It is currently Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:00 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 106 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: D’ni mottoes
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:55 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:04 pm
Posts: 516
Location: A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away.
larryf58 wrote:
.khoy SemtE yer b’bahrel chor bahkh mreroon

There's not enough chor bahkh for the number of "no"s I have for this. D'ni does not have independent subject pronouns. Say it with me. "D'ni does not have independent subject pronouns." Ok, good. The subject pronouns are always suffixed. The independent pronouns are all oblique. What that says is "If I wish you(pl) to make chor bahkh from nothing..."

_________________
Aka KathTheDragon (literally everywhere else on the internet)
Moula KI: 00005310
DI KI: 00205116
tumblr: kaththedragon


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: D’ni mottoes
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:42 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:04 pm
Posts: 1015
Location: Macon, MO
larryf58 wrote:
korovev wrote:
.kO yertE b'barel cor bak mrerUn
.khoy yertee b’bahrel chor bahkh mreroon*
If you (plur.) wish to make chor bahkh from scratch, first you need (plur.) to produce the Tree of Possibility.


Oops. Looks like a typo. You don't actually have the word "you" in the first clause. What you have is "If wish(pl) to make". So, add "you(pl)" to it and we get:

.khoy SemtE yer b’bahrel chor bahkh mreroon

You're also missing a comma between clauses in the D'ni version, and commas are part of the known punctuation. No reason why it shouldn't be there. Your choice, though.


Hmm. I did get this wrong. "yer" as a root verb implies "I wish". However, I was right that "yertee" is not correct. Instead, it should have the suffix -omE.

.khoy yeromE b’bahrel chor bahkh mreroon
If wish-your(pl) to-make chor bakh from-the-zero
That is, "If it is your(pl) wish to make chor bakh (from scratch)"

_________________
*
.yer seKtE yartE Sorat -- lårE leDA
Until next time! -- Larry LeDeay
3 # 11308
The Lost Library of D'ni


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: D’ni mottoes
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:59 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:07 pm
Posts: 1162
Location: Central Europe
–tí is a verb suffix: “you do”.

–omí is a noun genitive suffix: “your book”.

Is yer a verb root or a noun? As far as I know, D’ni never has an implicit kenen...

_________________
KI #46116. Donate to help the Cavern stay open!
Want to know what’s going on in the Cavern? Get tweets from the GoMe.

MacOS wrappers, D’ni Lessons, DniTools, goodies.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: D’ni mottoes
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:02 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:04 pm
Posts: 1015
Location: Macon, MO
KathAveara wrote:
There's not enough chor bahkh for the number of "no"s I have for this. D'ni does not have independent subject pronouns. Say it with me. "D'ni does not have independent subject pronouns." Ok, good. The subject pronouns are always suffixed. The independent pronouns are all oblique. What that says is "If I wish you(pl) to make chor bahkh from nothing..."


Was there really any call for being so nasty and condescending about it?

_________________
*
.yer seKtE yartE Sorat -- lårE leDA
Until next time! -- Larry LeDeay
3 # 11308
The Lost Library of D'ni


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: D’ni mottoes
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:06 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:04 pm
Posts: 1015
Location: Macon, MO
korovev wrote:
–tí is a verb suffix: “you do”.

–omí is a noun genitive suffix: “your book”.

Is yer a verb root or a noun? As far as I know, D’ni never has an implicit kenen...


I'm working with the idea it's a verb, although that's on rather thin ice. It's based on the side note that RAWA gave for the use of yeret in Pepsi's eulogy, "we wish it". Since that's the only example, I can't say "yes" for certain. Call it a reasonable extrapolation.

-om is "your" in singular form. -omE is "your" in plural form. So if "yer" is a verb, then "yeromE" makes perfect sense for the use, IMHO.

_________________
*
.yer seKtE yartE Sorat -- lårE leDA
Until next time! -- Larry LeDeay
3 # 11308
The Lost Library of D'ni


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: D’ni mottoes
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:27 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:07 pm
Posts: 1162
Location: Central Europe
I think you’re mixing ‘wish’ as a verb and ‘wish’ as a noun; look at the reconstructed conjugation table:
Code:
1s: yer     1p: yeret
2s: yerem   2p: yertí
3s: yeren   3p: yerít

If we had yertav, then yes, yertavomí would fit.

_________________
KI #46116. Donate to help the Cavern stay open!
Want to know what’s going on in the Cavern? Get tweets from the GoMe.

MacOS wrappers, D’ni Lessons, DniTools, goodies.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: D’ni mottoes
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:54 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:04 pm
Posts: 1015
Location: Macon, MO
Sorry. I realized what you meant later. When I wrote my reply, I wasn't really thinking clearly because I was put off balance by KathAveara's rather harsh comments.

Yes, in that sense, I'm using yer as a noun. However, it still makes sense -- to me, at least -- since I'm still treating the definition as "desire to do". In effect, it's the same way "wish" is used as both a verb and a noun in English.

Since I can't think of a better word for your sentence, that's about as good a way of phrasing it as I can come up with. Is it correct? Maybe not. The question is, is there anything better? yertE doesn't cut it either if we treat it solely as a verb, since that still carries the implied singular personal pronoun "I" and -tE can't be attached to a verb. Or did I misread that in your sentence?

However, you may have solved the problem yourself. Why not use yertavomE?

_________________
*
.yer seKtE yartE Sorat -- lårE leDA
Until next time! -- Larry LeDeay
3 # 11308
The Lost Library of D'ni


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: D’ni mottoes
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:19 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:07 pm
Posts: 1162
Location: Central Europe
Just like in English, you can have ‘if you wish (v.) to’ (.xó yertí b’) and ‘if your wish (n.) is to’ (.xó yertavomí kenen b’); I translated the former :wink:

Both are plural; the singular would be .xó yerem and .xó yertavom kenen.

_________________
KI #46116. Donate to help the Cavern stay open!
Want to know what’s going on in the Cavern? Get tweets from the GoMe.

MacOS wrappers, D’ni Lessons, DniTools, goodies.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: D’ni mottoes
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:34 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:04 pm
Posts: 1015
Location: Macon, MO
Okay, then I'm obviously missing a subtlety.

Ah! Got it. I was mistaking -tE meaning "you(pl)" (2nd person plural actor suffix) for -tE meaning "-s" (plural suffix). Dratted homonyms. I'm not used to them in D'ni. Objection withdrawn.

_________________
*
.yer seKtE yartE Sorat -- lårE leDA
Until next time! -- Larry LeDeay
3 # 11308
The Lost Library of D'ni


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: D’ni mottoes
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:46 am 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:07 pm
Posts: 1162
Location: Central Europe
There are two that I’d like you to check, one for The Open Cave and one for the Fabulous Magical Treasure:

.bregalpo rilesa tAnEen SemtE
.bregahlpo rilesah (ril-lesah) tayneeehn shehmtee
The Open Cave welcomes you

.relenaok xosatav pracizal Dooenazoen b'lAsU SemtE
.relenahokh tsosahtahv prahchizahl dooenahzoen b’laysoo shemtee
The Amazing Treasure Journey is hoping to carry you (take you away)

_________________
KI #46116. Donate to help the Cavern stay open!
Want to know what’s going on in the Cavern? Get tweets from the GoMe.

MacOS wrappers, D’ni Lessons, DniTools, goodies.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: D’ni mottoes
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:53 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:04 pm
Posts: 516
Location: A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away.
korovev wrote:
.relenaok xosatav pracizal Dooenazoen b'lAsU SemtE
.relenahokh tsosahtahv prahchizahl dooenahzoen b’laysoo shemtee
The Amazing Treasure Journey is hoping to carry you (take you away)

What's the English you're trying to render in that last part? If it's "take you away" you could probably use b'shento shemtee metomet "to take you from here"

_________________
Aka KathTheDragon (literally everywhere else on the internet)
Moula KI: 00005310
DI KI: 00205116
tumblr: kaththedragon


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: D’ni mottoes
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:07 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:04 pm
Posts: 1015
Location: Macon, MO
Sure. I'll try to be helpful.

korovev wrote:
.bregahlpo rilesah (ril-lesah) tayneeehn shehmtee
The Open Cave welcomes you


There is no 'b' in the Ferry Terminal message. That makes it "To the cave not sealed welcomes you(pl)". rilesa is a neologism of not and sealed, understood. It'll do until we learn a real word for open. I'm just not certain that the second l should be dropped. Are there any examples of that happening in other texts?

And that's it. The sentence otherwise matches the FT sign. So this is okay until we know better:
.regahlpo rilesah (or rillesah[?]) tayneeehn shehmtee
The-cave not-sealed welcomes-it you(pl).

Quote:
.relenahokh tsosahtahv prahchizahl dooenahzoen b’laysoo shemtee
The Amazing Treasure Journey is hoping to carry you (take you away)


The-journey-of [possessions] amazing wishing-it to-carry you(pl)

The only thing I can see wrong with this is the lack of a word for "away". We have a guess at one.
tomeh tome [away (?), from (the) place (?)]

That gives you:
.relenahokh tsosahtahv prahchizahl dooenahzoen b’laysoo shemtee tomeh

metomet means "from here" if you use tomet as the root. If you use the homonym me-tomeh-t, it doesn't quite work, since -t is defined as:
-t -t. Suffix forming adjectives of tendency or direction.
...and we are looking for "away" as an adverb rather than an adjective.

So, you could use either tome or metomet, but I think tome matches better with the Beatles quote.

_________________
*
.yer seKtE yartE Sorat -- lårE leDA
Until next time! -- Larry LeDeay
3 # 11308
The Lost Library of D'ni


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: D’ni mottoes
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:46 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:04 pm
Posts: 516
Location: A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away.
larryf58 wrote:
If you use the homonym me-tomeh-t, it doesn't quite work, since -t is defined as:
-t -t. Suffix forming adjectives of tendency or direction.
...and we are looking for "away" as an adverb rather than an adjective.

Why would you do that, though?

_________________
Aka KathTheDragon (literally everywhere else on the internet)
Moula KI: 00005310
DI KI: 00205116
tumblr: kaththedragon


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: D’ni mottoes
PostPosted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:14 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:04 pm
Posts: 516
Location: A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away.
.erTlena meSafEtE famel gloen terTKElen fa
.erþlena mešafítí famel gloen terþkílen fa
A journey of a thousand* miles begins with a single step.

*As it happens, famel spans is about 961 miles.

_________________
Aka KathTheDragon (literally everywhere else on the internet)
Moula KI: 00005310
DI KI: 00205116
tumblr: kaththedragon


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: D’ni mottoes
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:40 am 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:07 pm
Posts: 1162
Location: Central Europe
larryf58 wrote:
There is no 'b' in the Ferry Terminal message [...]
I'm just not certain that the second l should be dropped. Are there any examples of that happening in other texts?

Oops, the ‘b’ is a leftover from a previous neologism (agomalain bregalpo), now outdated of course.
The ‘l’ drop follows the te(l)lúk pattern.

metomet seems safer; tome is one of those words that make Crossword looks like a list of uncomplete words (or possibly roots of words) :D

_________________
KI #46116. Donate to help the Cavern stay open!
Want to know what’s going on in the Cavern? Get tweets from the GoMe.

MacOS wrappers, D’ni Lessons, DniTools, goodies.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 106 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yandex [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: