It is currently Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:02 pm

All times are UTC




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 1059 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33 ... 71  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:38 pm
Posts: 1673
Jamie Marchant wrote:
And what if I can't find four people to help me solve a puzzle without being board for they know the answer and I don't want them to spoil it.


You'll find that many explorers like to help re-doing the puzzles over with new explorers- Door Runs especially. Different Explorers have different levels of willingness to help out. I sure don't mind helping explorers out with their ages over and over again. Watching them riddle out the puzzles on their own is part of the fun for me. :)

On the subject of Age Instancing: we should go with what the age owner's want for the age, nothing more, nothing less. It wouldn't be fair to anyone if we just ignored the age writer's intents for an age and made it public or private when it was designed to be a hood instanced place. ;)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:48 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:14 am
Posts: 52
AdamJohnso wrote:
Single player only puzzles (as in, it doesn't reset or wasn't designed for multiplayer) constitute a "very good reason." If you don't like public instances, you can always play the offline game. Drizzle does a decent job of converting MOUL-only content to PotS.


There's one drawback to this reasoning. Multiple puzzles and animations in an age with multiple players triggering them at different times leads to severe lag on the shards. When new ages are released, they tend to get mobbed. Cyan's ages with multiplayer puzzles only have one puzzle per age, effectively by-passing this problem.

Also, resetting a single puzzle is easy, but resetting journey clothes or multipart puzzles is a whole different ballgame. Explorers have taken days to complete some of the more complex (and more popular) fan ages. The ages could be coded to auto reset every three or four days, but that will still mean explorers will enter ages that are at least partially solved, just as they do on the shards. All of the ages Cyan built that incorporate multiple animations, puzzles and journey clothes are private instances, which solves both problems.

If the code only allows for public ages, it will severely limit what type of age can be built and launched successfully, unless someone can think through another solution; maybe don't tell anyone there's a new age to explore, then it won't get mobbed :P .


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:15 am 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 4:41 pm
Posts: 1715
Location: South Georgia
I totally understand. Multiplayer puzzles are a challenge to design* and code correctly. I expect that ages with non-trivial puzzles will basically have to be personal instances--this will be trivial enough to support. I'm aiming to make something more flexible than the mess Cyan has made of linking. The reason I am pushing public ages so very hard is that this is an online game--there are going to be times when things have to be private, but those should be exceptions, not the rule. If you really want your own instance of a public age, you can download the age from UAM and play PotS instead.

* This is the part I have trouble with. Puzzles that reset after 5 minutes as in Champions Online are kind of stupid, IMO.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:26 pm
Posts: 2501
Location: Ontario, Canada
OK, valid points Calumon! I agree with you, age writers should get too decide an ages instance. If an age auther writes a public age with puzzles and you arrive and their are already solved then maybe this is the way it's meant too be. Wassen't the great zero such a puzzle at some point?

EDIT: Note: I posted before Adam but my post ended up after his.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:20 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:14 am
Posts: 52
AdamJohnso wrote:
The reason I am pushing public ages so very hard is that this is an online game--there are going to be times when things have to be private, but those should be exceptions, not the rule. If you really want your own instance of a public age, you can download the age from UAM and play PotS instead.


That's a good point that I hadn't really thought of. Any age built for MOUL can easily be converted for offline play and/or an Alcugs shard, though not vice versa. Personally, I enjoy offline exploring as much as socializing on Cyan's server.

Studying the CavCon stats leads me to believe that a huge majority of players are in private instances online. If there are 1350-1500 unique players a week in the city, I'd sure as heck like to know where they're hanging out. It also leads me to suspect that a very, very small percentage of explorers want to be bothered purchasing offline URU and installing [unmentionable software], though I don't believe stats on [unmentionable software] downloads have ever been published. A certain someone in a position to know these things did once mention to me that the vast majority of players played offline and never went on the shards. There's also the question of whether or not continued dependence on [unmentionable software] is in the best interests of the community.

Leaving the final choice of public or private instancing up to the age authors might be the easiest solution.

Anyways, food for thought.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:26 pm 
Offline
Creative Kingdoms

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 6235
Location: Everywhere, all at once
I would imagine The Guild of Writers and fans generally will have some say and influence along the way of new age development and other content, especially if the author wants their help. This guidance in combination with, or tempering of, the artistic vision of the author should help a great deal.

_________________
OpenUru.org: An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Make a commitment.
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:48 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 2:02 pm
Posts: 819
Location: Switzerland
AdamJohnso wrote:
If you don't like public instances, you can always play the offline game. Drizzle does a decent job of converting MOUL-only content to PotS.

There is a difference between playing offline and playing in a personal instance online. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but I would never have spent as many hours playing offline as I have spent in personal instances online. Aspects I can think of right now include: • Even when you are alone in the age, you are still in contact with others through the KI. • In a personal instance, you can explore with a small group of selected friends.

Just to be clear – I don’t think this was specifically directed at me – it’s not that I don’t like public instances. On the contrary, I’m in favor of having public instances of as many ages as possible (even those that aren’t specifically designed for it). I just do like personal instances, and I’d like to have them unless there is a good reason not to. I’m happy to leave the decision to the author, I’m just asking them to keep the penchants of players like me in mind.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:01 pm 
Offline
Creative Kingdoms

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 6235
Location: Everywhere, all at once
Also, conversion and installation procedures any greater in scope than a simple, automated installer is too hard and too much to ask of the passing interest of most people. Developers who are chafed with laypeople saying things are "easy to implement" when they absolutely are not might have some empathy here.

_________________
OpenUru.org: An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Make a commitment.
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:49 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 7:52 pm
Posts: 1671
Location: Seattle, WA
Christian Walther wrote:
There is a difference between playing offline and playing in a personal instance online.

Just to be clear – I don’t think this was specifically directed at me – it’s not that I don’t like public instances. On the contrary, I’m in favor of having public instances of as many ages as possible (even those that aren’t specifically designed for it)



/AOL (also, sorry about funky typing errors, am mobility compromised ATM)

I'm very fond of both personal instances and public instances of lots of different kinds of ages, and I think the hood instancing is also a good bridge between the two, as well. Puzzle solving ages are easier to code for one person, but evne in Uru, those personal instances of puzzleified ages had the ability for you to invite someone along for the ride.

I'd think, for some of the first few ages, public would be a better choice, because then they can be showed off and shared with a wide audience, saying 'Check us out, we are rocking the new content!' But I really have no doubt, givent the talent that's working on this stuff, that we'll have a wide range of options available to us.

Anybuggy else getting excited? I know I am. :)

_________________
Storyteller, Creatrix, and maker of general mayhem
Unwritten RPG: http://www.unwrittenrpg.com/
KI#00001498
Officially bonked R.E.B.E.L.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:07 am 
Eleri wrote:
Anybuggy else getting excited? I know I am. :)


/me raises hand


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:24 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:14 pm
Posts: 902
...I'm not.

And here's why.

We have limited content creators still in the business of creating content.

We still lack a workable exporter for the majority of those content creators. (Note: 3dsmax has never been fully adopted by the majority of the content creating community, for this game (and is unlikely to be adopted, in the future))

We have a couple of /old/ Ages converted, or exported fresh.

There are few *new* people getting into content creation. And to my knowledge, no new Tweeks, Whilyams, and Rustees. No one with the background knowledge, with the knowledge of the lore, knowledge of the way the engine works, and the artistic ability to make an Age happen.

We also have a community that is /incredibly/ hostile to new content, new story. Anything not made directly by Cyan. (Please don't tell me that's not the case, I've been here long enough to be aware of this - and I could probably dig up posts to prove my point, in fact.)

What are we getting excited about, exactly?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:38 pm
Posts: 1673
kaelisebonrai wrote:
...I'm not.

And here's why.

We have limited content creators still in the business of creating content.


Indeed. That's been the problem for a while now. Too few chefs, too many orders. I'm hoping that once people see that ages are being put in, the interest in age making will expand.

Quote:
We still lack a workable exporter for the majority of those content creators. (Note: 3dsmax has never been fully adopted by the majority of the content creating community, for this game (and is unlikely to be adopted, in the future))


We'll need to get someone on that in the future then.

Quote:
We have a couple of /old/ Ages converted, or exported fresh.

There are few *new* people getting into content creation. And to my knowledge, no new Tweeks, Whilyams, and Rustees. No one with the background knowledge, with the knowledge of the lore, knowledge of the way the engine works, and the artistic ability to make an Age happen.


If I could master age creation, I'd have been at it years ago. :( Maybe now that I have a better computer, I can get to it.

It's sad the way we've forced all of the content creators out of the community to varying degrees. We have no-one to blame for ourselves for that.

Quote:
We also have a community that is /incredibly/ hostile to new content, new story. Anything not made directly by Cyan. (Please don't tell me that's not the case, I've been here long enough to be aware of this - and I could probably dig up posts to prove my point, in fact.)

What are we getting excited about, exactly?


It's true. Quite a few people are against anything "not cyan" and that is absolutely DUMB in my opinion. Cyan doesn't even meet their own "standard" at times. Exactly what I meant by the above "We have no-one but ourselves" line. A few people are hostile to any changes to this game, be they minor or large. My hope is that by getting Sevkor added to URU, specifically MOULa, that attitude will change. I'm excited at the prospect that if we can get things rolling, people's attitudes will changed for the better, and we'll see things change for the better.

Whether it will or not, I have no clue. That's up to the stubborn individuals themselves to decide. But I know that nothing changes unless people try and hope. But that's just me. *Shrug*


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:40 pm 
Offline
Creative Kingdoms

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 6235
Location: Everywhere, all at once
If you're seeing 3ds Max as a barrier, Chogon, earlier in this thread, said he is prepared to see how Cyan can directly take in PRPs instead.

Chogon wrote:
Tech side note: I am not opposed to getting already exported files, i.e. *.prp files, to add into the MOULa build.

http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 439#389439

_________________
OpenUru.org: An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Make a commitment.
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:54 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:14 pm
Posts: 902
JWPlatt wrote:
If you're seeing 3ds Max as a barrier, Chogon, earlier in this thread, said he is prepared to see how Cyan can directly take in PRPs instead.

Chogon wrote:
Tech side note: I am not opposed to getting already exported files, i.e. *.prp files, to add into the MOULa build.

http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 439#389439



No, I'm not, not in the slightest. 3dsmax is currently the only moul-era engine exporter, and that is the barrier. I appreciate that .prps are possible, but without a modern blender exporter, that point is moot. 3dsmax is to a degree a non-viable method for the majority of the content creation community - but right now, it is the only one.

There is of course the old blender 2.49b exporter, but a) that only works for path of the shell, and b) it is non-trivial to get work made in modern (2.6+) versions of blender into the old 2.49b version of blender.

Don't take this as me advocating the change to 3dsmax for anyone still interested in content creation... Because I don't advocate that at all. Just stating that there is still no modern blender exporter, and this is a problem.

Kind of surprised that you're working on the implementation of fan ages in moulagain, and were not aware of these details.


EDIT to add:

Note about older exporter - I believe that the H'uru team is working on tools to convert older content to the newer engine, but... As far as I'm concerned that's an incredibly short-sighted solution.


Last edited by kaelisebonrai on Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:54 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 7:52 pm
Posts: 1671
Location: Seattle, WA
I know quite a few people who have the lore & storytelling skills to make new ages; what they are waiting on is the word- "We've got it working, we know how to build and integrate an age, and there is a procedure for testing & importing ages into MOUL." before they start going to the people with the technical skill to build ages and saying "Here's my idea for an age..." People want a green light before they start driving.

If you're expecting every new age to be built by one person who has All The Skillz, or that anyone who has an idea for an age has to learn how to do the modeling and coding for it to be considered, we'll be waiting even longer for new places to explore.

For many of the people driven away, they're not entirely willing to put out effort only to have the rug yanked out again. Some of us have been through 3 cancelations, umpteen rounds of drama, several community migrations, and a host of upheavals, dissapointments and apathies. Forgive us for being a little gun shy about pouring our hearts into the world.

_________________
Storyteller, Creatrix, and maker of general mayhem
Unwritten RPG: http://www.unwrittenrpg.com/
KI#00001498
Officially bonked R.E.B.E.L.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 1059 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33 ... 71  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: