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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:32 pm 
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Ainia, on your OOC thoughts about the Cleft and Tomahna, we can be fairly sure that they're within a few miles of each other, since in Revelation, Atrus states that he needs to stop by the Cleft to get some tools before he links to Rime, and he doesn't go down the lift, which is where his linking books would logically be. Therefore, he would've walked there after riding the gondola, which also vanishes.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:18 pm 
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I missed a couple of points in Ainia's message that I should reply to:

Quote:
Also, we know from the early historical records that it was believed some of the workers who built the Shaft itself wandered out to the surface. And the fact that there are great fans which function and in fact bring fresh air into the Cavern implies pretty strongly that early on there was some sort of connection (natural or D'ni-made) to the surface itself.


It's known that there were connections with the surface. Anna found her way down to D'ni without aid, and she most certainly did not ride an elevator there! Plus, I seem to recall reading that there were a number of air shafts to the surface. Ri'neref wrote the air shafts into his Age when he wrote it, because a cavern system without a way to get fresh air would have been useless.

Quote:
The Tomahna we see from Yeesha's childhood also is completely wrong for Eddy County, but again fits very well for other parts of New Mexico. And somewhat paradoxically, Yeesha refers to The Cleft as Tomahna, though it bears little resemblance to what we've seen of her childhood home. So I've been wondering for a very long time exactly what Tomahna really refers to. Certainly not just The Cleft; perhaps it's an Age name for Terra; or a continent name as with the pod ages. Without being able to ask Yeesha herself, I can only guess.


Tomahna is a different location than the Cleft, although it is very definitely nearby. I don't recall Yeesha referring to the Cleft as Tomahna. Do you recall when she might have said that?

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 Post subject: Goodness!!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:37 pm 
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Shorah all,

My goodness, things have gotten busy here fast! I'll try to respond to all the posts since my last but may wind up splitting this into two posts to keep things from getting muddled.

DLordofTime, thanks for that nugget regarding Atrus' trip to The Cleft from his Tomahna homestead. I haven't been able to get back to visit there for quite a while now (but that's another story involving computer woes). In regards to the landscape views here in New Mexico, I agree that it makes sense that The Cleft and Atrus' Tomahna residence would be within a reasonable distance from each other. And, again, this all fits well with the landscapes here in New Mexico, though not the ones in Carlsbad/Eddy County.

larryf58, in one of Yeesha's speeches at The Cleft, she says something along the lines of "here in Tomahna", clearly referring to The Cleft itself or the general location of the Cleft and the caldera. It's the same speech where she talks about how only she could bring rain to the desert (so it's probably the final "live" speech at the end of her Journeys quest). The first time I heard it, I firstly wondered why in the world Yeesha was giving herself credit for a climate phenomenon that has been a natural part of New Mexico for many centuries (one of those examples where we can't be sure about how firm her grasp is on reality). But I also really started thinking about this whole issue of Tomahna's location and what the place name is truly referencing since Atrus and Katran (Catherine) always referred to Yeesha's childhood home as Tomahna. (BTW, this speech would be from the offline Uru; it was during MOUL's last hiatus that I first took note of and began researching this issue. I don't know offhand if her speech in MOULa differs.)

So this question has been a particular puzzle for me since I live in the neighborhood...

(think I'll continue my responses in the next post...)

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:18 pm 
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Found the speech. The part you remember is:

Quote:
And another gift is here, a link to the Cleft, here in Tomahna. You haven't been able to return here, but now you can. This book will take a special place on your shelf. This place is not meant to be shared. Return here alone when you wish to remember the cycle of things.


I can see how that confuses the issue. In that speech, she speaks of Tomahna as an Age, instead of as a single location, and that's accurate in a way. If we follow that logic, then the Lodge, the Cleft, and the home where she grew up are all part of Tomahna.

That makes sense in a way. All three locations are places members of her family lived at one time or another. However, Atrus only called the home he made with Catherine "Tomahna".

The word "tomahn" means "house" in D'ni, and tomahna probably translates to something like "the house". The rest stops in the Great Shaft are called "eder tomahntee", literally "rest houses".

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:27 pm 
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Regarding Tomahna and the Cleft, Dr. Watson has described their relation and the meaning of Tomahna more generally in the following way:

Dr. Watson wrote:
The word "Tomahna" ... is also used to describe more than one thing - broadly: "The Surface (of Earth)"; specifically: their residence (the Cleft/Atrus' home in Exile); generically: "home".


I am quoting (with permission) from an old beta tester forum that is still under lock and key (in general).


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 Post subject: Tomahna
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:08 am 
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Shorah all,

I'm still working on my other follow-up post but wanted to thank everyone who took the trouble to find that Yeesha speech. Zardoz, thanks for the link to the DRC forum thread about this same topic.

Overall, it sounds as though the word Tomahna tends to take on a contextual meaning in D'ni speech (something we English speakers can have trouble wrapping our heads around). RAWA's input is very helpful for setting a baseline in sorting out the contextual meaning in our particular examples.

Most illuminating!

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 Post subject: Bahro linking magic
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:36 am 
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Shorah again,

This part of my response is focused on the "shadow age" larryf58 talks about from Descent.

larryf58, your photos are deeply appreciated and very helpful. And your observations about what is present and missing in the Shaft from that Tomahn are actually quite illuminating. You did ask for other theories about this (which you may soon regret! :wink:). So my thoughts are probably going to be a bit long, but here we go!

We've been learning gradually over time and across several ages that the Bahro have the ability to meddle with time itself in their linked ages. Our first indication of this was via the Bahro pellet cave and the time delay between when we launch the pellet and when it arrives in the cave pool.

Our next big indication was via Minkata. The Day Minkata is in perpetual daylight, where we can use the unchanging trinary star system as a reliable means to guide ourselves through the sandstorms. Think about it, how phenomenal it is that in Day Minkata we have an unchanging view of these three stars--they never move on the horizon, they are always in exactly the same location to each other. In a universe where celestial bodies are in constant motion, this is an amazing phenomenon.

Night Minkata is at a future time when the same location is in perpetual night, when the central structure has deteriorated dramatically. I can only guess what might have caused such a profound change to the sky there, but it wouldn't surprise me if some external influence (a large comet?) disturbed the stable relationship between the three suns and started a chain of events that resulted in what we now see at "night" there. (This would be another very interesting astro-geological research project.) And the resulting celestial phenomena we see when we trigger yet another type of Bahro "link" in Night Minkata simply boggles the mind. It is as though we are seeing millenia passing us by in the skies, all in the space of a few moments.

But in view of this Bahro linking magic, I've been wondering exactly how these Bahro are doing this. Are we being transported across time itself, seeing an entire age at some moment in its distant past or future? So far, every time we experience one of these time warps, it's from the use of a Bahro linking stone (or in the case of Minkata, from the use of a Bahro monument). larryf58's observations in Descent are very helpful in illuminating this phenomenon. I suspect that the Bahro are creating time bubbles rather than transporting us to the entire age itself across time. That is, when we use a Bahro link to these places, we arrive in a zone of the age which is actually from a different time period of that age. So in the case of Descent, I'm theorizing that Watson (and we) link in to the Tomahn at a time in the past when the elevator had not yet been completely installed. And the lack of struts could well indicate that this part of the shaft was not quite complete yet either. The empty doorways would simply be the edges of the time bubble; we can neither see past nor cross over the bubble boundary (for reasons I cannot begin to guess) but I'm theorizing that if we could, we would find ourselves back in our "present" time at that same location.

This might be related to the linking bubbles we see in Direbo and the four ages Watson visited from there; perhaps a smaller, more compact form of the same linking technology we are seeing in Descent and Minkata. These time bubbles apparently can be small or vast; they seem to have a great deal of flexibility in that regard.

So I find myself wondering if all the Bahro linking stones meddle with the timeline in a similar fashion. This might explain why using the Bahro linking stone in a Hood's linking room will take us to an empty version of Ae'gura...

Anyway, the more I look at the Bahro linking technology, the better I understand Sharper's comments about Yeesha and how she can do things that make the DRC and D'ni linking books look like tinker toys. And I think Yeesha is still a mere apprentice to the Bahro linking wisdom; the Bahro seem to be light years beyond anything the D'ni ever developed or dreamed of... (Small wonder that the D'ni feared and enslaved them.)

However, I fear I have hijacked larryf58's architectural work here. If we are enjoying this conversation, perhaps we should start a parallel thread?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:49 pm 
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While your theory has promise, there are three points it does not explain.

First, if we were being transported back to a time when the Shaft construction was incomplete, why is there collapse damage to the climbing ramp? That should be in pristine condition.

Second, you can see in my photos that there is a lamp sitting in precisely the same spot by the cot Watson used. It's a surface-made kerosene lantern, not a D'ni firemarble lamp. While I could believe it was brought in by Watson, why would it also be in the real Eder Tomahn?

Finally, the center of the elevating platform is a structure that is about a foot and a half tall and which has a lighted button in the real Shaft. In the shadow, it's flat and does not have a functional button. In fact, in my comparison photos, you can see that the decoration around the centers is radically different.

If not for those points, I'd say you were on to something.

Just for kicks, I'll say that my next article will cover the neighborhoods. That should pretty much finish my work in the Cavern, and I'll go back to fix my early articles after that. Unless anyone knows something I've missed? Remember, I'm not trying to show things that people can easily see for themselves, I'm looking to show things that are difficult to see and to give an overview the history of the structures.

Here is the platform center in the real Shaft:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


Here is the platform center in the shadow:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image

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 Post subject: The Neighborhoods
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:52 am 
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This article was not the easiest of the bunch, because I went into it not knowing how to make it interesting. Well, I guess I'll find out if I was at all successful.

The neighborhoods are small communities dug out of the walls in all of the D'ni caverns. They have many features in common, and are so similar to each other that it seems obvious that they were created to be exactly as they are, rather than being natural. Each is equipped with a waterfall, fountain, Garden of Lights, community room, classroom, common library, central clock, and a main residence with a large balcony. They also normally have an Ahyoheek table.

My own speculation is that they were middle-class residences devoted to extended families or clans, with a family owning one or more neighborhoods. The home with the balcony would have been for a community leader or family head, if that is true.

For whatever reason, every neighborhood I have visited has had an identical copy of a stone with Bahro rock art placed on the balcony, blocking the door into the residence. I have no idea why the Bahro placed them there.

The neighborhoods are decorated with the same themes that are found throughout the City. The two main railing designs found on Ae'gura are here as well:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


Access to the homes in the neighborhoods are by doors set along the walkways. There are two doors behind the fountain and leading under the community room that must lead to stairs for the homes high on the cave side above the community room. There is also a door on the lowest level, not far from the Garden of Lights that seems to be a second entrance to the home above it. There is a home under the common library, and ones above the class and meditation rooms, but I cannot find doors that would lead to them.

Here are the only doors marked with numbers, which must be for specific addresses:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


The classrooms:

In each neighborhood, there is a classroom where D'ni children were home-schooled to learn to read and write at the very least. The characters are written around the top of the walls. The ceiling of the room is a star field painting. Whether this was for beauty or served an instructional purpose is unknown to me.
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


The stained glass panels:

In most neighborhoods, there are stained glass panels to identify books in the common libraries. Each common library has four linking books: one to a garden age (either Eder Delin or Eder Tsogal), one to Gahreesen so that citizens can collect a KI (this was provided just before the Fall), one to the Great Zero so that the KI can be calibrated, and a linking book to the Nexus Age. In most neighborhoods, the Bahro added a pedestal with a stone that links to a shadow of Ae'gura. Why they did so is a mystery. The stained glass panels each have three variations. In these photos, I hung the panels for the two garden ages in the same shots for convenience. They cannot be found together normally.

The three Gahreesen panels:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


The panels for Eder Delin, Eder Tsogal, and the Great Zero:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


Bevin:

Bevin is notable because most of the neighborhoods seem to have been created in its style.

An overview of Bevin:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


The lamps in Bevin have a D'ni hand symbol overlaid on them:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


The community room, where meetings and lectures could be held. The podium at the front of the room contains a sound player so that lectures or speeches could be prerecorded and played later. Note the "chandelier" is a sawed-off stalactite that has been reattached with a chain. The community room in Seret looks the same as this one.
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


Kirel:

Kirel was the first neighborhood that was discovered, and was the headquarters of the DRC until Tokotah I was declared fit for habitation. It is a mirror image of Seret, with blue lenses on most of the lamps.

Overviews of Kirel:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


The lamps in Kirel have lenses shaped like moths, but with mainly blue tinting.
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


A lamp in the Kirel meditation chamber:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


Kirel's community room is also lit mostly in blue:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


Seret:


Seret is a neighborhood that is nearly identical to Bevin, except that the lamps are different. However, the first one of this style discovered did not have a telescope or a working Ahyoheek table. It is also a common template for the neighborhoods that have been discovered.

An overview of Seret:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


The lamps in Seret have lenses shaped like moths.
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image


A lamp and urn in the Seret meditation chamber:
[Reveal] Spoiler:
Image

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:37 am 
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Shorah larryf58,

Thanks for all the great new photos. I'd had no idea I could walk the Shaft from top to bottom. I have done that very thing and see quite clearly that there really are only the four Tomahn there. I was able to take numerous photos of the Descent and current day versions of things there and am finding that thus far, I haven't seen anything that can't be accounted for by a time differential between the two linking locations.

Firstly, I will apologize for the several assumptions I made earlier. I had not realized the Shaft could be traversed by foot from top to bottom (though you do have to be careful about those gaps). And secondly, since the Descent location is so woefully dim, I'd always assumed that when I panic-linked out, it was because I'd fallen through a gap. As far as I can see now, in our current day there are only three gaps in the entire spiral pathway, two of them at the Descent Tomahn and the third at the bottom where the spiral pathway begins. I'm not sure what you are seeing in terms of pathway gaps in Descent, as thus far, I have found none there. There is a somewhat different spiral pathway phenomenon present in both cases which I will address below.

My best guess regarding the perpetual panic links in Descent is that in walking blindly I would invariable stumble over the edge. Another possibility is that I would run into the elevator rail supports which hang out over the pathway to a great degree. But I can only guess about all that right now.

[Reveal] Spoiler: Present: Some of the supports for the elevator rails
Image

Anyhow, in looking at the state of things in Descent, we can see that the elevator rails from the second Tomahn (the first Tomahn being the topmost, the fourth being the bottom-most) are only being added for a lower elevator. The rails for the upper elevator do not yet exist nor do the pathway gaps that make the use of the upper elevator so necessary in later times.

[Reveal] Spoiler: Tomahn 2 doorway view in Descent: Elevator railings are in place for lower elevator, no pathway damage
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler: Tomahn 2 doorway view in Present: Both elevators are in place and pathway has been damaged in two places
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler: Tomahn 2 elevator view in Descent: View from elevator railings, no pathway damage and no work yet on upper elevator, no bracing and lighting
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler: Tomahn 2 elevator view in Present: View from elevator railings, extensive pathway damage, upper elevator present, bracing and lighting present
Image

In trying to understand the original purpose of the lower elevator, I found something really interesting: that the lowest part of the spiral pathway actually dead-ends on the way up, after only a few circuits around the Shaft itself. And the spiral pathway from the top comes to an abrupt end at roughly the same height. I was only able to get a helpful photo of this in Descent by using Yeesha magic as the Shaft is so dark there, nothing can really be seen.

[Reveal] Spoiler: Descent: Using Yeesha magic, the end of the downward spiral pathway can be seen
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler: Present: The impending collision between the two spiral pathways can be seen
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler: Present: The abrupt end of the downward spiral pathway
Image

In looking at this, it's almost as though there was a significant engineering mistake that happened somewhere during construction. Visually, it looks very much as if the pathway was being carved from both the top and the bottom simultaneously and they had a dramatic "miss". Yet this doesn't make much sense since we know of no other means for the workers to have ascended and built everything we see up top. Perhaps it's possible that the great rock burrowing machines could have dropped off a gang of workers at the top who were tasked with building from the top downward; and a similar gang was placed at the bottom tasked with building from the bottom up. From my photos of this state of things in Descent, it looks as though this engineering problem has been discovered and the lower elevator is the simplest solution, and so the construction is underway there.

[Reveal] Spoiler: Descent: The beginning of the upward spiral pathway is undamaged
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler: Present: The beginning of the upward spiral pathway has been damaged
Image

The three gaps very likely were caused by some sort of massive rock coming loose, perhaps from the very top of the Shaft. The tremors in the Shaft can knock you off your feet even today, and there may have been a particularly bad one at some point in the past. At any rate, the two gaps near the second Tomahn clearly were created during the same event. I'm only surmising that the lowest gap was created at the same time, from the same event since it's not a far-fetched possibility. Such an event would have necessitated the second elevator as well, so I'm assuming that some short time after the damage, work was begun on the elevator connecting the top of the Shaft to the second Tomahn area. I am assuming that engineering constraints dictated the building of a second elevator at a different location rather than extending the existing one.

It appears that the main purpose of the central bracing is to provide for lighting throughout the length of the Shaft, though it may also provide additional stability to the pathway. With the lighting in place one can walk without fear along the spiral pathways; in Descent it is a treacherous endeavor since the only light there is that provided by the Tomahn doorway fixture, which soon fades away as one climbs or descends. I can speak from experience that trying to walk the pathway using only touch and one's sense of direction is a recipe for a fall. So I would suggest that during Descent, this lighting had not yet been started. It's even possible that in the aftermath of a rockfall disaster, the need for lighting throughout the Shaft was recognized as an important safety feature. Carrying a lamp can't guarantee one will see a newly made gap before it's too late.

In visiting and photographing all four Tomahn, I was surprised to see that the first two (top and next down) are shockingly similar, even to having similar cots and lamps with the same placement. And all four Tomahn sport similar kerosene lamps, so I can only assume that the DRC put them in place either for their own use, the use of the explorers, or both. Perhaps Dr. Watson has a sense of humor? Or perhaps he didn't realize that Descent was in a different time era and so simply replaced the "missing" lamp just where he'd left it earlier.

[Reveal] Spoiler: Present: Tomahn 1 at the top of the Shaft
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler: Present: Tomahn 2 midway down the Shaft
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler: Descent: Tomahn 2 midway down the Shaft
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler: Present: Tomahn 3 near the bottom of the Shaft
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler: Present: Tomahn 4 at the bottom of the Shaft
Image

Regarding the differences at the bottom of the Shaft, it looks to me as though again, construction is incomplete at Descent and the mechanism to control the floor and fans has not yet been added. In the meanwhile, a temporary flat faceplate has been installed, probably to cover the hazardous gap in the floor (I guess the D'ni were not partial to orange cones :wink:). Interestingly, when looking at the movable floor from below in the present time, one sees the same compass pattern and apparent mechanism there.

[Reveal] Spoiler: Descent: Floor pattern of the Shaft
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler: Present: Floor pattern of the Shaft
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler: Present: Ceiling pattern of the Shaft floor
Image

A few bonus nuggets: I'd never noticed before that the screws have D'ni writing all over them. And the balcony railings were redesigned some time between Descent and the Shaft's completion.

[Reveal] Spoiler: Descent and Present: Writing on screws
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler: Descent: Balcony rail pattern
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler: Present: Balcony rail pattern
Image

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:34 pm 
I discovered the D'ni writing very quickly during my exploration of the Shaft. I determined that it is the same word repeated over and over, rehtahleeo, meaning The Surface.


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 Post subject: Great Shaft addendum
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:41 pm 
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Shorah once again,

Thanks for that translation DLordofTime--very interesting!

I went back to the present-day Shaft to measure more precisely exactly where all the pathway gaps are in order to see if there is a trajectory (which there is). In the process I saw that I'd neglected to mention a fourth pathway gap up near the very top (sorry I missed posting it earlier). So I will update that information here as well as show what I learned about the apparent rockfall during the construction of the Shaft itself.

[Reveal] Spoiler: The fourth pathway gap is almost at the very top, directly behind the elevator rails
Image

My main goal for this visit was to see if I could plot out a trajectory for the rockfall that broke through the spiral pathway in four separate places. I started by trying to photograph the ceiling at the very top of the Shaft itself. I wanted to see if there were any telltale signs of what might have broken loose from there and exactly where it had come from.

[Reveal] Spoiler: Sadly, the ceiling is both enormous and extremely dim, so I was unable to get any detail in my pictures
Image

Following the trajectory all the way to the bottom proved an easy matter, though. The addition of the central bracing provided a nearby post that, unlike the elevator rails, followed the Shaft nearly to the bottom floor.

[Reveal] Spoiler: The top of the bracing post, just to the side of the first gap. An elevator rail is visible at the right along with the first pathway gap.
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler: Following this bracing post downward, the midpoint pathway gaps are now directly behind the post. This was the point of greatest impact as the damage is most severe here.
Image

[Reveal] Spoiler: Continuing to follow this bracing post downward, the bottommost gap is just below and to the left of the post end cap. The damage here is much less than above, possibly because the rock itself was broken apart at its midpoint impact and the chunk that hit here was much smaller.
Image

So from the perspective in the photo views, it looks as though the rock fell from right to left at a slight angle, bouncing away after each impact (since the overall damage was only sporadic rather than dramatic) but still falling back toward the walls each time. Without using more precise measuring equipment, it's hard to say how much the trajectory may have been changed by each impact, but overall, the trajectory appears largely unchanged from top to bottom. The apparent bouncing may have been influenced by continuous tremors throughout the duration of its fall, but of course, this is mere speculation on my part.

I can only guess regarding the level and location of damage to the Shaft floor since it appears that the repairs there were seamless. I have yet to spot any telltale signs of repairs to the tile work or structures there.

Considering how the very top level of the shaft is built outward, forming a balcony over the spiral pathway itself, I am surmising that it was also badly damaged by the original event and was repaired just as seamlessly as the Shaft floor. Perhaps the damage to the balcony inspired the location for the second elevator; installing the elevator landing there would have been a handy way to repair the damage. But none of the damage to the spiral pathway itself was repaired for reasons I can only guess at. Apparently, the elevators were considered a better solution and the upper elevator was installed some time after this event.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:20 pm 
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I've updated my first article in this topic, which dealt with the Palace complex. Go back to the beginning of the topic to see it.

It now includes a section dealing with the banners hanging on the balcony.

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b'tagamem mot seKem ril ge'Dan Kenen reKElen faex b'sEnem ge'Dan -- lårE leDA
Until next time! -- Larry LeDeay
3 # 11308
The Lost Library of D'ni


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:36 pm 
Regarding the D'ni word you found on the banner, it seems to me that there is at least one letter after the 'ih' at the end. Also, it is not a legitimate D'ni word. My best guess word be D'ninglish of some sort, perhaps German, as it would read Schmedi... when converted out of D'ni font.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:11 pm
Posts: 700
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Totally enjoying this thread. However, unless I'm misreading something, I have to take some exception as to what's been termed as the "real" Shaft or the "real" Eder Tomahn. What's being called "real" is from Myst 5. The Myst series is an interpretive work derived from Katran's writings. If you don't factor in Uru, Myst 5 is the last journey of the Stranger. If you do factor in Uru, it's Watson's journey as taken from his journals. Either way, they are interpretations by Cyan of those events and locations. However, when you are in the cavern, you are actually in D'ni so what you see is the real location. As perhaps a clearer example, we know that Myst was a lot bigger than what was portrayed in the game. I will now don my flameproof armor. Have at it. :)


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