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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:01 pm 
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Ainia wrote:
Shorah Kath!! :)

I guess it all depends on the assumptions we are forced to make about the D'ni since we have so little demographic information about them. I posted a bit about this here, and have been assuming that a normal D'ni lifespan is anywhere from 280-380 Terran years. Since we don't know much about how gracefully the D'ni aged (and whether their aging process accelerated in any way during their later years), all we can do is make a best guess for now.

So I have been equating Atrus reaching the age of 280 to being the rough equivalent of a human reaching the age of about 80. And, naturally, our own views as Terrans will influence which age range we happen to consider "elderly" for humans! For myself, I tend to see age 80 as "elderly" for Terrans since humans of lesser ages commonly are still active and productive.

Another way to look at it for Atrus and his age: he's currently about 2/3 through a long D'ni life span; or he's getting close to the end for a short D'ni life span. Keep in mind that "life span" in my old post takes into account accident, disease, etc. (i.e., events that would foreshorten an otherwise healthy D'ni life). So I think leaving such events aside, it's reasonable to expect a D'ni to reach the age of 300 if he's healthy.


I just wanted to point out that at the age of 259 Atrus is already near the end of his lifespan. As seen in Myst V, in 2005 he was an old man hobiling on cane. Catherine has already passed. In human turns Atrus looks to be in his mid to late 80's. Remember he's mostly human at this point. So his aging process will be shorter than a full blooded D'ni's. If Gehn is alive somewhere it's reasonable to assume that he and Atrus now look to be about the same age.

And yes, Myst V is canon according to Uru. While the design and gameplay may be a representation by Cyan, the actual events that took place in the game have been experienced by Watson. So at the end of the game, Watson freed the bahro and went to live on Releeshan with Yeesha and an elderly Atrus.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:02 pm 
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Shorah Chloe! (wave)

Yes, I agree that EoA is canon and have found the aged appearances of both Yeesha and Atrus there a bit... mysterious. Thankfully, Tweek has recently posted the answer to this oddity.

Tweek wrote:
Originally Myst 5 was set 50 years after the events of Uru until it was retconned with MOUL.

In digesting the canonic meaning to this, it makes me rather sad that we never experienced the EoA episodes in cavern as Cyan apparently had originally intended. It would have been one wild ride!

But in regards to the D'ni and aging, I'm afraid EoA doesn't offer much in the way of helpful new data. If those events are 50 years in the future, then Atrus's age would be about 298 and Yeesha would be 238 (counting forward from 2005, when Watson went on his quest), which matches their visual appearance quite well. But then the presence of Esher and his visually similar age to Yeesha is even stranger since he claims to have been alive at the time of the fall (which would make Esher *well over* 310 years old!!). Overall, EoA seems to have been written/designed to present a great many conundrums regarding time, something that I believe was never presented to us as intended and so has never been explored properly by the explorer community.

The notion that aging is a genetic trait is a whole different topic and presents other paradoxes with our known canon. For instance, Gehn was about 70 when the Stranger met him on Riven, a fairly young age for a D'ni, yet he looks to be about 70 human years in age. Making sense of this in terms of dominant/recessive genes... well, that deserves discussion in its own thread. Although it's tempting to think of our genetic traits as "wearing off" or "getting stronger" over the generations, it doesn't really work that way.

Anyhoo, if folks want to discuss this, I'd be happy to start a new thread! I think it's an absolutely fascinating aspect of the D'ni and our understanding of their history. :D

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:08 am 
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Ainia wrote:
Shorah Chloe! (wave)

Yes, I agree that EoA is canon and have found the aged appearances of both Yeesha and Atrus there a bit... mysterious. Thankfully, Tweek has recently posted the answer to this oddity.

Tweek wrote:
Originally Myst 5 was set 50 years after the events of Uru until it was retconned with MOUL.

In digesting the canonic meaning to this, it makes me rather sad that we never experienced the EoA episodes in cavern as Cyan apparently had originally intended. It would have been one wild ride!

But in regards to the D'ni and aging, I'm afraid EoA doesn't offer much in the way of helpful new data. If those events are 50 years in the future, then Atrus's age would be about 298 and Yeesha would be 238 (counting forward from 2005, when Watson went on his quest), which matches their visual appearance quite well. But then the presence of Esher and his visually similar age to Yeesha is even stranger since he claims to have been alive at the time of the fall (which would make Esher *well over* 310 years old!!). Overall, EoA seems to have been written/designed to present a great many conundrums regarding time, something that I believe was never presented to us as intended and so has never been explored properly by the explorer community.

The notion that aging is a genetic trait is a whole different topic and presents other paradoxes with our known canon. For instance, Gehn was about 70 when the Stranger met him on Riven, a fairly young age for a D'ni, yet he looks to be about 70 human years in age. Making sense of this in terms of dominant/recessive genes... well, that deserves discussion in its own thread. Although it's tempting to think of our genetic traits as "wearing off" or "getting stronger" over the generations, it doesn't really work that way.

Anyhoo, if folks want to discuss this, I'd be happy to start a new thread! I think it's an absolutely fascinating aspect of the D'ni and our understanding of their history. :D


Except Tweek is incorrect. There has never been a canocial time of reference for Myst V other than MOUL. I don't know where Tweek's getting his reference for Myst V taking place 50 years after Uru, because that's never mentioned anywhere in game, nor any interview I can find. All we knew until MOUL was that Myst V took place after Uru. It could have been a year, it could have been ten, there was no way to really know. It was speculated that it took place 50 years because of the age of the characters. However that was cleared up with the events of MOUL in which we learn that Myst V took place 2 years after Uru. The discrepancy then becomes Yeesha's ge in Myst V vs her age in Uru. Which can of course be chalked up to the fact that a real life actor's face was used in the game vs a uv mapped static texture like in Uru.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:41 am 
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....gaaaaaah. Y'know what, I think I'm just going to handwave canon errors from this point as being another branch of the Great Tree. A slightly different reality. I mean, if Cyan can overlook Dni/the Cleft being in New Mexico instead of Turkey/Arabia, I think I can play around with the timelines some.

If anyone asks, the story takes place before the events of Uru, when Watson is an active part of the DRC and is opposed to Yeesha. Deaths are not a major problem yet and the Bahro are in the background. And it takes place in an alternate universe where the DRC wants to keep D'ni secret. Also the Myst games do not exist.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:00 am 
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Sorry Afalstein! :D

If nothing else, your prose has inspired some interesting conversations here! Your solution is probably the simplest way to move on with the storyline.

[Reveal] Spoiler: Chloe:
Tweek is a former Cyan employee and he's typically careful to label his personal opinions/theories as such. So I tend to take his commentary about the world of Uru pretty seriously. As you say, there's nothing in formal canon or interviews to back up his statement (and indeed, his recent comment is the closest I've ever seen to such a thing regarding this particular bit of D'ni history). At least for me, his comment cleared up a whole flock of question marks that have been hovering over my head for a number of years. :) However, they are being rapidly replaced by a new flock. :?

Bottom line, we have no definitive statement from an unassailable source (i.e. Rand or RAWA) on this and probably won't get one. So interpretation is left up to each of us individually, which is half the fun! :wink:

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