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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:07 pm 
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A fan nexus belongs in Uru just as much as a bazooka-wielding bahrozilla does. It's an insult to the very premise of the game.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:28 pm 
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A fan Nexus is a means to an end. It helps to establish a process and work toward a solution. It's something rather than nothing - for now. I alluded previously that being able to create a copy of Cyan's Nexus has implications. Think about it. Putting objects into Ae'gura can't happen until we have an agreement to do things like that. I'm not going to get into it right now because it's premature and things won't be clear until we get there. But just getting the Nexus, working on it, and putting it into MOULa is a big deal that might better clear a path to a license solution, for one. Pushing content through should also push licensing along because then there's a purpose. The Nexus is the one thing we currently know is acceptable, so we need to use it as a technical, political, and legal tool to get something done instead of nothing. What happens after that is not set in stone (heh, Stonehenge, get it?). It is a proving ground. Content is malleable. I rather think that once Cyan sees fan content is not a threat, can be done well, and can be managed well within the community without their attention, they might relax a bit, making licensing an easier task to accomplish. Things have a purpose, it's one step at a time, and as Tai'lahr says, the ball is solidly in our court, not Cyan's.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:49 pm 
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So rather than asking Cyan if we can put books in the city, you want to make a copy of the Nexus and to get someone to rewrite the nexus python so that it would be acceptable for the purpose of fan ages. I'm going to tell you right now that the latter is a lot more work than you think it is (It's always disturbed me that the gatekeepers for MOULa contributions know almost nothing about the technical aspects of the game. But I digress...). And I know for certain I'm not going to be doing it.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:36 pm 
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Tai'lahr wrote:
I agree with you, PoK. In an ideal world... only high-quality fan content would be allowed and it would be integrated with a storyline. But, who decides what qualifies? Cyan doesn't have the time to review fan ages and everyone balks at having a community group make those kinds of decisions.


My answer here is, as always, that if Cyan doesn't have the resources to run URU properly then they should stop trying and finish handing it over to the fans.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:49 pm 
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Someone hasta make a compromise somewhere along the line, whether its new content regularly, Fan Nexes of some sort, or leniency on the licensing. sooner or later something got to give.because nothing last for ever

They have something we want, they don't hafta give it to us.

So I would Like to ask the Big Three of CYAN Randi Robin and Tony what do we need to do, what will it take for you to allow us the fans to take Open Source to the next level add new content and bring in more fans
We could help you put Uru Live back on the map but only if you let us

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:34 am 
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As a content creator - someone who has produced content for Uru, an "Age" -> The very thought of a fan nexus offends me.

I would not submit my content to Cyan if I thought my content would be basically ghettoized.

Cyan has not produced content for many years - either produce some (and we know that's not going to happen) or finally hand things to the fans, like they've been saying they want to, for years.

However, I *will* not produce content for the purposes of a Fan Nexus, I was against the Fan Nexus concept when it was originally pitched at the GoW, along with most of the higher quality fan developers.

Stop trying to force it on us - We don't want it, and we won't accept it, especially when this will essentially be us doing Cyan's job for them.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:06 am 
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Any port in a storm, I just wish I had an age importer for max so I can be a high quality fan age developer, I can replicate their meshes pretty good but I am lacking in other department. I never had an opportunity to poke threw their ages in a graphics program so im not sure how they put things together.

I would like to get together with some one like Kaelis who is good at putting things together Im sure if Off Beat artists like myself and the coders got together we could really do some wonderful ages with out using any thing from Cyan but their plug-ins .............. unfortunately we have a graphics program barrier and stuff tens to get lost going from one program to the next

I like to think I do OK for someone who is forced to do everything from scratch and personally if a fan nexes is the only way we can get new content its a small price to pay, somehow a compromise hasta be reached or we will never get new content.

If neither side is willing to compromise then MOULa will remain static and we will never have any new content..

and as far as being ghettoized heck why not Im not Cyan, I don't do Cyan quality ages im self taught and I do Karkadann quality ages but yeah know if ghettoized fan ages is what it takes to put Uru Live back on the Map, then bring it on and let the chips fall where they may.

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Last edited by Karkadann on Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:14 am 
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Gehn shard is not static. I care not about Cyan's shard. ^__^

Gehn shard is run by people who give a kitten about the community - care about artistic integrity, care about Uru. Because as far as I'm concerned, Cyan cares about none of the above, anymore. They might've, once, but no longer.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:25 am 
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I cant say I agree with all of Cyans policies concerning Uru nor do I understand them however if they did not care as you say we would not have MOULa or Open Source, Cyan is a business and a business is out to make money, thier not making any money on MOULa that I know of, so why keep it open it they do not care.

I have no way of confirming this but I heard Uru Live was more of a money pit as far as profit is concerned

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:43 pm 
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From CalumTraveler on the OpenUru forum (he asked for this to be re-posted here as he is having registration issues):

Quote:
Short and simple post here.

Looking at the debate between "Fan Nexus Vs. NO FAN NEXUS!", I think what needs to be done is a simple compromise:

Fan Ages should *ALL* be accessible through a Fan Age Nexus (as most of the current ages through the current Nexus are right now), *however,* fan Ages should also have their respective places in the Game itself. (For example, A garden Age should have a toggle ability in hoods created after their introduction to the game. On Gehn Shard, they're doing just that with the most recently introduced age, adding a toggle book and also running a stained glass project. )

This way, everybody wins. Fan Nexus people get their fan Nexus, and NFN people get their ages in the game. The only question is: "Is Cyan willing to do this?"

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:31 pm 
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I think Calum misses the point. I believe Cyan doesn't want any fan age books anywhere other than a fan nexus because it's the easiest way to identify them ALL as fan ages. And, I guess they feel this is necessary so they can post a disclaimer to that effect. And, this is what makes some fans feel like those ages are being dumped into a ghetto.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:37 pm 
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Following up on Tai'lahr's thoughts, here's what I posted in response over on Open Uru…

I am in favor of the Fan Nexus idea. It's not an attempt to ghettoize content, but rather a way for Cyan, on their shard where they are responsible for the content, to say that the fan-created content isn't endorsed or created by them as a company, removing their liability for any potential issues if something slips through that isn't appropriate (content-wise, not in terms of story). It's also a way to make lots of fan content easily accessible in the long run. Read RAWA's e-mail that JWPlatt posted (emphasis mine):

RAWA wrote:
It keeps all the fan-created Ages easily accessible from one place, and acts as a gateway that lets players know "You are now leaving Cyan-designed Uru" kind of thing. If the player chooses to visit one of the fan-created Ages (IC - "Explorer-restored Ages"), and something inappropriate is on the other side… we didn't do it. :)


Now, I also like the idea of curated fan content making into the game somehow, so I have this longer-term suggestion:

After the Fan Nexus is added, what if we allow Hood owners to select a fan age or three as featured ages in their Hood? This lets the community create a "list" of the best content, and it encourages people to visit multiple Hoods to see what ages are featured. This way, we can leave the City pedestals open for Cyan to use if they get a chance (which it seems is their desire), and lets us have a way to bring the best content to the forefront.

(I have no idea how this would work or how hard it is to make happen… I'm an idea person and this is just an idea. Do with it what you will!)

Also, consider this… If Cyan were to let us put fan books onto the City pedestals, what happens if we (crossing my fingers now) reach CAVCON 5 and Cyan wants to make their own content? Do you think the fan books are going to stay in the City? I doubt it. Then we'd have even worse hurting of feelings (not to mention player confusion) if somebody's great fan age gets removed from the City to make way for Cyan's new content. Better to not set up such a situation in the first place. :-) Never mind… Tangential and unnecessary.

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Last edited by Malfhok on Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:18 pm 
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Your last paragraph contrives an unlikely situation not really worth the tangential distraction to this discussion, but the rest is good. Once we get our foot in the door - speculating now - I hope Cyan will become comfortable enough to support doing something with the hoods. That seems a more natural place in terms of story and logistics for fan showcases than throughout Ae'gura.

AdamJohnso wrote:
...asking Cyan if we can put books in the city...


This was a constructive suggestion, thank you. I have asked. The path of least resistance and the consensus remains the Nexus. It is my hope that it will allow everyone - Cyan and the community - to become acclimated until more can be done to accommodate your wishes.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:59 pm 
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JWPlatt wrote:
Once we get our foot in the door ...

This should be the real goal right now. Walk before you run, etc. Once the fan ages are in MOULa, perhaps some will prove popular enough that Cyan will consider them for placement in other areas. Let's just get them in there for now.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:20 pm 
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I like how my suggestion of an alternate stamp has been fairly ignored since it makes ghetto-izing fan content in a fan content nexus fiery abyss age absolutely unnecessary. A fan age nexus should never be added to this game. It is an insult to content creators and a waste of the precious time of people who want to spend their time writing useful game code.

If you really want to "just get things done" keep in mind that this was the attitude during the development of MOUL, which led to abominations such as a Great Zero linking book in the Neighborhood, confusing hood instances, poor IC explanations of instancing, and the pod ages. Do you really want for more crap like that to be added to the game, compounding the content problems it already has?

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