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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:56 am 
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VoiZod wrote:
[Just how is URU ever going to be Open Source now!??!!!??!!?!?!] :shock: :shock: :o :(

Simple answer; URU is NEVER going to be OS in the definition of what a OS program is.

Cyan using the Plasma engine for MagiQuest Online has no impact upon their ability to release Uru as open source. In all likelyhood, Creative Kingdoms will have rights in the MQO content, and a non-exclusive licence to use the Plasma engine. We don't need MQO content, and there is no obstacle to the use of the engine.

Cyan won't be making the Uru content open source; some of it may be available for use in fan-created ages, the rest will probably only be available for use without modification, and quite possibly only on shards which comply with requirements set down by Cyan.

VoiZod wrote:
Plus Cyan stated in another post that they were trying to find a few indiviuals (spelling) who have programmed some of the URU code that have sense long been gone, or bluntly said, passed on.
SO how many years does it take for the rights to be nullified on those little bits of code? If Cyan can not find these persons?

AFAIK, the programmers in question don't have a veto over its release. However, asking the original programmer how something works is often quicker than having another programmer analyse the code from scratch, so the availability (or lack thereof) of the original programmers will have an impact upon the time required to overcome any technical obstacles which may exist.

dragossh wrote:
The big problem, right now, with releasing the source, is that Uru uses a bunch of proprietary stuff like PhysX and Bink and these parts need to be removed.

The PhysX licence doesn't prevent its use in open-source software (in particular, there are no per-copy royalties for PhysX). There are clauses that are incompatible with certain open-source licences (e.g. the GPL), but nothing requires Cyan to use such a licence.

Bink probably needs to be removed, but it doesn't need to be replaced (by Cyan). Nothing requires Cyan to release source code that will even compile, let alone run the existing game. They could just release what they can and leave it to the community to provide the missing pieces. However, some companies consider even APIs to be trade secrets, so they might also have to remove parts of their code which connect to e.g. Bink.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:46 am 
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Back to the basic question of the post. Here are my 5 ideas.

1. Open up more of the city, even if it's just general locations
2. Fix bugs
3. Get myst 5 content integrated into Uru ( this alone would keep us busy for months)
4. Animate linking windows in all linking books ( a Riven thing, helps you FEEL the power of a linking book)
5. Create new story with new worlds to explore ( this would be the launch of a full functional URU Live)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:30 am 
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mr_jimmy wrote:
Back to the basic question of the post. Here are my 5 ideas.


mr_jimmy wrote:
3. Get myst 5 content integrated into Uru

Does Cyan have the right to do this? I would assume that UbiSoft have an exclusive licence to Myst V. The licence may be time-limited, but even if it is, I wouldn't assume that it has expired yet; Myst V (2005) is more recent than Uru (2003).

mr_jimmy wrote:
4. Animate linking windows in all linking books

This could add significantly to the bandwidth requirements.

mr_jimmy wrote:
Create new story with new worlds to explore

This isn't economically viable. The only way that you will get significant new single-player content is if the fans create it.

Right now, I would expect any surplus to be saved so that even if donations start to drop, the servers stay up long enough for the transition to open-source. Assuming that we get that far, the next priority should probably be to allocate some developer time to helping the fans expand MOUL (i.e. rather than handing out fish, hand out fishing rods). In the event that donations exceed expenses for a sustained period, you might eventually get a third Eder or a fifth pod.

If you are hoping for something on the scale of a journey ages or PotS age from Cyan, I just can't see that happening.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:25 am 
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Keikoku wrote:
mr_jimmy wrote:
4. Animate linking windows in all linking books

This could add significantly to the bandwidth requirements.

Uh, why? The videos would be on your hard drive, not streaming over the internet. And if you were thinking that you didn't want the game's download to be larger, I imagine a bunch of low resolution, reasonably-compressed videos would hardly add anything to its already several-GB footprint.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:14 am 
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Keikoku wrote:
mr_jimmy wrote:
3. Get myst 5 content integrated into Uru

Does Cyan have the right to do this? I would assume that UbiSoft have an exclusive licence to Myst V. The licence may be time-limited, but even if it is, I wouldn't assume that it has expired yet; Myst V (2005) is more recent than Uru (2003).


The general consensus, and evidence, is that the Myst 5 ages are now available to Cyan. There's quite a number of posts on this. Considering the PotS ages were available to Cyan as of 2007, (ahnonay, er'cana, etc) And PotS was released " 7 July 2004" (according to MYSTlore.), and also that this year is 2010, two years after MOUL closed, in 2008, with only one year between the two releases... it would stand to /reason/, that even if MystV is more recent, that the content would be available by now. This does require a few assumptions, but, eh. Noting, however, that RAWA has mentioned it was /possible/, that should be enough of a reason, even without my points. =P


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:18 am 
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mr_jimmy wrote:
1. Open up more of the city, even if it's just general locations

Or tease us. Really. Maybe put a linking book somewhere, or make a non-functioning link in the Nexus.

Quote:
mr_jimmy wrote:
3. Get myst 5 content integrated into Uru

Does Cyan have the right to do this? I would assume that UbiSoft have an exclusive licence to Myst V. The licence may be time-limited, but even if it is, I wouldn't assume that it has expired yet; Myst V (2005) is more recent than Uru (2003).

I'm sure they do. K'veer was the first piece of content from Myst V that was put back into Uru.

mr_jimmy wrote:
. Animate linking windows in all linking books ( a Riven thing, helps you FEEL the power of a linking book)

This. It was done in Myst V, and it was neat. In Uru, the "delay" that is seen in the first person perspective along with the static images make the books feel ordinary, not something special that can link you to another world. They also don't evoke that feeling of "I touch this, I'm getting sucked into it".


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:17 pm 
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Kolian wrote:
Keikoku wrote:
mr_jimmy wrote:
4. Animate linking windows in all linking books

This could add significantly to the bandwidth requirements.

Uh, why? The videos would be on your hard drive, not streaming over the internet. And if you were thinking that you didn't want the game's download to be larger, I imagine a bunch of low resolution, reasonably-compressed videos would hardly add anything to its already several-GB footprint.

I was talking about the download.

As for how that relates to the existing content, don't forget that the on-disc size is much larger than the download. The sfx\streamingCache directory is as large as the rest of the game data combined. The PRP files can typically be compressed to half their on-disc size. OTOH, videos can't be compressed further.

Ultimately, it depends upon how many pictures are animated (you wouldn't necessarily animate all of the Ae'gura balcony links, for example) and how long you make the animations (Exile-style circumnavigations versus an "animated photo"). Even so, it's more data for (IMHO) a minor detail.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:40 pm 
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Keikoku wrote:
I was talking about the download.


Kolian's correct...the files would be very small. Cyan's logo video that plays when you launch the game is only 4 megabytes...and that's much larger/longer than would be required...plus it has audio which book animations would not.

Keikoku wrote:
don't forget that the on-disc size is much larger than the download. The sfx\streamingCache directory is as large as the rest of the game data combined.


The streamingCache folder has nothing to do with video.

File size/bandwidth is really zero consideration when it comes to the possibility of animating the linking panels. The hurdle is...animating the linking panels. This would involve a) making the animations, b) changing a lot of code to insert them.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:46 pm 
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Considering Plasma already supports video on surfaces, there wouldn't be much work in putting them there, I suppose. The hurdle is making the videos for each and every linking panel.


Last edited by dragossh on Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:46 pm 
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Roughly a 10-second, 320x240x30, silent video is going to be tiny. When I download 480P anime episodes, a good rule of thumb is 50MB for 8 minutes, or 4x the resolution and 50x the time of what you'd see in the books.

Rule of thumb for audio is 1MB = 1 minute, so that's 40 MB of video. Divide the resolution by 4(which is still more pixels than the books would have, as most anime is widescreen now, and the books are not, as I recall), gives 10MB of video. Divide by 50 and you get about 1MB for every 5 videos, which is pretty cheap.

So if you need one video for everywhere a book can take you in the game, (estimating) that's about a dozen places in the city(including Bahro stones), and let's say an average of 2 for every other book on your shelf, which comes to a total of 48(including the City links) according to the screenshot on the Guild of Greeters website.

So I estimate less than 10MB added to the download. That's between 30 seconds and 2 minutes on any connection able to play Uru. Not much of a problem in my own opinion, though yours may vary.

Note that wherever I didn't know a good number, I've tried to round up. I suspect 5 seconds of 15-FPS video would be more probable than 10 seconds of 30-FPS.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:25 pm 
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So it seems most agree that an animated linking panel would be an awesome addition to Uru. It does add ambiances and "fear" (for lack of better word) to every link. You ask yourself as you stare at the small pane, should I? Do I dare? Where does it go? and so on. Anyone who has played Riven knows what I'm referring to. So let me ask this, why can't something like this be a fan created item? It's small and not costly to do and would be a good starting point for fan's to work with Cyan on anything open source. I'm sure Cyan has some fear about opening up there business to open source but this might be a good place to test the water.

Myst 5 was a marketing item that I don't think Cyan really wanted to do. I may be wrong but that is how it seems when they reply on these forums to Myst 5 questions. It took Uru content, that was a deep party of the story and threw it all out in the open. So now you have a fractured story, Myst 5 and URU. Both the same but different. I don't think the problem with Myst 5 being added into Uru in a legal issue but a story issue (also a graphics engine issue). How to blend the two and keep Uru alive. Adding Myst 5 would be advancing the Uru story several chapters and I'm sure there is some Uru content that would fall in the middle that is not complete yet. Since Cyan is at a stand still on resources and funds, hence lies the problem. But I added it to my list because if Cyan could blend the two stories, it would take Uru to a whole new depth.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:47 pm 
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mr_jimmy wrote:
It's small and not costly to do and would be a good starting point for fan's to work with Cyan on anything open source. I'm sure Cyan has some fear about opening up there business to open source but this might be a good place to test the water.

Yes!

Cyan are looking into working with volunteers, but they take baby steps since they don't want to be closed for doing something illegal.

mr_jimmy wrote:
Myst 5 was a marketing item that I don't think Cyan really wanted to do. I may be wrong but that is how it seems when they reply on these forums to Myst 5 questions. It took Uru content, that was a deep party of the story and threw it all out in the open. So now you have a fractured story, Myst 5 and URU. Both the same but different. I don't think the problem with Myst 5 being added into Uru in a legal issue but a story issue (also a graphics engine issue). How to blend the two and keep Uru alive.

Not that Cyan wouldn't contradict themselves and retcon things and change the canon or anything :lol:

IC, Myst 5 was a game based on real events, so the storyline is true until proven false by URU. Also, they both share the same graphics engine, with a few incompatibilities. Supposing Myst 5 uses PhysX, the Ages should not take a lot of time to be converted to MOULa. However, they would need a big overhaul so they will be multi-player and drop the slate concept. Basically, creating 4 new Ages based on existing Ages.

To be honest, while I would like to see those Ages in the game, I would take Gahreesen III, City Proper, more of Ae'gura and Venalem over them any day!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:08 pm 
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I'd love the rest of Gira.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:13 pm 
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I want to see the Concert Hall released (according to RAWA's rules, it would be only through the Nexus). I would even help design it and work on it, in any way I could.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:02 pm 
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Scroll Bars for both the KI and the Nexus please. :P

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