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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:38 pm 
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Jamey wrote:
Thx so much for clearing all this up RAWA!! :D

One question, if we are not allowed any of yeesha's "powers", does that mean we cannot make relto pages?


SCGreyWolf is correct. Yeesha's Relto pages are off limits. Other collectibles would not be off limits, though the guidelines for props, clothing, etc. do not exist yet, either.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:40 pm 
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So, someplace in D'ni, accessable by Nexus, that could be wildly speculated about is ok? Whee!


What about things like items, and people? Fan run characters?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:44 pm 
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Thanks so much RAWA for answering my first question! :) I have one other that I'd really like to have answered:

You see, in my age, I have a linking book to the hood instance of The Great Library in Ae'gura. It is not a custom instance I made myself, it would just lead to the hood instance Ae'gura like the book on your Relto bookshelf in MOUL did. Would this be against the rules because I have it in my age in general, or is it allowed since I didn't make the instance of the age myself (a custom instance)?


Thx again!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:54 pm 
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Are we allowed to put clothing Items in our ages, that will appear in someone's wardrobe?
Can we put a copy of The book of Atrus in a bevin? or would that fall under copyrighted


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:04 pm 
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Whilyam wrote:
So, just to be clear, I could "restore" a section of D'ni itself, but only if it were some self-contained place? Does that mean it cannot have a view of the lake or would that be similar to how we explain why the neighborhoods all see the same spot in the City?


The specifics of these guidelines are still in flux. So I don't have a definitive answer to your question.

But here are my thoughts, in case unofficial comments will help to give an idea of what's currently intended.

The main point of the guidelines is to minimize contradictions as much as is humanly possible. An area of D'ni with a view of the lake is more likely to cause a contradiction than one that doesn't, so my personal preference would be to lean toward areas that don't have a view of the lake.

Part of the Fan Created Art License is that if we make changes that affect your work, you are responsible and required to change your work to match up with the new information. So in this case, if, hypothetically, the Arch of Kerath were destroyed, and you can see the Arch of Kerath from your area, that's going to cause a contradiction, and you're going to be responsible for keeping your area in compliance to that agreement.

So... my initial instinct would be to start with strict rules to minimize potential conflicts, as it is always easier to start with strict rules and loosen them as we go as it is to start with loose rules and try to tighten them as we go.

Does that help, even if it doesn't give a concrete answer?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:09 pm 
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RAWA wrote:
Whilyam wrote:
So, just to be clear, I could "restore" a section of D'ni itself, but only if it were some self-contained place? Does that mean it cannot have a view of the lake or would that be similar to how we explain why the neighborhoods all see the same spot in the City?


The specifics of these guidelines are still in flux. So I don't have a definitive answer to your question.

But here are my thoughts, in case unofficial comments will help to give an idea of what's currently intended.

The main point of the guidelines is to minimize contradictions as much as is humanly possible. An area of D'ni with a view of the lake is more likely to cause a contradiction than one that doesn't, so my personal preference would be to lean toward areas that don't have a view of the lake.

Part of the Fan Created Art License is that if we make changes that affect your work, you are responsible and required to change your work to match up with the new information. So in this case, if, hypothetically, the Arch of Kerath were destroyed, and you can see the Arch of Kerath from your area, that's going to cause a contradiction, and you're going to be responsible for keeping your area in compliance to that agreement.

So... my initial instinct would be to start with strict rules to minimize potential conflicts, as it is always easier to start with strict rules and loosen them as we go as it is to start with loose rules and try to tighten them as we go.

Does that help, even if it doesn't give a concrete answer?

Sure. So I could have an area with a view of the lake, but if there were a contradiction I'd be responsible for changing it to reflect that.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:24 pm 
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Eleri wrote:
So, someplace in D'ni, accessable by Nexus, that could be wildly speculated about is ok? Whee!


What about things like items, and people? Fan run characters?


The guidelines in this thread are pretty much limited to answering the questions of "Hey, I want to make a story, can I use <insert name of Cyan character>?" or "Hey, I want to make an Age, can I use <insert name of Cyan Age>?" or "Hey, I want to make a story, can I reveal that the D'ni <insert revelation about the D'ni>?"

The answers to which are: we're trying to provide as much flexibility as we can while trying to maintain continuity as much as possible.

Items - separate guidelines will be created... eventually.

Fan run characters - I don't see these changing much from MOUL. Fans made all kinds of characters and character-oriented stories within the Cavern. You'll still be free to do that.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:25 pm 
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Hey RAWA. :) I know you're getting flooded with clarifications, but I had a couple I wanted to add:

1: What would be the ruling on some minor Age made by the Writers, or a Caterers' Granary Age? In one sense, it is creating "new information" about the Ages that a major Guild had. However, it reminds me of your justification for an Age visited by Veovis: the act of Veovis visiting an Age is nothing significant, since he probably visited many Ages. It would also be similar to having an old Maintainer's Seal on a Book -- it's adding new information about the Ages that the old Maintainers approved, but since every legit Age had to have a seal, it's not significant information. In the same way, some random Writers' or Caterers' Age would be nothing special, since the Caterers, for example, would have had a large number of Granary Ages. So such Ages would not seem to violate the rule of thumb of Section Three, since they would not be likely to contradict Cyan or other Writers.

2: Fan-made areas in D'ni must be self-contained. Does this include with each other? Could a group project like Ahra Pahts work to create some D'ni district that is self-contained, but fans are able to set up areas inside it?

3: In coming up with new practices of parts of D'ni society, must a sequestered group be denoted as the sole participator in those practices? For example, if there was an Age that had some sort of food exported to D'ni (by the Caterers or no), would the designer of that Age have to say that the food was only eaten by a small group in D'ni society? Or, if there was a game Age, would that game have to be explicitly made as popular only to a certain group, even if the Age-designer was doing no other work on developing a small group?

Or, could the Age-designer leave the question open, not saying "This food was a fine D'ni delicacy and very popular among the Kings," but simply saying "Here is an Age where D'ni foods were grown" and not going into the question of the sphere of influence of that food?

4: I would assume that a newly-designed Prison Age could not have been for a criminal who had attempted an assassination of a King, or some other nefarious deed which had Cavern-wide consequences or effects on the society. However, I assume that a Prison Age for a less high-profile murderer would be OK. Is there a particular limit to the area of influence this criminal could have, or could it be left as a crime of indeterminate effect on society?

5: Regarding your mention of making areas that "could be" Faresh's mansion, would Cyan eventually be in the business of choosing if it is or not, as a way of having fans create canon like that with Cyan guidance?

EDIT: And I just want to say that I do like the idea of having the focus of UCC providing a more textured and varied D'ni society instead of treating it as the monolithic (heh... stone ;)) entity that has somewhat been seen in earlier Cyan works, and definitely in fans' imaginings of D'ni.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:38 pm 
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Jamey wrote:
You see, in my age, I have a linking book to the hood instance of The Great Library in Ae'gura. It is not a custom instance I made myself, it would just lead to the hood instance Ae'gura like the book on your Relto bookshelf in MOUL did. Would this be against the rules because I have it in my age in general, or is it allowed since I didn't make the instance of the age myself (a custom instance)?


So you essentially just found a second copy of the City Book in your Relto? Off the top of my head, it seems like that should be OK.

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Last edited by RAWA on Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:42 pm 
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Justintime9 wrote:
Are we allowed to put clothing Items in our ages, that will appear in someone's wardrobe?
Can we put a copy of The book of Atrus in a bevin? or would that fall under copyrighted


Clothing - yes. Under separate guidelines, though.
Book of Atrus - no. Copyrighted material.

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Last edited by RAWA on Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:49 pm 
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Ok, this is going to seem a convoluted question but...

Is MORE itself canon? That is, will the things that happen from the point MORE goes live be assumed to be taking place in the real URU universe, or is MORE a holding pattern alternate reality, and we may, at some point, find our way back to where Uru happens? Should we, in MORE, be taking into account Yeesha and the Bahro War, and what's up with the DRC, and what's Engberg and Watson up to (even though we may not get answers to those questions) or are they in stasis until such time as Cyan can move back into storytelling?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:59 pm 
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RAWA wrote:
Jamey wrote:
You see, in my age, I have a linking book to the hood instance of The Great Library in Ae'gura. It is not a custom instance I made myself, it would just lead to the hood instance Ae'gura like the book on your Relto bookshelf in MOUL did. Would this be against the rules because I have it in my age in general, or is it allowed since I didn't make the instance of the age myself (a custom instance)?


So you essentially just found a second copy of the City Book in your Relto? Off the top of my head, it seems like that should be OK.



My journal that is in my age actually says I wrote the book on the surface and brought it to my age, but I think it would still work for my age either way. (correct me if I'm wrong)

Thanks a million again RAWA :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:01 pm 
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Ahvree wrote:
A "story setter upper" has to say or not, because it would give away the red herring to say a storyteller only wrote red herrings. Anyway...say a storyteller (not the same as an age writer) were to create a character who will take explorers willingly on an Uncle Wiggly branch of a story that requires some allusion to canon, but the character(s) is eventually found out (someday)?

This is an interesting question to me because it invokes the OOC "fourth wall." I suspect your idea would be okay (but don't take my word for it) if the canon your were pretending to introduce turns out to be a lie, unless the revelation of the lie implies a truth which goes against RAWA's policies. But what I really find interesting about this is if we know these OOC policies, the red herring is inherently exposed because we know the direction we are being led will not be possible.

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Last edited by JWPlatt on Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:03 pm 
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1) Are there limits on what the surface backstory of a character can be? Can all of my characters be, say, famous archeologists/Millionaires/Professional Wrestlers/All of the above as long as the above writing limits are adhered to?

2) How about places on the surface? What if I want to make an 'age' that is a gas station in New Mexico? My garage? If purely story elements, how much can I fiddle with details of real places? Can I make up fictional places on the surface?

3) Is there any way we can have a few minor details clarified for background purposes?
Such as:
* Where do new people get their Relto books?
* How much do surface governments know about D'ni?
* Do explorers ever make it home when 'going to the surface'? Are they just considered to link to the cleft and find theirway home, wherever that is?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:12 pm 
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An example posed in the rules was an isolated section of the city accessible via the Nexus...
This implies a couple of issues:

1) Nexus link
The most common mechanism for adding a link in the Nexus is to register it using a Nexus pedestal. Are we allowed to copy the Nexus pedestal for this purpose? Is there a restriction as to whether the registered link is Public or Private?

2) Initial Access
If the Nexus is the means for revisiting a new area, there must be a way to get there initially since the area is isolated. The only example of this I can think of is the Yeesha portal leading to K'veer. Are we allowed to create floating portals (of our own pattern design) or should we create some other non-book means for linking? I assume these portals would also have to be located in fan-created areas. Are we allowed to create something like a Bahro tablet for linking? If we access the area via a book, the Nexus link seems redundant.

David Tierce

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