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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 7:26 pm 
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:shock: oops - my bad! That was Mr. Lee in Limbo using your name in bold just above on page 5. So I'll humbly correct myself for saying you called yourself a "picky burger"oh the horror...but the point is you were still trying to give me a little jab you stinker you... :wink:

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Last edited by neosource on Tue May 30, 2006 7:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 8:19 pm 
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neosource wrote:
Yes you're right in about taking it too seriously but at the same time in order to really get into something you have to take it seriously... so I tried to take this seriously and found that I just couldn't...and therein lies the dilemma and a possible area of improvement from my perspective.

I meant that you don't have to take too seriously what Yeesha says, and not the whole Uru environment (because Uru, as Cycreim and I already said among the others, is a world, a stage, and not a proper "Myst" game).
What Yeesha says is not blabbering nor the ultimate truth per se. Just as everything you find in Uru, your interpretation, and the "journey" of understanding and growth you take, is the real meaning of it all.

Now, if we want to look at ways to affect the game that depend on what you learn from all this... there is no way in ABM (there were some in Prologue). And, as we said, it all makes sense, both in the light of what Uru is, and from the whole funding / publishing / developing perspective.

So what? We all agree on what Uru is and what it is not, though some of us have given more importance to the lesson they've been taught during the Journey (I personally can't stan Yeesha... oh well), and some have found it shallow.
We all know that Uru Live will be different, it will have player involvement, a real storyline, ongoing updates and bug fixes.
Why are we still arguing? :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 8:58 pm 
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Yes good points - Although I too can't stand Yeesha within URU & MYST V (I don't mind her in REVELATION) I still have to maintain she is most definitely in some form or other "blabbering." All in all... the main reason I defend/argue is typcially to clear the air for any misunderstood & misguided spins/accusations/comments that are taken completely out of context & pointed in not only my direction but in the direction of others... otherwise I'm always ready to move forward. :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 9:34 pm 
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Quote:
There will be villains and good guys. There will be choices to make.


How? In an MMO with a global world that isn't really possible. Choices you make would have to affect everyone.

Quote:
What Yeesha says is not blabbering nor the ultimate truth per se. Just as everything you find in Uru, your interpretation, and the "journey" of understanding and growth you take, is the real meaning of it all.


That is ridiculous. I can say the same thing about the green eggs and ham paragraph. In fact, I can say that about anything unimportant.


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 9:45 pm 
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Morningstar wrote:
I personally can't stan Yeesha... oh well

neosource wrote:
Although I too can't stand Yeesha within URU & MYST V (I don't mind her in REVELATION) I still have to maintain she is most definitely in some form or other "blabbering."


Two words: bitchin' tattoos.


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 10:13 pm 
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tkwiggins wrote:
Morningstar wrote:
I personally can't stan Yeesha... oh well

neosource wrote:
Although I too can't stand Yeesha within URU & MYST V (I don't mind her in REVELATION) I still have to maintain she is most definitely in some form or other "blabbering."


Two words: bitchin' tattoos.

I'll take just the first syllable, please. I would love to have a daughter like the girl who plays young Yeesha in 'Revelation.' I say that, possibly because I have - count 'em - three sons. My wife says it's all my fault but maybe Henry VIII was onto something. ;) Anyway, the whole thing reminds me of Anakin Skywalker, an adorable kid (acting talent debates aside - I thought he did fine and so did the girl) who grew up to be something "darker," and, uh, a whole lot better looking than Yeesha senior. Tatoos indeed - ugh - waste of good skin. (And please let's not devote whole pages to a tattoo discussion. Yikes.)


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 12:19 am 
I apologise for the signature thing...it wasn't intended as a personal attack but simply as a thought that has occurred to me many times in regard to that quote. How a downtrodden people gets its own back in little ways...

As far as this discussion goes, I've said as much as I'm going to. No-one's going to move on this, and all we're doing by arguing is multiplying the instances of non-constructive "Uru was a failure"-style comments which can do nothing but hurt Live's chances if read by people who are undecided (or Turner). I should never have let myself get drawn in. Sorry.


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 7:51 am 
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Shields wrote:
Quote:
What Yeesha says is not blabbering nor the ultimate truth per se. Just as everything you find in Uru, your interpretation, and the "journey" of understanding and growth you take, is the real meaning of it all.

That is ridiculous. I can say the same thing about the green eggs and ham paragraph. In fact, I can say that about anything unimportant.

You're missing my point.
You surely can come with pretty interpretations of everything you experience in life, but that's not what I was saying.

I was trying to say that Uru is not a game where there is a good side and a bad side.
You're not supposed to agree with everything Yeesha says, in the end.
"Uru" is just you being there, exploring, solving puzzles, learning, listening.
Thus, since there is no "plot" in a traditional sense, no unearthly truth, but only what you discover during the Journey, the fact that someone finds Yeesha's speeches "blabbering" does not detract from Uru itself.

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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 11:24 am 
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neosource wrote:
Err... Yeesha wrote:
These pages are my journey, my story, my path. They are not meant to cover up, but to reveal. Sometimes in story, sometimes in clear, sometimes in vague, sometimes long, sometimes brief. But the release of these words is a soothing elixir to my burdened soul. The words must flow from me, or I will die.

And in the end, these words are crumbs that spill along my path. And whoever eats these crumbs will know more of me.



This is an obvious reference to the journals Yeesha has left laying around in Myst V. ...which is why these words appear in the first journal in the sequence. It's not "philosophical blabbering".

neosource wrote:
I'll be back later - much to your delight I'm sure - to discuss not only why the plot was weak in URU & MYST V but also to point out why this topic is a good one "Make a real story this time." That comment although blunt & to the point has merit and also - believe it or not - still suggests the possibility of "potential" as you mentioned.


Here's a hypothetical dialogue:

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Someone: Cyan, make a real story this time! GEEZ!

Cyan: How do you suggest we can do this to improve your experience with Uru?

Same Someone: Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

This thread is just... ...pointless. Go ahead and call Yeesha's words "philosophical blabbering", but, man... All I've seen in this thread is "philosophical blabbering".

I don't see this thread coming to any conclusion until someone suggests something.


~Joey Zoonjeeshii


Last edited by Joey Zoonishii on Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 3:07 pm 
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Joey Zoonishii wrote:
I don't see this thread coming to any conclusion until someone suggests something.

Put gameplay hooks into the roleplay. If we choose a side or make a philosophical decision, let these things manifest a real effect in the game itself, not just the people. There's a difference between affecting the IC avatars and affecting the OOC players behind the avatars.

Define philosophical terms in the context of real events, actions, and the manipulation of tangible things. Stop using them as if they define themselves. That's blabbering.

If it is said that someone had a disagreement, quote the disagreement rather than just saying there was one so we actually know what it was about.

Rather than manufactured divisions and prejudice based on philosophical say-so as a divisive tool against the community, create a common foe or common cause. Scatter us and bring us together instead of throwing us together and scattering us.


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 9:14 pm 
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JWPlatt wrote:
Joey Zoonishii wrote:
I don't see this thread coming to any conclusion until someone suggests something.

Put gameplay hooks into the roleplay. If we choose a side or make a philosophical decision, let these things manifest a real effect in the game itself, not just the people. There's a difference between affecting the IC avatars and affecting the OOC players behind the avatars.


My impression was that that exact phenomenon was going to occur. If you've got political forces, all with varying amounts of sway in the cavern (e.g. Yeesha, DRC, Sharper), then the faction on top is going to be controlled directly by the players' support, resulting in a tangible change in the game itself.

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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 9:47 pm 
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Quote:
Someone: Cyan, make a real story this time! GEEZ!

Cyan: How do you suggest we can do this to improve your experience with Uru?

Same Someone: Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....


Nice jab. I regret to inform you Cyan has not posted in this thread. Not only that, but I implied exactly what I wanted in my first post. A real story with real characters. What is so hard to understand about that? Myst, Riven, Exile, and Revelation all had one. Uru did not, yet you act as if it did. There are not even "chapter endings" in Uru. The game goes on and on then it ends without any sort of purpose. We have already established that.

Then you go for the "If you think you can do it better do it yourself" defense, how immature is that? You can use this to defend nearly every non-common task. Making a movie, cooking fancy restaurant food, designing new cars, and running a country can all be defended with that approach.


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 10:06 pm 
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Nice jab. I regret to inform you Cyan has not posted in this thread. Not only that, but I implied exactly what I wanted in my first post. A real story with real characters. What is so hard to understand about that? Myst, Riven, Exile, and Revelation all had one. Uru did not, yet you act as if it did. There are not even "chapter endings" in Uru. The game goes on and on then it ends without any sort of purpose. We have already established that.


Okay. If you want anything changed, you will need to explain what you thought made the Myst games have a real story, and what you thought made Uru have a non-real story. Real is so general. I could say the same thing and mean something completely different. Surely you are not suggesting it is a counterfeit story? :P

It's like, I could say that Riven had a horrible story, because it consisted of "exposition, lots of puzzles, bits of plot, even more puzzles, climax, conclusion." With emphasis on "lots" and "even more". But the point is, that you cannot expect something that was designed to be different, is different from the Myst games, to be the same.

I think that All five Myst games and Uru had a great story. Now tell me why I'm wrong.

Hint: Because it didn't have a real story with real characters just doesn't cut it. Or any simple variations thereof.

EDIT: Because it is full of philosophical blabbering doesn't cut it either.


Last edited by Maratanos on Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 11:22 pm 
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Shields wrote:
Quote:
Someone: Cyan, make a real story this time! GEEZ!

Cyan: How do you suggest we can do this to improve your experience with Uru?

Same Someone: Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....


Nice jab. I regret to inform you Cyan has not posted in this thread. Not only that, but I implied exactly what I wanted in my first post. A real story with real characters. What is so hard to understand about that? Myst, Riven, Exile, and Revelation all had one. Uru did not, yet you act as if it did. There are not even "chapter endings" in Uru. The game goes on and on then it ends without any sort of purpose. We have already established that.


...ugh...

Look, man, for one, that wasn't an insult directed at you. It was directed toward the complete senselessness of this whole situation. I'm sorry that you took it that way.:oops:

...for two, Cyan created this forum and titled it "Suggestions". It's probably here for a reason. :roll:

...for three, ...you haven't established anything. (Though, it has been established that Uru hasn't ended, and you seem determined not to accept that.)

...for four... for-for... four-four... Heck, Uru has a great story, a great premise, and great characters. Uru is full of stories, in fact... I've never seen anything like it before. There's a story there, and you can't deny it. :wink:

Shields wrote:
Then you go for the "If you think you can do it better do it yourself" defense, how immature is that? You can use this to defend nearly every non-common task. Making a movie, cooking fancy restaurant food, designing new cars, and running a country can all be defended with that approach.


This is nuts. You ask for a "real story with real characters" without even saying what you mean by that. There's countless ways to tell a story and countless types of characters. What are you looking for? How do you expect anyone to go with that and know what you're talking about? We're not mind-readers. Uru has a real story and real characters and you just don't like it... and you're entitled to your opinion.

This isn't a defense, either. I'm not trying to insult you in any way whatsoever. Don't take it so personally. I seriously would like to know what you think is a better idea. What do you want to see? I'm really not expecting you to make a whole videogame by yourself and do it better.

All I can see is that you're looking for a more traditionally told story than what's been presented in Uru. I just don't think that's such a great idea. Uru is a completely different animule. Uru is doing something new... The story will involve us and we'll be in it... I think that's way cool. It also goes beyond the walls of the game into websites created by the characters, how cool is that? Cyan is watching what we do in Uru and goofing around with us. ...very awesome.

...and JWPlatt, thank you for suggesting stuff. I think they're good ideas, but, I think everyone else does too... and I agree with Owehn that Cyan is probably going to do this, and has been planning to... I don't think you need to worry about that stuff making it into Live II, really... ...but, what do I know?

My suggestion is to be able to talk to the DRC and other characters more... I enjoyed learning about them through their messages and journals... but... It'd be way cool to be able to talk with them more often. I think it'd be fun if they involve us more, too... the whole "liason" thing is cool, really. In terms of this, I agree with you, Shields. What I didn't like about Complete Chronicles is that it was big and lonely, and didn't translate well into a single player experience... Uru needs people.


~Joey Prunebooshii

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Last edited by Joey Zoonishii on Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:12 am 
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I hope to be able to say, when Uru Live begins, "Oh, geez, if Cyan had told me it was going to be like this, I'd have stopped screaming about it a long, long time ago!"

Odds are, if we actually get what we want and enjoy, it's because of necessary discussions like this.


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