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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 10:49 pm 
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Shields wrote:
Congradulations man, I just got myself a new siggie.


Eh?

If you think that Uru's story is "very very bad"... I think you probably weren't paying close enough attention. What exactly do you see as "random philosophical blabbering"?


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 3:09 am 
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He's being purposefully offensive with that statement. Don't let it get to you.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 3:50 am 
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I actually played through Uru several times and am well acquanted with the meaning of the story line.

Everything Yeesha said from "You must take the Journey" to "The Grower bla bla bla" didn't seem to have any real point to it.

Why do people need to take the journey? As far as I can tell it's so D'ni will be repopulated or something like that. What exactly does D'ni's repopulation mean? Why $10 a month from everybody of course.

There is no real purpose to travelling through Uru. People will of course run saying "Well Uru doesn't have to be all flashy, remember you're supposed to be yourself." What exactly does that mean? That Uru Live will be full of boring times just like in RL? I have a busy real life and won't get to play Uru Live that much, so I really don't care about pets and parties that take place in a computer generated dream world. If you want that go for an MMORPG like WoW.

I'd like to actually get on and play through levels with a meaningful purpose instead of "Well there's a 10% drop rate for a special shirt everytime you complete the Age." Uru Live should not be an RPG. If it becomes an RPG it has lost what makes it special in my opinion.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:02 am 
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I for one could not sympathize with Yeesha. The story of the tree growing out of the darkness just isn't something I can get into because it's not concrete. I don't see the big deal, because other than the Books, this dead civilization is no different from the Mayas, Mexias, and Incas. . . .

. . . Flip the coin. We've all heard this story. We're all stuck in it. The DRC and Yeesha are the method by which we humans have bound ourselves to this dead civilization. We now have something in common with D'ni. The story, we are positive, will delve into rich tales of human relationships and society and treachery. We will be able to connect to them and appreciate these new storylines, and they will affect us directly or indirectly. . . .

. . . Why?

Because we've already taken the Journey. If we were dissatisfied with what it has to offer, we wouldn't be discussing it here on the Uru Live forums. :)


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 5:35 am 
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I completely agree with Naquiel.

My opinion - if it doesn't occur right in front of me, it doesn't count.

It will be interesting to see how they do the story, and if enough "paying" customers will pay, if the story is set up so that most people don't experience it first hand. Even reading about it isn't enough for me.

I'm a huge fan of the story being communicated by actual NPCs - not Cyan people roleplaying - but computer generated characters who appear to everyone, at the right time, depending on where you are in the game. I don't know about you - but Yeesha spoke to me, and appeared to me, and I expect her to continue to do so, even in an online game. I'm sure you can also do it other ways - but I don't expect to play a game and have anything be second hand. It's all about content, and stuff to do that I experience directly.

Wait - you know, this post seemed kind of negative. I actually believe that Cyan won't do that - that they will focus on what we, the player experience directly. That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it!

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 6:26 am 
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Everyone seems to be overlooking what I said here:

http://www.urulive.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=201#3993

Summary: Cyan's not planning on using live actors to communicate the story. They never DID plan on it. The events in Prologue were a stopgap measure to fill the time because the start of Uru Live had been delayed. (Delayed far, far longer than even Cyan knew or expected, really!)

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 8:03 am 
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I honestly believe what you say, Marten, but I really don't remember where Cyan stated that.

Anyway, there's something I find difficult to understand. Some spoilers for the Myst series follow, so be aware of what you're going to read. (I cannot find the background colour code to hide the spoilers, sorry)

We played Myst - where the brothers had already done what they did and we just explored Ages, read books, collected pages, and tried to understand what had happened and who the two brothers are. Then we had to make a choice.

We player Riven - where had Gehn already kidnapped Katran, and we "just" had to activate the domes, find some codes, understand Gehn's agenda and make a choice.

We played Exile - where we see an intro action, and then we are left to explore Ages and understand why Saavedro has become the man he is now. Then we choose what to do.

We played Revelation - where we meet Yeesha and then we see a green flash. Then we explore some Ages, find out what happened to Sirrus and Achenar and their little sister. Then we choose, I guess: I haven't finished Myst IV yet, so I may be missing something.

We finally played End of Ages - where we go around collecting symbols for the tablet and reading accounts of Yeesha's story. In the end, we make a choice.

I guess you see a recurring pattern, too... :wink: So, please can someone explain me what's the real issue with these so-called Uru problems:
- choosing sides or factions
- lack of a plot we experience first hand, and importance given to accounts and journals (i.e. to the backstory)
- having in-cavern events that happen when we are not there

IMO this is the same structure the Myst games (that we all love) followed. Am I wrong? (this is not a rhetorical question)

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 11:18 am 
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Shields wrote:
I actually played through Uru several times and am well acquanted with the meaning of the story line.

Everything Yeesha said from "You must take the Journey" to "The Grower bla bla bla" didn't seem to have any real point to it.

Why do people need to take the journey? As far as I can tell it's so D'ni will be repopulated or something like that. What exactly does D'ni's repopulation mean? Why $10 a month from everybody of course.

There is no real purpose to travelling through Uru. People will of course run saying "Well Uru doesn't have to be all flashy, remember you're supposed to be yourself." What exactly does that mean? That Uru Live will be full of boring times just like in RL? I have a busy real life and won't get to play Uru Live that much, so I really don't care about pets and parties that take place in a computer generated dream world. If you want that go for an MMORPG like WoW.

I'd like to actually get on and play through levels with a meaningful purpose instead of "Well there's a 10% drop rate for a special shirt everytime you complete the Age." Uru Live should not be an RPG. If it becomes an RPG it has lost what makes it special in my opinion.


I think you're missing the forest for the trees.

In Uru you find yourself mysteriously called to someplace in New Mexico to discover that all this Myst stuff is true and that researchers actually discovered D'ni in the '80s. It turns out that these researchers want to study and restore this city. Yeesha involves herself because she knows that these researchers don't fully understand what that means.

The point of going on Yeesha's journeys is to see what she claims to know about the truth of D'ni and you need to weigh that against what the DRC tells you about D'ni.

Given what happened in Myst V it looks like Cyan was going to have people weigh in on what actual D'ni survivors would have you believe about D'ni.

...as to where this was all leading, no one knows yet.

It doesn't seem like you're seeing Yeesha's role in Uru against everything else that's going on... ...things you need to pick up by being very observant. It's not a linear narrative where you'll be led through a series of events by hand. You take what you see and piece the story together as we have in every other Myst game.


~Joey Froonishii


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 11:27 am 
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Tahm wrote:
He's being purposefully offensive with that statement. Don't let it get to you.

Andrew


I'm not. Thanks, though. :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 2:48 pm 
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I fully understand the UrU storyline.

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The point of going on Yeesha's journeys is to see what she claims to know about the truth of D'ni and you need to weigh that against what the DRC tells you about D'ni.


Why? There is no real reason to, and what you conclude doesn't really matter in the end.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 3:20 pm 
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Why? There is no real reason to, and what you conclude doesn't really matter in the end.


But we've never seen the end.

As many of us have pointed out, Ages Beyond Myst was merely the beginning of the story. It wasn't intended to be complete. Criticizing it for that is like criticizing the Harry Potter series because after six books Harry hasn't managed to get rid of Voldemort yet, so it doesn't matter in the end whether you supported Harry or Voldemort, because no one ever won. Well, no, they haven't... yet.

Uru Live died before Cyan had a chance to finish, or even really start, the story. And for a long time, it looked like it would stay dead, and the story would remain unfinished. Now we see it's coming back, and we'll get to see the rest of the story. It was interrupted, for sure. But we have yet to see the end; even when we thought it was gone forever, it was just cut off, not wrapped up.

I think those things which you say don't matter will come to matter a great deal. :)

Annacat

EDIT: For wording. My content isn't changed.

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Last edited by Anna Catherine on Thu May 25, 2006 4:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 3:59 pm 
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Right. What we've seen so far wasn't even the real first chapter of the story, it was called "prologue" for a reason. If people want to judge an entire book, just from reading the liner notes and the prologue that sets up the story, then they're not looking far enough to form a really informed opinion. [/i]

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 4:33 pm 
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Philosophical blabbering.

Yeesha's path. This just means solving all the puzzles and finding all the Journey cloths. The DRC could do this just the same an anyone else and it would still be meaningless to the game. No concrete reason has been given why they would refuse to do it. Without a basic, solid motivation or reason, the schism (or division) is contrived (or manufactured).

The DRC. They seem to disagree with Yeesha, and some of characters seem to not get along with the DRC (Hendersen, Sharper). We are only told there is a disagreement. We are not told why or how or what the arguments specifically were about. Without a basic, solid motivation or reason, the schism is contrived. The big issue with the DRC seems to be access to ages. Everyone knows this is really about Cyan's development cycle, so the whole DRC "safety" premise has no teeth and no presence during gameplay. Can your character break a leg after linking to a "dangerous" age?

Roleplaying. Without gameplay hooks into the roleplay, it's all in your head. How you act, what you wear, has absolutely no effect on the game itself - only other players. We are told to believe this or that, told characters don't get along, told the DRC doesn't believe in Yeesha's path. But we are never given specific events and reasons, or how following the path could manifest unalterable changes in a character. These are manufactured divisions, meaningless to actual gameplay.

If there's one thing all too prevalent in human society, it's the blind faith in the prejudiced information selfishly passed down from parents to their kids endlessly from generation to generation. If this were not so, the IRA wouldn't need to exist, the PLO wouldn't need to exist, the NAACP wouldn't need to exist, the JDL wouldn't need to exist, and so on. All derived from generational hatreds gone on for so long no one can possibly and childishly claim who started them.

The manufactured divisions within Uru smack of prejudice. The whole thing about manufactured divisions and choosing sides between Yeessha, the DRC, and some characters, simply because we are told there are sides to choose without being given factual reasons which are not surreal "philosophical blabbering" reminds me strongly of how I do not want to live my life or make my children suffer at the hands of baseless preconceptions simply because we are told to believe a certain way without real justification. It reminds me that to enjoy this aspect of the game, I need more than vague assurances there is a reason to feel or believe a certain way.

Other than being an excellent game, I agree the Uru plot needs to back up its philosophy with real facts, events, and gameplay hooks into roleplay. Instead of simply saying Sharper had a disagreement with the DRC, we need to see the transcript (or a flashback) of his argument with them so we know exactly what it was about and can make an educated decision. No more blind faith.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 4:51 pm 
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JWPlatt wrote:
Yeesha's path. This just means solving all the puzzles and finding all the Journey cloths.

From Yeesha's perspective, the cloths were put in places she wanted you to visit, and the completion of an Age meant that you had seen what she wanted you to see (the Bahro prisons, Kadish's skeleton), and that you had learnt what she wanted you to learn (the dangers of pride etc.).

Quote:
The big issue with the DRC seems to be access to ages. Everyone knows this is really about Cyan's development cycle, so the whole DRC "safety" premise has no teeth and no presence during gameplay. Can your character break a leg after linking to a "dangerous" age?

It's not exactly like that and you know how many topics on the DRC site dealt with this issue.
The Ages of the Journey were not deemed "safe" by the DRC. Who knows what you could have done to newer Ages? What if you broke a bridge (like we all did in the Cleft) and there was no way to get to the other side then?
We simply do not know yet what safety issues could add to the story.
BTW, the DRC closed Ae'gura after Phil's accident because of "safety issues".

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How you act, what you wear, has absolutely no effect on the game itself - only other players. [...] These are manufactured divisions, meaningless to actual gameplay.

Again, we just don't know. Seeing how actual player names were included in Sharper's journal (and we were only in Prologue) we can only make guesses at what individuals could achieve in the storyline.

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The manufactured divisions within Uru smack of prejudice.

Maybe, but it's not necessarily a bad thing. They could be a way for us to learn and overcome prejudices.

Quote:
Instead of simply saying Sharper had a disagreement with the DRC, we need to see the transcript (or a flashback) of his argument with them so we know exactly what it was about and can make an educated decision.

What about the whole Kahlo Pub drama? We've been able experience first hand what that arguing was about.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 4:55 pm 
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Marten wrote:
Everyone seems to be overlooking what I said here:

http://www.urulive.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=201#3993

Summary: Cyan's not planning on using live actors to communicate the story. They never DID plan on it. The events in Prologue were a stopgap measure to fill the time because the start of Uru Live had been delayed. (Delayed far, far longer than even Cyan knew or expected, really!)

Marten, not sure where you're getting your information, but in my recollection, Cyan never said they would or they would not use live actors. Here is what Bill Slease said at the time the Sharper/DRC/Henderson imbroglio was unfolding:

Bill Slease (CyanBill) on 27 November 2003 wrote:
Obviously from the reports of people in the game this isn't entirely true, there is something going on. There is a story unfolding, mainly with a handful of live actors. There are, however, no new Ages or areas that the betas have not seen planned to open (excepting some sneak previews to whet the appetite) until the public grand opening I talked about above. Also, the best picture of what Uru Live will be won't be available until that grand opening. What we're doing now is really about working with what we have available right now to entertain people while ensuring that Uru is ready to go at the grand opening. So yes, you're missing something, but don't worry, you're not missing anything.

That's the closest I've ever seen anyone from Cyan comment on what was or was not intended for Uru Live 1.

Having said that, I completely agree (and have said many, many times) that having live characters in Uru Live, especially ones played by Cyan employees, is not scalable, and would exacerbate the tendency of people to log on looking for "special" characters. For example:
Morningstar wrote:
What about the whole Kahlo Pub drama? We could experience first hand what that arguing was about.

No, only a handful of people could experience that; the rest of us who cannot log on during Uru Live Drama Hours would only be able to read about it.


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