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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:17 pm 
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Click and drag, Tai. Though I guess you found out, since you just edited your post :P

Also, Rand's KI # is publicly available? I don't remember seeing this mentioned elsewhere... I'm only aware of Chogon's number, which he said was 124 (IIRC) in one of the server recovery status updates.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:33 pm 
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dgelessus wrote:
Click and drag, Tai. Though I guess you found out, since you just edited your post :P
lol, Caught me. :wink:

dgelessus wrote:
Also, Rand's KI # is publicly available? I don't remember seeing this mentioned elsewhere... I'm only aware of Chogon's number, which he said was 124 (IIRC) in one of the server recovery status updates.
Yes, but he's referring to Rand's number as of March 9, 2011.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:53 pm 
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Tai'lahr wrote:
OHB wrote:
Let me ask you this: given that Rand's KI number was publicly available, do you think a few people added him as a buddy, or lots?
Well, lots, but not everyone. Okay, I think I found it, now.
[Reveal] Spoiler:
842 - because it's the tiniest, greenest dot

I think I found my number, too. :mrgreen:

One point for Tai!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:47 pm 
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It works wonderfully, OHB ... :P

It is of course a heavy load for FF and the computer, but not all of the time, sometimes it builds itself up nicely and fast, sometimes it takes more time, esp. when you adjust a lot with zooming in and out etc. and shifting the whole to the right or left, but most of the time it is beautiful to just watch the building up, the rearrangement and the connecting of the dots etc. ... Yeah, I think you have a lot of fun with such things, working esp. with databases in manifold, creative and elegant ways ...
Very nice, thanks for sharing much of this with us ... :D

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:25 am 
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ghaelen wrote:
...As each person (theoretically) moves, the relational lines would move. Is that right? Can you imagine the 3D image of it?
Well, yes, I can! :)

It would be way cool to see even a 2D dynamic animation of the graph as the network changes over time.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:54 am 
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Awesome, OHB! Beautiful and fascinating to explore.

I would be interested in knowing privately which number I am (Christian Walther, KI 93841), but I agree that the whole public graph is better off with fully anonymous dots.

It would be interesting to see what the clusters are that you have identified (not on the interactive graph, just labeled on a screenshot). There seem to be different varieties of clusters and I’m curious if explanations can be found why they look the way they do.

It occurred to me that the buddiness graph may not necessarily provide a complete picture of the social relationships among players: Many of my closest Uru friends are not on my buddy list – because they are my neighbors! There was never a need to add them to the buddy list because I already see them on the neighbor list. Taking into account neighborness as additional edges probably wouldn’t lead to anything sensible either though, as the number of edges grows quadratically with the neighborhood size and it would soon drown out the buddy edges, neighborhoods are disjoint so you would just get disconnected clusters, and neighbor relationships can span a large range of social proximity that you have no way of quantifying. Maybe coloring the dots by neighborhood would be interesting though?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:35 pm 
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JWPlatt wrote:
It would be way cool to see even a 2D dynamic animation of the graph as the network changes over time.

I agree! Unfortunately, the vault doesn't store the date a reference was created, or if it does it isn't exposed.

Christian Walther wrote:
I would be interested in knowing privately which number I am (Christian Walther, KI 93841), but I agree that the whole public graph is better off with fully anonymous dots.

Check your PMs :)

Christian Walther wrote:
It would be interesting to see what the clusters are that you have identified (not on the interactive graph, just labeled on a screenshot). There seem to be different varieties of clusters and I’m curious if explanations can be found why they look the way they do.

Some of them I can identify, some of them I can't. I'll put something together.

Christian Walther wrote:
It occurred to me that the buddiness graph may not necessarily provide a complete picture of the social relationships among players: Many of my closest Uru friends are not on my buddy list – because they are my neighbors! There was never a need to add them to the buddy list because I already see them on the neighbor list. Taking into account neighborness as additional edges probably wouldn't lead to anything sensible either though, as the number of edges grows quadratically with the neighborhood size and it would soon drown out the buddy edges, neighborhoods are disjoint so you would just get disconnected clusters, and neighbor relationships can span a large range of social proximity that you have no way of quantifying. Maybe coloring the dots by neighborhood would be interesting though?

I had the same thought re: neighbors...although I was curious about how many people that would apply to. I really never use the neighbors list personally. Coloring the dots by neighborhood is possible, but there were 5,747 hoods on that date and not enough colors :)

I may see if I can find a way to add lines for neighborhood relationships and re-layout the graph just to see if anything interest emerges.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:53 pm 
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OHB wrote:
I had the same thought re: neighbors...although I was curious about how many people that would apply to. ... Coloring the dots by neighborhood is possible, but there were 5,747 hoods on that date and not enough colors :)

I may see if I can find a way to add lines for neighborhood relationships and re-layout the graph just to see if anything interest emerges.
Rather than attempt to give each neighborhood a different color, wouldn't it still give a good visual picture of how things were if you simply displayed the names of the avatars with hood names? But, I suppose that would only work for the ones that were obvious or well-known and not for every explorer who created one with their own name (which is probably good because some might prefer their privacy). It would still be interesting. I wonder if the Uru Obsession hood achieved the same level of membership over the last four years that it did during MOUL. (Oops, that would be a much later date, but you get my point, I'm sure.)

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:25 pm 
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The Network Photo came up nice and fast. Yay! for my new monster PC, and yay! for such an intriguing interactive image. It's cool to see how it looks - our community networked together.

Is this a snapshot of one 'moment' in time on March 9, 2011? Or is this an image of the cumulative interactions among explorers/the bot/don'tknowhowtoaskthat on that day?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:49 pm 
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ghaelen wrote:
Is this a snapshot of one 'moment' in time on March 9, 2011? Or is this an image of the cumulative interactions among explorers/the bot/don'tknowhowtoaskthat on that day?
As I understand it, it's a snapshot of every avatar in existence on that day with lines linking to the avatars they had on their Buddies list at that moment.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:55 pm 
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Tai'lahr wrote:
ghaelen wrote:
Is this a snapshot of one 'moment' in time on March 9, 2011? Or is this an image of the cumulative interactions among explorers/the bot/don'tknowhowtoaskthat on that day?
As I understand it, it's a snapshot of every avatar in existence on that day with lines linking to the avatars they had on their Buddies list at that moment.


Ok... so if someone wasn't online at the moment, they would not appear in the snapshot? I'm just trying to get an idea of the actual scope of the Cavern population in a visual way.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:01 pm 
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ghaelen wrote:
if someone wasn't online at the moment, they would not appear in the snapshot? I'm just trying to get an idea of the actual scope of the Cavern population in a visual way.

Oh, I see your point. No, I don't believe they had to be online at the time. It's a record of the current avatars in existence in the vault on that date.

And, I should probably shut up now and let OHB clarify. :oops:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:04 pm 
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Tai'lahr wrote:
Oh, I see your point. No, I don't believe they had to be online at the time. It's a record of the current avatars in existence in the vault on that date.

This.

Tai'lahr wrote:
And, I should probably shut up now

And that. j/k!!! :)

Yeah, so I have what amounts to almost a backup of the game from that date. (Some bits are newer than others so it's not a true backup). I used it for going statistical analysis. So, what's in the image is every avatar that existed at that time and their friends.

I'm playing around with the idea of adding in the neighborhood connections, but it's such a massive amount of data...although it is pretty! Here's what it looked like when it was 50% of the way through the initial layout (click to embiggen):

Image

You can see all of the little clusters forming, most likely because of the smaller neighborhoods.

This is a MASSIVE amount of data (1115406 edges), so I need to trim the data set a bit. I tried a number of things and decided to not include neighbor connections for DRC hoods. Why? Because that eliminates avatars stuck in their hoods who never did anything but still have 50 connections because they're in a DRC hood. Yes, I realize some people stayed in their DRC hood just because, but I've got draw the line somewhere. And, joining another hood is something you do because you want to be with those people. That to me is a clear indication of a good connection. (It also reduces the number of connections from 1115406 to 290920)

More to come when I get something manageable.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:29 pm 
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OHB wrote:
Check your PMs :)

Thanks! Interesting, I’m smack dab in the middle, with connections all over the place, but not to any of the obvious clusters. That appears to match quite well with my self-perception. :)

OHB wrote:
Coloring the dots by neighborhood is possible, but there were 5,747 hoods on that date and not enough colors :)

You’re still on a VGA screen? :P Choose distinctive colors for the ten or so biggest hoods and leave the rest gray. All the one-man hoods aren’t interesting anyway in that view.

The preliminary neighborhood connection picture looks neat too! What are the bluish triangles? Are they arrowheads on edges?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:07 pm 
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OHB wrote:
Tai'lahr wrote:
Oh, I see your point. No, I don't believe they had to be online at the time. It's a record of the current avatars in existence in the vault on that date.

This.


Thank you both. This gets better the more I understand it.

Quote:
...although it is pretty! ....

You can see all of the little clusters forming, most likely because of the smaller neighborhoods.

This is a MASSIVE amount of data (1115406 edges), so I need to trim the data set a bit. I tried a number of things and decided to not include neighbor connections for DRC hoods. Why? Because that eliminates avatars stuck in their hoods who never did anything but still have 50 connections because they're in a DRC hood. Yes, I realize some people stayed in their DRC hood just because, but I've got draw the line somewhere. And, joining another hood is something you do because you want to be with those people. That to me is a clear indication of a good connection. (It also reduces the number of connections from 1115406 to 290920)


It sure it pretty! And fascinating.

While I also understand that some people stayed in the DRC forums, I also understand the need to trim. I only kept some 'characters' (alts) in the DRC hoods when I didn't know where to put them.

And, if it ever became necessary in order to trim even more fat off the bones, I could give you the name of a 'story' hood that doesn't need to be on the network, either.

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