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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:23 pm 
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Reltopages being out of bounds does not necessarily mean all Relto additions are.
On the other hand Relto is a "Cyan" age.
It seems that adding fan content to Moula is impossible without some leeway here and there. Does this include Relto additions or not? And if so to what extend?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:14 pm 
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Marten wrote:
- Let's understand exactly why work on exporters is stalled and what needs to happen to move it forward. Can someone explain what it would take for the community to change its collective mind about 3dsmax, however unlikely it may seem?


At the risk of being flamed for being a party pooper, I will attempt to answer some of your questions with objective facts.

- I'm not certain what you mean by *the community changing its collective mind* about 3dsmax. The problem the content creating community has with this software is that the only version of the software that can be utilized to create and export new content into the MOUL game engine is 3dsMax7. That version of the software is considered obsolete and no longer available to purchase. This is also why so few people in the community own a legal copy of the software.

Marten wrote:
And if that really is not going to happen, what does need to happen, and how can we as a community encourage and support the necessary efforts? Are we facing resource problems (people who want to work on the issue) or are there other bottlenecks? Difficulty in producing content in a MOULa-compatible file format is a serious issue.


- Yes, we are facing resource problems. The resource for creating a new plugin compatible with Blender and MOUL is (AFAIK) Hoikas. He's already explained several times that he needs to prioritize schoolwork to graduate from college over writing code for this community. I don't know of anyone else in the community with the knowledge and skills to build the plugin. This is not what would be called a beginner/intermediate coding challenge. It requires an expert in the MOUL game engine that can write both python and C++ script (again, AFAIK).

Marten wrote:
These lovely pictures of projects are just lovely pictures if they can't be imported into the game.


- matthornb is building in Blender, which can be exported to offline URU, though not to MOUL. It would be helpful if he could provide actual in-game screen shots, rather than these renders. The type of lighting and shading in these shots won't export into the game, so the final results will be quite different than what we're seeing here.

Marten wrote:
- Although I'm not certain anyone really implied that the GoW is an army of minions looking for someone to point them to the next thing to build, Kaelis is right that the GoW isn't that. Bringing an idea to fruition requires more effort from a visionary individual than just selling people on a great idea.


-What the community of skilled, knowledgeable content creators isn't is an army of anything. It is a handful of people who do this in their spare time for their own enjoyment and satisfaction.

Marten wrote:
- As for community members who are hostile to new content - well, it's good to be reminded that they are there. The community should be strategic in minimizing the impact of naysayers on the rest of us. Let's remember not to feed trolls.


Amen to that.

Flamesuit on and zipped!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:33 pm 
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tommyap wrote:
Reltopages being out of bounds does not necessarily mean all Relto additions are.
On the other hand Relto is a "Cyan" age.
It seems that adding fan content to Moula is impossible without some leeway here and there. Does this include Relto additions or not? And if so to what extend?

We don't know if adding Relto pages is in bounds or out of bounds. The simple fact is that at this point we don't know what Cyan will or won't permit on the MOULa servers, which makes your latter questions unanswerable. I have formed my own opinions over what Cyan's approach might be, but it's just my opinion.

Indeed, some latitude on adapting the existing MOULa content is required to get fan ages into MOULa: To begin with that is whatever needs to be done to implement the "gateway" to fan ages (I use "gateway" as an all-encompassing term to cover all the methods that have been proposed for accessing fan ages, without prejudice towards any particular solution), and I believe Cyan are prepared to make whatever concessions might be necessary to allow the essential work to take place. But how much further the license to adapt Cyan's ages will go is anyone's guess right now.

Anything that RAWA wrote back in 2008 would have been written with the MORE concept in mind and meshing fan content with Cyan content without conflict: That doesn't mean it's now irrelevant, as much of it was about directing people towards good writing practices, and it's probably a fair assumption that Cyan will still see those guidelines as pertinent for MOULa. But the permissible scope may be just a little wider now than it was in 2008.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:41 pm 
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Mac_Fife wrote:
Anything that RAWA wrote back in 2008 would have been written with the MORE concept in mind and meshing fan content with Cyan content without conflict: That doesn't mean it's now irrelevant, as much of it was about directing people towards good writing practices, and it's probably a fair assumption that Cyan will still see those guidelines as pertinent for MOULa. But the permissible scope may be just a little wider now than it was in 2008.


That's what I figured, but I don't know what RAWA has said about this since then, if anything. Those guidelines from 2008 are the most thorough statement I can remember Cyan giving on the topic at any point in time, then or since. If things start moving forward as far as Moula fan content now, we'll probably need some clarification on things like this from the powers that blue.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:31 pm 
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RAWA hasn't said anything further, as far as I can recall, and it's probably now moving from being something that RAWA can set the rules on (which would pretty much have been the case with MORE) to something that needs the consideration of Cyan as a whole. Some of the answers will come with the 'Content License'. Others will just need to be worked out over time.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:37 am 
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Ruth wrote:
- I'm not certain what you mean by *the community changing its collective mind* about 3dsmax. The problem the content creating community has with this software is that the only version of the software that can be utilized to create and export new content into the MOUL game engine is 3dsMax7. That version of the software is considered obsolete and no longer available to purchase. This is also why so few people in the community own a legal copy of the software.


Actually Max 7 is no longer the only version of Max that the plugin can be compiled for. The plugin can now be compiled for various versions, including the most recent, of 3dsMax. The problem is and continues to simply be the price of 3dsMax is too expensive for just passing interest in fan creation. Hence the Blender plugin being the best viable option for everyone.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:50 am 
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As far as Relto Pages are concerned

Im not to sure about how to add Relto pages using the xYeeshaPages python file but the xYeeshaPages python go's up to 100, only the first 20 or so are actual Relto Pages. I dont know if its Kosher but you can add one of Cyan's Relto Pages to a fan age however I don't think any one has figured out how to use this python file to add a fan made Relto page to an age however im assuming since the number go's up to 100 they did intend to add more Relto pages somewhere along the line

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:44 am 
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I forget where I read this but I think it was on open uru website that they were talking to Rand Miller about fan ages. Well in the interview he discussed two options one was having a extra page in the nexus that would be cleaner and better but another would be to have another nexus book specially designed for fan ages to keep cyan content separated . Another thing he noted was how it would fit into the story because you could not have fan ages all appear suddenly. My solution and tell me what you think is you could say fan ages are the abandoned projects or projects that the DRC were working on but never got finished. If I'm misquoting anything let me know.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:44 am 
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zeke3651,

I'm going to recap a little history for the benefit of this thread. A lot has transpired since you read Rand's remarks.

CAVCON was dropping some months ago and Mac_Fife mentioned to me that maybe we should begin fan content efforts in earnest and resume our licensing work. The thought was that software updates alone will not provide the measure of success MOULa really needs. MOULa needs content and fan content is the only way to get there. So I started a dialogue with Cyan. It was not an interview, but an email discussion that included Tony, Rand, RAWA, Chogon and me. After a time, I related to the community the preliminary thoughts coming out of that discussion on page 2 of this thread that I cross-posted on OpenUru.org or was quoted elsewhere - please take a look.

viewtopic.php?p=389186#p389186

After much discussion in this thread, I related back to Cyan a summary of the strong community response and proposed this alternative plan to accommodate it - please take a look:

viewtopic.php?p=389849#p389849

All at Cyan liked the proposal.

I also discussed these results at the October All Guilds Meeting (AGM) along with a lengthy discussion about fan content. The news of that AGM can be found here along with the chatlog that includes my remarks a little more than halfway down:

News: http://www.guildofmessengers.com/en/con ... tober-2012
Chatlog: http://www.guildofmessengers.com/sites/ ... ansed.html

This is where the plan stands. There are other issues to work out on the fan side and with Cyan. On the fan side, there's the issue of a MOULa-compatible exporter than will take work done in Blender or 3ds Max and produce PRP files that MOULa can use. kaelisebonrai discussed the problem here:

viewtopic.php?p=390679#p390679

At OpenUru.org, we need to get work completed on a content licensing proposal. We plan to present a compilation of that work to the community for comment as soon as it is done, but before it is given to Cyan for approval.

In the meantime, software update testing continues on the OpenUru.org Minkata shard and we could use your help. See how here:

http://forums.openuru.org/viewtopic.php?f=108&t=685

Everything is done in our spare time. I've had none until very recently because of a project that consumed my time for many months but is now mostly done, though not quite. And there may be another large one coming - maybe (and hopefully) essentially endless. So I intend to resume license work shortly to get it done before something else comes along to absorb my time and support my family. ;)

Edit: Fixed pbpBB3 links

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Last edited by JWPlatt on Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:28 pm 
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any updates on Sevkor

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:16 am 
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Jmp12 has composed some music for the age, and I'm still making steady progress.

Thanksgiving was a big distraction as we had a lot of family over. I think that slowed everything down as I wasn't working on Sevkor at all from Nov. 20-25. Too much else was going on.

Will try to have an update ready to post in the next few days. One that is fairly substantial.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:48 pm 
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Music composed? Glad to hear it!

....BLUH. No matter how many times I try to write that sentence, it always ends up sounding like a lame pun. >_<:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:42 am 
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Okay - update.

I'm working on a massive library section with over 80 possible spaces for linking books.

There's a stairwell up to the library, and the library has a window looking out into the shaft.

I've modeled the entire space but am not yet finished texturing and lighting it. From a pure geometry standpoint this area is pretty elaborate - it has a higher polygon count than everything else in Sevkor combined.

I won't post images until I'm happier with the texture art, but I think it's very likely I'll be ready to show this by the end of tomorrow.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:42 pm 
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Fantastic news, Matt! You've obviously poured a massive amount of time and effort into this project and we all appreciate your hard work and dedication. Eighty slots for books?! Let's hope that's enough. :P Or rather, let's hope that's not enough. :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:58 pm 
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Thanks for all your hard work on this, Matt. It's greatly appreciated. :)

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