New jumping physics

Isobel · **Joined:** Fri May 28, 2010 4:45 pm **Posts:** 32

Has anyone else noticed that what we used to be able to do is often no longer possible in the cavern? This is since the physics were played with with the jumps. Not only does the landing look forced and unstable, or at the least poorly animated - this physics change has messed up a few jumps for me as well, including making some landing spots impossible now. I have nowhere near the amount of quests as some people, but i sympathise with how frustrating this must be for some who have spent many hours doing this sort of thing.

I thought the idea of open source was new content, not to mess up what we already have? If there is no chance of any consistency in the physics engine now everyone has a chance to tinker with them, then i have a huge incentive to drift away and find other things to do - OK, i understand not everyone comes into the game to do glitches, but there are many of us for whom this is a big source of our pleasure and continued wish to come in cavern - having completed the game more times than i can count, this is how i keep myself interested.

What with the servers becoming more and more laggy, and now this physics change - one of the main reasons i spend time here is becoming, to say the least, frustrating. What with CW's announcement of more to come, i am really not sure if i can see myself supporting MOULa much longer.

I am all for improvements to the game, i am all for new content - but is it really necessary to change what we already have, especially the core bits of the program, like how you move?

Isobel · **Joined:** Fri May 28, 2010 4:45 pm **Posts:** 32

Mods, please dont just delete this post without explanation again, nothing i say here is worthy of deletion unless there is some perfidious intent at work on this forum. And another unexplained deletion will possibly result in a complaint to CYAN directly.

So, as i posted earlier, here we go again..........

Has anyone noticed the physics change for jumping has messed up their ability to play the game? - this physics change has messed up a few jumps for me, including making some landing spots impossible now. I have nowhere near the amount of quests as some people, but i sympathise with how frustrating this must be for others, as well as myself.

I thought the idea of open source was new content, not to mess up what we already have? If there is no chance of any consistency in the physics engine now everyone has a chance to tinker with them, then i have a huge incentive to drift away and find other things to do - OK, i understand not everyone comes into the game to do glitches, but there are many of us for whom this is a big source of our pleasure and continued wish to come in cavern - having completed the game more times than i can count, this is how i keep myself interested.

What with the servers becoming more and more laggy, and now this physics change - one of the main reasons i spend time here is becoming, to say the least, frustrating. What with CW's announcement of more to come, i am really not sure if i can see myself supporting MOULa much longer.

I am all for improvements to the game, i am all for new content - but is it really necessary to change what we already have, especially the core bits of the program, like how you move?

Lyrositor · **Joined:** Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:14 pm **Posts:** 808

Isobel wrote:

Mods, please dont just delete this post without explanation again, nothing i say here is worthy of deletion unless there is some perfidious intent at work on this forum. And another unexplained deletion will possibly result in a complaint to CYAN directly.

I don't understand. I see three copies of your posts. Are you sure they were deleted, or did just see the error message about mailing? That happens all the time.
Or maybe they were deleted and another mod restored them... I don't know.

Isobel · **Joined:** Fri May 28, 2010 4:45 pm **Posts:** 32

The latter.

Mac_Fife · **Posted:** Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:35 pm

Mod note: Related threads merged.

AdamJohnso · **Posted:** Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:08 pm

If you don't like the change, you probably should have complained when it was first implemented in the testing grounds. All we heard in that phase were positive responses...

And yes, these changes are necessary. We have found that the game physics behave differently depending on the speed of the player's computer. This is not a good thing. It is very important to have a decent, unified game experience. We may hit some bumps along the way, but they will (eventually) be ironed out.

[PS: I understand that heavy handed veralun moderation is annoying. I have been a victim of that game more than I care to count. You will find that people in those testing ground areas are much more appreciative and able to react to your complaints and requests than the rigid CYAN-IS-GOD following of this forum.]

Isobel · **Joined:** Fri May 28, 2010 4:45 pm **Posts:** 32

Ty for your reply Adam, and i would like to stress that i am not just having a go at the people who are working hard behind the scenes. I don't think anyone will have thought to import all their marker games to another shard to test them, or even if this is possible, so the problem only came to light when this change went live - firstly peopel thought it wasa problem only affecting them, and not globallly - ntil we all started talking - it is only now that the problem is coming to light.

I am sure these things will all be ironed out eventually, but i hope you appreciate how frustrating this has been for many of us, and why we are now coming forward to put our pointo of view. It is a pity that this couldn't have been found sooner, but let's keep our fingers crossed for a solution, soon and without too many emotions getting involved.

Isobel

AdamJohnso · **Posted:** Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:45 pm

I definitely understand the frustration. There isn't much to do in Uru aside from chatting and making those diabolical marker quests (and new content surely isn't happening on the Cyan MOULa shard). I hope that as things change, you guys will be able to figure out other ways to abuse physics engine to get to those places

. I think that some of the pending changes might make things a little bit easier for you.

Isobel · **Joined:** Fri May 28, 2010 4:45 pm **Posts:** 32

TY again Adam. Let's hope we can find a happy solution.

Just as a sidenote - it may be worth trying to publicise the testing shard, particularly for the people who have done a lot of work themselves (be it marker games or whatever), so some of the testing can be a little more inclusive - although many of us do not really have enough time to playtest like that, at least we would be aware of the option.

I know a couple of people who are very angry about this, and it is a pity we have got in the situation - maybe some extra thought needs to go in to how things are tested and introduced - i don't mean this as a criticism, but as a suggestion that could be thought over to try and prevent similar happening in the future?

Anyway - the best of luck to you and all at the GoW who work pretty hard, i look forward to further developments

Izzy

Annabelle · **Posted:** Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:17 pm

My only 2 cents in this debate...(I didn't have much time yet to read all new 50 posts made today LOL)

You must use your instinct...

if a marker says: run-jump to the next marker, make sure to figure out the distance, it might be worth trying a walk-jump instead, you will end up with the landing effect just a bit behind that next marker.

if you have to land perpendiculary on a wall, DO NOT aim the marker even if the marker you are on says: AIM the next marker. Aim before it or after it...use instinct.

I know it's not that "easy" to figure every moves but we have NO choice. I can play all my quests, the only thing is that I have to adapt my every move which is not an easy task i must admit.

The funniest I've seen so far is the lamp posts in the ferry where "everyone" (<--- the skydivers) knew that from one post to the next one we had to walk to the edge of the post we landed on to make our another walk-jump to the next post ahead. Now, it's the exact opposite, we still need to walk to the edge of the post but by backing up to the rear edge instead.

Impact on quests: if you made 1 quest there, you must changed all the instructions, if you made several quests there, like me, you must changed all of them.

With 166 quests of which 22 are still pending (Garden Ages), I'm not really interested in modifying everything. It will took ov er 100 hours!!!

As the time goes by, I'm less and less interested in finishing the 22 quests. It seems that I will publish unprofessional quests. For me, they are still quite easy but like I said, I'm doing them instinctively. When I play one of my quest, I don't even look at instructions. Even if I have over 13,000 markers spread in 166 quests, I know each spot by heart. So I can easily figure out if I will overshoot following my "good" instruction now being an "death instruction"

It's suck, I'm angry too :cry:

Deledrius · **Posted:** Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:08 pm

Isobel wrote:

I know a couple of people who are very angry about this, and it is a pity we have got in the situation - maybe some extra thought needs to go in to how things are tested and introduced - i don't mean this as a criticism, but as a suggestion that could be thought over to try and prevent similar happening in the future?

Actually, a lot of thought goes into testing and developing these patches, including open testing on at least two servers with two mildly different codebases with a reasonably wide tester base. Anyone is welcome to participate and provide feedback on these issues. Obviously, it's understandable if you want to only play on Cyan's server and receive only the meager updates which make it that far, but it's untrue that any of this was done without forethought and participation.

One thing I think everyone needs to keep in mind is that there are at least two very divergent games in Uru, and the players to go along with that: the people who play (or try to, despite the bugs) the game that Uru was meant to be, and the people who play the games they've discovered in Uru due to those very bugs. I've said it before: make no mistake, these are bugs, and they are being fixed.

In many ways, these are mutually exclusive audiences, which coexist only due to the long stagnation of the game. Many fixes which touch the areas of physics, or improperly-constructed content (should we ever receive a license to fix those as well) will adversely affect the latter group. I do sympathize with those who have found a life in an otherwise dead game and are finding that revoked after years of playing on the bones, I truly do, but ultimately those needs will often be at odds with making the game work in the way in which it was intended.

With that being the case, it's not true that no one working on the code fixes and other such things are actively working to destroy or disrupt the alternative gameplay in Uru. In fact we've often gone out of our way to accommodate an extremely wide and diverse playerbase with incredibly varied needs, from their choice of OS to the hardware they run on. So far, most of these changes have been met with generally positive reactions, even from other creative-exploiters such as Annabelle who does play on many alternative servers. We're not psychic, and we need feedback and discussion in order to drive decisions. Even so, everyone works on what appeals to them. If there is a need not being met with regards to your (or anyones') playstyle, the beauty of open source means that you can contribute (or rally those who can in your favor).

You're not beholden to the GoW, or OpenUru, or even Cyan to play the game you want to play. Open source means Uru can be whatever you want it to be.

Hopefully, some future fixes on the way will help soften and perhaps even repair the interim problems you're experiencing. There is a lot in Uru to fix, and fixing one bug often reveals several more, as you can see. The improvements are incremental, and will take time, but everything that makes it to Cyan takes us further on the path to a better Uru.

Paradox · **Posted:** Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:28 pm

This is why I don't work on Uru anymore. We get blamed for fixing things, we get blamed for not fixing the right things, we get blamed for not fixing things fast enough, we get personally attacked for losing interest...
Thanks.

Isobel · **Joined:** Fri May 28, 2010 4:45 pm **Posts:** 32

"Actually, a lot of thought goes into testing and developing these patches, including open testing on at least two servers with two mildly different codebases with a reasonably wide tester base. Anyone is welcome to participate and provide feedback on these issues." Its a pity no one seemed to know about it then.

Did anyone think to ask people who have put months of work into things to import those things to another shard to see if they worked?

And how many people who have completed the game hundreds of times really come back to play the game for its gameplay again? Most of the peopel who arent programmers who can actually do this stuff find other ways to amuse themselves. Having that taken away, whether it was intended or not is heartbreaking.

I wish i could see a solution other than to revert to a version that actually gives a large chunk of the fan base the main reason they come here (and donate, and ultimately keep the servers up), but i can't.

AdamJohnso · **Posted:** Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:03 am

I didn't see you on the Minkata forum or on the Gehn forum... We cannot be held responsible for testing every single user created marker mission ourselves. It is impossible. It is your responsibility to do evaluate proposed changes on Minkata or Gehn and state your objections before they make it into the main game.

Isobel · **Joined:** Fri May 28, 2010 4:45 pm **Posts:** 32

If i know about them, yes. But it is not only me, there are several people who are unhappy, so i would suggest the communications could have been better, that is assumimg we all have unlimited time to be able to asses what is going to get broken next.

New jumping physics

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