting history seems to have taken place on this one thread *hint hint*, and the only intelligent comments made have been 'well, if you have a better idea, let's hear it, Hemmingway', and 'if URU Live proves to be good, it'll be because of threads like this'.

Well, the first is a waste of time, because the author of this thread has nothing to offer. If I had an ignore function on this forum, I'd have blocked him by now. I can't read his rants anymore because they hurt my head, like walking into an invisible wall might. My eyes swim across them like murky water. That's the last I will say of it.

The other point is almost valid. However, not in this thread. If any Cyantists wander into this thread, they will turn around and leave long before they ever learn anything about the quality and quantity of storytelling we are hoping for.

Now, I've already read one or two very hopeful threads on this forum section, asking for fun plot-related things like new NPC nemeses and explorable Reltos and such, as well as the burning debate over whether or not n00bs should be permitted to create ages using proprietary in-game software, or whether that clubhouse should remained members-only for the 3D Experts, who dream of being game devs themselves someday. However, for the most part, we've had idle speculations, wish lists for fun Myst-related MMO toys, and a handful of 'how about not sucking' threads like this one.

Me? I'm done. Nobody's listening to each other in here anymore, except to find more ammo for their next salvo. Unlike some, I find this neither informative nor helpful to the devs, and it's not even fun.

Thanks for reading. Could somebody please get the lights on the way out?

_________________
Lee Edward McIlmoyle
Adventure Game Devotee at large


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 48
Quote:
This in turn leads to name calling, finger pointing, grandstanding, some vaguely trollish counter-posting from certain clever posters whose entire posting history seems to have taken place on this one thread *hint hint*


Quote:
Well, the first is a waste of time, because the author of this thread has nothing to offer. If I had an ignore function on this forum, I'd have blocked him by now.


Once again you contradict yourself. First you say (correctly) that most if not all of my posts are in this thread, then you say you'd block my posts if you could. If this thread is s*** and it's rubbish and I only post in here then why do you even come back?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:56 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 12:11 am
Posts: 2633
can we watch the language please, the myst community is considered a family community.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:12 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 3:52 pm
Posts: 295
Shields wrote:
Once again you contradict yourself.

Once again your post doesn't say anything at all. :roll:
Bye.

_________________
Morningstar - KI#1053460
Please avoid drinking the lake water.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 10:29 pm
Posts: 46
Ahh me...go away for a weekend and just look at all the fun I missed :roll: heh

@ Morningstar

You cannot blame the different commercial success of games that were published 10 years apart in entirely different contexts only on the structure or the story of the games themselves.
Gamers have changed in these years, tastes have, the game market has.
Blaming it all on the different structure of Uru and EoA, comparing them to Myst and Riven, is a bit of a stretch.


Ummm I'm not trying to stretch anything here...if that's the way you interpret it than fine.... who said anything about blaming commercial success? I certainly didn't. I simply said that it cannot be denied that for CYAN - MYST & RIVEN were successful and URU/URU Live were failures and MYST V wasn't anywhere near as successful as MYST & RIVEN. Those are facts! A hit game constitues several elements that need to be put together and regardless of time period if a game is a hit...a game has undeniable elements present. One of which is story.

P.S. JWPlatt, while I agree that these discussions are constructive, if done the right way, I'm sure that Live would have a "gripping storyline", even if we hadn't made this thread.

Not that I am determined to say that URU Live will not succeed...because I actually hope it does! I look forward to seeing a great entity like CYAN improve and be able to free themsleves up to create something "RIVEN" caliber again...however it has to be said Morningstar... based on this comment... you are BLINDLY saying that it will have a "gripping storyline" without even experiencing it yet! Which also shows an unwillingness to accept other perspectives apart from your own. i.e. That the story may very well have weaknesses....it may also have strengths. I think I am more willing to accept the fact that it will have strengths than you are to accept that it may have weaknesses. rusty russell said something good:

It's barely started. Stay with Live and you might see what URU was for and what Yeesha meant when she said about the reward shirt that wearing it would show what side you're on when sides are taken. Only when we've had the whole thing can you judge URU's story.

He's got a point here but that doesn't also mean that we aren't able to suggest things based on the past. So let's keep an open mind EITHER WAY! Life is a balance in everything and so it should be no different here. I wonder how much of what you say is simply defensiveness yielding a lack or wall against hearing any criticism that might exist. I think everyone in this forum is a MYST or maybe its better to say CYAN fan. We're here because we have experienced all the games (hopefully) and coming from that experience yes there are certainly differences in the games themselves (even people suggesting that some are games and some can't even be considered games - which is an interesting notion to ponder on but at the end of the day the classification of all these... are games!). Point is... in knowing we are all passionate about these games its interesting to see how we are divided. Some of it is because people's views are that it can be nothing but good, some people's views are it can be nothing but bad... but I think a realistic/practical approach would be wise to take...knowing that the first URU/URU Live may have had some strengths but it may also have had weaknesses. I for one can see a lot of weaknesses so of course I'm going to tushie heads however I'm willing to listen to you.

@hogarth

Does anyone in this strong story change, or grow? Are there any great themes in this story? Do we come away from this story with a new understanding or insight into the human condition?

While I am inclined to agree with almost all of your post which I enjoyed reading very much...I'm not so sure I agree with this last take on the story. I just need to accent the point of how we the player are effected and how I think the story is deeper and less superficial than what you make it out to be. So to answer the first question... we "the player" change by playing it and can come away from it with new insight....from puzzle logic to actual life-styles...moral choices/issues/culture/moods. Per the characters...you see Atrus work through his dilemma(s)...first imprisoning his own sons then thinking about freeing them in REVELATION. That's a change. You see Sirrus pretty much for the most part remain the bad egg however Achenar changes in quite a noble way in REVELATION. Saveedro is an interesting psychotic whose madness can be learned about throughout the game and the player can also see changes in based on choices. We learn about vengeance in this game (or can learn about it and why it is not good and also what may drive someone's vengeance). Atrus & his father are in conflict in RIVEN...there are rebels and servants of Gehn...a lot of dividedness....Gehn is willing to not only kill you but kill his own son and whomever else stands in his way so that he can be a god. I couldn't believe the first time I saw Gehn shoot Atrus saying "You were never my son" or something to this effect. It was quite poignant I thought. Falling through the fissure and hearing the end story is and utterly fantastic"experience" as well. There's more to it Hogarth than meets the eye. I understand your frustration with the bickering and what not but maybe eventually we'll have some break throughs! :?: All I know is that to make a great game it has to have several ingredients...and story is one of them.

@ Envie:

Hi Envie...I have enjoyed reading all of your posts. You offer a great perspective and good temperance! I'm just going to comment on one area that I've been mulling over:

Uru is a -modern- companion to the Myst worlds that allows us, the common guys, to be included into the evolving storyline and plot. It's not meant to stand alone or be "solved" in a few play sessions.

Solving the puzzles and ages in Uru is like a TUTORIAL, I said this before. Pointing out it's flat and unfinished is like saying kindergarten just didn't give you enough education to get into college...


The concern is that URU & URU Live failed thus bankrupting our beloved CYAN. We can also see a continuation of URU's story and likeness in MYST V which did not do so hot either. Why am I saying this???... because as suggestions... while we cannot fully "get into college" yet with this new URU Live if you will... we can view our past experiences and raise concerns or obvious areas that need work. If some of us are more blunt than others...we need to also appreciate that not everyone has the strength, time or stamina to spend writing lengthy posts either! Speaking of which... my time is running out! Yeah right... :P

@Maratanos

Shields: Just because UU has horrible lag doesn't mean UL2 will. Just becuase UABM had a horrible plot (in your opinion) doesn't mean UL2 will. Like someone said earlier, "You can't compare Riven to Uru," you really can't compare UABM or UU to UL2, because you simply don't know enough about UL2 for you to be able to say anything significant about its engine or its plot.

Might these points be taken as suggestions to hopefully improve upon in UL2? I've mentioned this already but let's not get too carried away into forgetting about all the troubles & problems URU/URU Live had originally...that is... enough problems to raise concerns & points of doubt for prospective players....and let's also keep in mind that areas of weaknesses may also be improved upon.

@ Joey

To be honest, though, I don't have anything against him, and I'll respect that he doesn't like Uru's story, but saying that it's "nonsense" is simply not a valid standpoint. Saying that Yeesha is just "blabbering" is also absolutely untrue.

Look at it this way...people's opinion's vary. Some of which are based on fact and some of which are based on overall subjective gaming experience. Personally...I agree that Yeesha does a lot of blabbering and have explained how her writings/comments can be perceived that way. I also expressed the view that I understand its context as well as its poetic attempts...but as an opinion I think it is overdone and borders nonsensical supposed wisdom in URU. Therein lies a hope that this may be identified and won't be as prominent in UL2. There was certainly less of it in MYST V...so I think that was a start (but then again it was a very short game heh). You may not agree with our views on this and that's fine...however people with our views exist and I know people with your views exist...so the point is to stay fair & balanced.

I stated what I think of this overly long topic about absolutely nothing. Everytime I come across a topic like this in a forum I know that it's just a lot of senseless bickering with no substance. There's very little redeeming worth in this thread beyond the two suggestions made.

Hey...if those two suggestions actually find their way into the game...I don't care if it takes 100 pages. Again your opinion and take on this is not the only one in existence. I do agree that the bickering is a bit much but alas I've been through enough bickering now to know that it goes with the territory of speaking your mind...as I think you are also learning! :wink:

Your criterion is lacking.

If that's what you think oh well. :oops:

Not so. Morningstar is right. Commerical success is not an indisputable measure of quality. Furthermore, the financial reasons that Uru was not initially successful seem entirely circumstantial and unrelated to Uru's story. This is not proof of anything.

Scroll up to my response to Morningstar on this. Also... you have to take URU's failure and look at it as a whole. Every part of it...including story. The proof is in the pudding and story is a part of URU's pudding as well as ANY GAME'S PUDDING. The repercussions of URU's story can also be seen in MYST V whose story of Bahro was also lacking (in my opinion and many other's as well). MYST V is further proof of URU's weakness in story. You can either choose to think about what I say (and that's all..just think about it...you don;t even have to accept it) or bury your head in the sand and say how wonderful URU's story is from start to finish but it flopped because of any other reason you can think of other than story. DO whatever you want...it's a free country!

The definition you've created for "philosophical blabbering" stems from nothing more than an inability to grasp figurative language. The quote Yeesha made was very direct, and has a set purpose. Calling it "blabbering" of any sort is not a valid viewpoint.

Look at your reaction. You ask for examples of how it can be construed as "philosphical blabbering" and you simply dismiss it because you don't like it. I've mentioned quite a few times that I grasp the figurative language regardless of what you think. There are many other much more profound books of literature and wisdom that I am more than well-versed in that also go well beyond Yeesha's speech. I don't need you to tell me if I am able or unable to grasp it when I know I probably grasp it even better than you do!! :wink: heh. The view point is that this "blabbering" is overdone and can be construed from those opposing your viewpoint as nonsenical or overbearing, or blabbering etc. Your inability (to return the favor)....can be seen in being unable to grasp other people's view points and that they are merely opinions. Your ability is to become highly defensive and dismiss any opposing view from your own.

@zander

No, the length of this thread (I wouldn't call it popular) is a testament to the fact that most of the people involved have been prepared to invest huge amounts of effort trying to find out what the point of your initial post was.

SPeak for yourself please. That's not why I am here which I have already mentioned....not only do I understand the original point but reading back through the posts I think others have written for different purposes and are beginning to see the point whther they like it or not.

Also...I think "popular" can be an opinion as well. People looking at this thread with no bias but just from a statistical point of view will see it as quite lively/active. Its currently pretty heated in here, active & engaging even if a lot of it is bickering :P - I would say that this is enough to make it pretty popular....you can put your own spin on whether it is therefore good, bad, pointless, useless etc. Point is... people are a' postin' & a viewin' & I'm seeing some interesting points arise even through all the weeds of confusion/bickering.

@Lee in Limbo[b]

[b]This in turn leads to name calling, finger pointing, grandstanding, some vaguely trollish counter-posting from certain clever posters whose entire posting history seems to have taken place on this one thread *hint hint*, and the only intelligent comments made have been 'well, if you have a better idea, let's hear it, Hemmingway', and 'if URU Live proves to be good, it'll be because of threads like this'..."

"...Thanks for reading. Could somebody please get the lights on the way out?"


It's kinda funny but I would say even moreso mouth dropping.... to hear this coming from you as you went straight for my jugular upon my deciding to enter the discussion... immediately pouncing on my every word hurling insults, stamping your feet and being slanderous. So Mr. Lee in Limbo...you can get the lights yourself and don't let the door hit you on the way out. I for one won't miss you at all! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

_________________
An amateure practices 'til he gets it right, a professional practices 'til he can't get it wrong!


Last edited by neosource on Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:47 am, edited 5 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:49 am 
Offline
Creative Kingdoms

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 6231
Location: Everywhere, all at once
Morningstar and propagated by neosource wrote:
P.S. JWPlatt, while I agree that these discussions are constructive, if done the right way, I'm sure that Live would have a "gripping storyline", even if we hadn't made this thread.

Neo,

Your post was lengthy, and I've fairly well said what I set out to say here, so I'll just stick to correcting the record about my own words.


Straight ahead to Morningstar,

I'm not sure where you picked up "gripping storyline," but I don't think I used those words as is implied by your quote. I try to stay away from such cliched, movie-reviewer phrases.

Also, in my post you allude to, I intentionally avoided the conceit that "this thread [sic]" (your words attributed to me) has any relevance beyond itself, or to Cyan. I actually said "discussions like this" because I expect that if there are enough discussions about a particular topic, whether here or anywhere else, whether electronic or verbal, someone at Cyan is eventually going to hear about it. They are anything but out of touch. And I agree with all that world-class talent under one roof, Cyan is quite capable, without our criticisms, of the sort of creativity that most of us could never achieve ourselves.

This was my quote, for the record:

JWPlatt wrote:
I hope to be able to say, when Uru Live begins, "Oh, geez, if Cyan had told me it was going to be like this, I'd have stopped screaming about it a long, long time ago!"

Odds are, if we actually get what we want and enjoy, it's because of necessary discussions like this.


EDIT: Per Neo's request, redirected at Morningstar, with a gentle request to Neo to format more clearly and check the accuracy of quoted sources. ;)


Last edited by JWPlatt on Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 10:29 pm
Posts: 46
EDIT: So noted JW - Thanks for making the necessary changes I'm also 100% aware of the accuracy in quotes I used above. I'm sorry if the bold italicized threw you off :wink:

_________________
An amateure practices 'til he gets it right, a professional practices 'til he can't get it wrong!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 7:46 am
Posts: 48
Location: Austin, TX
neosource wrote:
@ Envie:

Hi Envie...I have enjoyed reading all of your posts. You offer a great perspective and good temperance! I'm just going to comment on one area that I've been mulling over:

Uru is a -modern- companion to the Myst worlds that allows us, the common guys, to be included into the evolving storyline and plot. It's not meant to stand alone or be "solved" in a few play sessions.

Solving the puzzles and ages in Uru is like a TUTORIAL, I said this before. Pointing out it's flat and unfinished is like saying kindergarten just didn't give you enough education to get into college...


The concern is that URU & URU Live failed thus bankrupting our beloved CYAN. We can also see a continuation of URU's story and likeness in MYST V which did not do so hot either. Why am I saying this???... because as suggestions... while we cannot fully "get into college" yet with this new URU Live if you will... we can view our past experiences and raise concerns or obvious areas that need work. If some of us are more blunt than others...we need to also appreciate that not everyone has the strength, time or stamina to spend writing lengthy posts either! Speaking of which... my time is running out! Yeah right... :P


Wow. That was a lot of responses! I went ahead and picked out the part you addressed to me because I'm not sure to whom you refer when you mention 'the concern' that Uru Live failed.

It was my impression that Uru Live was canceled by its publishers and not Cyan itself? Ubisoft (who I am not particularly fond of due to another game ((shadowbane)) they took a heavy hand approach with) pulled the plug on funding before the game could be released. I don't know the exact -why- behind this, but I thought it was due to lack of public response or interest in the game and not necessarily that the game itself had failed although there were definitely some technical/server-side concerns that I was aware of during beta.

To respond with another one of my analogies... it's not entirely fair to accuse a horse of failing to run the race when the gates didn't even open up at the starting block!

Cyan had an amazing game. It's every bit as stunning looking with deep ambiance and music years later and the same can not be said for many games that were being developed back then, which now appear crude in comparison to new games (SWG anyone?).

Quote:
Why am I saying this???... because as suggestions... while we cannot fully "get into college" yet with this new URU Live if you will... we can view our past experiences and raise concerns or obvious areas that need work.


My concern here is that this post was started without any real suggestion, but a pretty heavy criticism - very liberal, very counterproductive. You can't go accusing something of being unfinished or bland and short if the game never got off the ground in the first place! I agree, having a concern about the second go 'round is valid. I've voiced my own concern that fans won't have the stamina as you put it, to stay around through the long process of releasing new content since this isn't a hugely involved game like many MMORPGs with levels, quests and itemization to preoccupy idle players during further development and expansions.

Thanks for your compliment, I'm not always so diplomatic or even tempered, but Uru is a game that I feel strongly about, but not in an aggressive way as I have other games. This game is a work of art and as such, needs to be respected as such. I want to see Cyan succeed with this and hope the suggestions we make here on this forum are valid and helpful ones.

Honestly, the original poster is correct in one respect, he's gotten far too much attention (pages and pages) for a topic which was short, derisive and incomplete. Apparently this is something that touches raw nerves for some and who wouldn't when the beloved story is being insulted ;) But really, that's not the point. The point is, he didn't make a point. He didn't give valid or lengthy suggestions the way we all were willing to give him in our feedback.

I'm done with this thread. I'm not angry, I just don't want to continue feeding ego when the person can't even admit he just came across badly in the first place.

I'm ok with criticism when it's followed up by intelligent explanations and suggestions the way you and many others in this thread have done. But this one now has just gotten too much attention and needs to rest. :)

_________________
~Envie
KI: 02127837


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:59 am 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 1:17 am
Posts: 1700
Location: Spokane, WA
Envie wrote:
It was my impression that Uru Live was canceled by its publishers and not Cyan itself? Ubisoft (who I am not particularly fond of due to another game ((shadowbane)) they took a heavy hand approach with) pulled the plug on funding before the game could be released. I don't know the exact -why- behind this, but I thought it was due to lack of public response or interest in the game and not necessarily that the game itself had failed although there were definitely some technical/server-side concerns that I was aware of during beta.


To clarify before I bow out again, yes, Uru's plug was pulled by Ubi 3 months into the open beta/ramp-up phase of Live during which not much was happening content-wise (and even story-wise, it was a bit thin, but such is life in a beta... betas are for tech and debugging, not story development). The logic, as I've understood it, was thus:

X people are playing this game online for free, which is only Y% of the total units of the game we've sold as of Christmas. Assuming that only Z% of Y actually decide to pay for this game once it's finished, there will only be N people holding it together, and that's not enough to continue supporting it.

Of course, the logic was, IMHO, rather flawed, because 1) the game had only been out for a month by Christmas, and games tend to have a slightly longer shelf life than that (and MMOs always build up more slowly than sales of a single-player game), 2) it took a lot of people a lot longer than a month to get through ABM, and many assumed this was a requirement before being able to join Live, and apparently those joining after Christmas weren't really counted, because by then the deal was pretty much done. 3) There were a number of people (myself included, honestly) on the Ubi forums telling folks to wait until Prologue (aka open beta) was over if they didn't want to deal with sign-up delays, bugs, and lag. Extrapolating the expected player base for a final product from an open beta's player base isn't the most intelligent idea I've ever heard of, but whatever. The point is, the bean counters at Ubi wanted the game to turn a profit, or at least look like it might turn a profit soon by Christmas time, and that simply wasn't a realistic way of looking at things. So, ultimately, the plug was pulled because Accounting decided the game wasn't selling fast enough and that not enough people, out of those who bought the box, were joining Live.

While this may have been a fair assessment to make some 6 months down the road, determining this a month after the game shipped is rather a bit more shaky, because speaking from a purely scientific standpoint, there's just not enough data to go on at that stage. I could go on at length about how badly I think the single-player game that was thrown together last-minute in May (prior to a November release date) damaged not only the storytelling, but also the puzzles and more importantly the probability for Live's financial success, but I won't, for the sake of space, time, and not really wanting to get into it for the nth time.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 272 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 ... 19  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: