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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:45 am 
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I have noticed that starting with MOULagain, Cyan seems to be following a similar roadmap to the one released for MORE in 2008. For awhile that roadmap seemed abandoned once open source was announced, but MOULagain has somewhat brought us back onto a similar road. For the fun of it, I have posted the old roadmap below, and how it compares to what is happening today. Note: I can place this in a spoiler tag to save space, but it makes it harder to read the quotes.


Quote:
ROADMAP

MORE servers will be restarted. These will be run by Cyan and run on machines that are either owned or leased by Cyan. The software and game assets will be as it was when Myst Online was shutdown on the GameTap servers. However, all accounts and avatars from the GameTap servers will not be available and will have to be re-created.

This step was completed with the launch of MOULagain in February.

Quote:
There will be some restructuring of MystOnline.com to accommodate the new direction of MORE. Including the forums and the policies running the forum.

Much of this was completed around December 2008 when open source was announced. The forum policies were updated about a month ago.

Quote:
Release of the 3ds Max Plasma plugins for creating MORE content. Release of the source for the plugin (only) to the Guild of Writers. This will allow for the easier creation of fan created tools as well as being able to use what Cyan used for creating Myst Online content.

The plugin was released in March. The source code for it will eventually follow, as well as the source for all the tools. In April, we got the source for the KI and the wave e-mote.

Quote:
The Guild of Maintainers (in conjunction with the Guild of Writers) will act as an agent in approving fan created content creation for MORE.

Create methods and processes for testing fan created MORE content. How this will work has not been determined but is crucial for fan created content. Then a process will be created to bring Guild of Maintainers final approved and tested content forward to main server for all users to enjoy.

Last we heard, much of this was up in the air. The process for approving content has not been declared yet. I think that it is most likely that the guilds will play a role, as intended. How much of a role is yet to be seen. As for testing, RAWA has stated that one of the next steps is to get a test server running.

Quote:
Release binaries for a few front end servers to be run on fan run servers (front end shards). These fan run servers will have to be registered with the Cyan server and will help alleviate bandwidth issues. These front end processes will be limited to game servers and file servers. All authentication and avatar databases would still be handled by Cyan servers. This way a user needs only one account with all their avatars, no matter what front end shard they connect to. As a matter of fact, accessing the front end shards will be seamless for the user, and they may never know (or care) which one they are running on.

Create processes and release binary updates to the front end shards so that shard owners can host specific age game instances (such as a particular Neighborhood) and be able to control the states of that instance. End users will not have to do anything special other than link to that age and they will be routed to the shard that is hosting it. This will allow the front end shard owners to provide unique experiences on the age instance that they host. (By the way, the states the front end shard owner’s change will only affect the instance of the age they are hosting and will not affect other age’s states, even if it is the same age.)

These steps have changed with open source now in the mix. I would assume that Cyan will still eventually release server binaries and that the servers will connect with the MOULagain server and run specific instances of an age or location. Of course, it is planned that the source for all the servers and the client will eventually be open sourced. This probably means that some independant shards will show up along with the ones connecting with the main MOULagain pool of servers.

Quote:
(Pie in the sky milestone!) Cyan Worlds will create new content and storyline. This may be done solely by Cyan or in conjunction with the Guilds.


It sounds like it may be possible for us to see a new clothing item or something similar pop up in the not too distant future (perhaps with CAVCON 5). If anything bigger happens, it may be not be until a long time from now. Still, we could someday see Cyan return with more of their specific storylines and new places.


Last edited by EccentricOne on Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:22 am 
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note, however, that we have no open source stuff at /all/ right now. We have the source /data/ for the KI, and the wave emote, but neither of these have the thing that makes open source things, open source. An open source license. As we have *no* license, let alone an OSI-Approved, or FSF recognised open source/Free (as in speech/Libre) Software license, we do not have anything from Cyan that classifies as "open source". =) Again, we have source /data/, and that is somewhat of a step forward... but, without a license we cannot /do/ anything with it, and it is in no way shape or form, open source. =)

However, it is interesting to note that several things in the MORE roadmap are appearing to happen, and in roughly the order they were planned... curious.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:15 pm 
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I don't think that MORE and OS are mutually exclusive. In fact, I think that they can be complementary.

Setting aside for now the lack of licences, etc., which I agree rather stymies the OS side of things: I think many of us, once the Open Source plan was announced, rather assumed that Cyan would not try to run their own server, but would instead provide a server for Cyan's Age data (leastways, that's what I inferred). So MOULagain was a bit of a surprise. But I think that maybe Cyan still see the MORE model as something that they'd like to do (for their own shard) and that can be run alongside/ahead of the OS model.

It sounds like the next step along the way is likely to be a Test Server. Whether that gets used for "Content" (e.g. fan ages) or "Code" (e.g. KI enhancements) or both remains to be seen, but it may allow some things to be adopted before we see "proper" Open Source.

When (if?) OS becomes a reality, we could still see Cyan using the MORE model to adopt new material into the MOULagain shard. I guess if you think about it, irrespective of any option for Open Source, if Cyan run a shard and want to include any fan contributions then the result isn't going to look too dissimilar to MORE.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:33 pm 
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The problem Cyan needs to avoid is partnering heavily with one portion of the fanbase over another. It's immediate preference will likely always be "canon" fans over "non-canon" fans. That is, they will favor those who use the game to tell stories very much like Cyan's (and, in general, not be terribly creative since it will be difficult for fans to tell big new things about D'ni society) over those who use the game to have fun in a general sense.
Personally, I would prefer that Cyan not run their own shard and let interested players start up their own IC shards, etc. It would free Cyan of the costs of running a server and stop one shard from having an inherent benefit from the beginning.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:39 am 
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Nice to see the old MO:RE roadmap is still hanging around in spirit even if a few of the wheels seem to have come off the rails. I've a slightly different take on things from Cyan's bequest then most other people seem to be taking. Despite the best intentions of some Cyan has with a stroke given all fans a stable foundation if they want to learn to develop content. It's no longer a question of learning the model program and a un integrate plugin, if you can run Max7 you can see the entire plugin laid out in the menu system. I expect that will be the next big pyprp revision once Blender leaves Alpha status again.

Judging the roadmap against the released KI source and Max7 Plugin, my bets on nothing much out of Cyan for months? It's a huge chance for fans to move away from Uru:CC and start a serious move to MOUL. However it goes things are bound to be awkward as people with a advantage strive to keep it, and those that were rebuffed by Pyprp's teething problems seize Cyan's Plugin as the first Stable Plugin any Fan in this community has ever had access to. Mac_Fife's probably right that the next big thing is a test server, or a local server implementation (My view) that people can load their stuff into for testing. I'm personally a little disappointed no one has started playing with the KI yet, but I am sure that is another thing Cyan is keeping half a eye on.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:09 am 
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Fan created stuff is exciting but its not why I'm here. If fan created Ages are added to MOULagain then I'll visit them and explore them respectfully I consider fan created content as an alternative. A diversion.. a side-story if you will. The story Cyan began nearly a decade ago and the world that they created resonate with me in ways nothing else ever could. If there are fan "shards" I'll check them out and play in them as one who goes to an art exhibit and oohs and aahs about structure and technique.. But I'll always come home to whatever Cyan has running. If Cyan steps out of Uru and it becomes permanently fan-run with none of their guidance or influence, that will be the day I finally leave the cavern behind me. I pray that day never comes.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:28 pm 
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I'm all for fan ages. I haven't visited any of the existing ones yet, but have my copy of Complete Chronicles installed and will sometime soon try out some of the existing fan ages.

But I completely agree with Loshem. It's the Cyan-run shard that will draw me - the beauty of the original cavern and ages, and the hope that at some point Cyan's story will continue.



By the way, did anyone see that sinkhole in Guatemala? Not to belittle the trouble they're having over there, but looking at that hole can't you just imagine some bahro climbing (or flying) out of it?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:52 pm 
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Whilyam wrote:
The problem Cyan needs to avoid is partnering heavily with one portion of the fanbase over another. It's immediate preference will likely always be "canon" fans over "non-canon" fans. That is, they will favor those who use the game to tell stories very much like Cyan's (and, in general, not be terribly creative since it will be difficult for fans to tell big new things about D'ni society) over those who use the game to have fun in a general sense.
Personally, I would prefer that Cyan not run their own shard and let interested players start up their own IC shards, etc. It would free Cyan of the costs of running a server and stop one shard from having an inherent benefit from the beginning.


So, you would prefer Cyan should not run their own shard because more players would go to it? :shock:

Creativity loves difficulty. I think you'll be surprised, both at the depth of creativity which will emerge under the "limitations" of whatever Cyan says is allowable under "canon" (if indeed they do), and at the speed with which the "unlimited" shards will run out of steam, with nothing to channel and shape their creativity. I could be wrong on both counts, of course, but that's the way I'd bet.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:54 pm 
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Quote:
I don't think that MORE and OS are mutually exclusive. In fact, I think that they can be complementary.
I agree, but I think that the cost model may be different, Cyan funded by subscription and the rest of the shards by donation.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:04 pm 
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Zander_the_Heretic wrote:
Whilyam wrote:
Personally, I would prefer that Cyan not run their own shard and let interested players start up their own IC shards, etc. It would free Cyan of the costs of running a server and stop one shard from having an inherent benefit from the beginning.


So, you would prefer Cyan should not run their own shard because more players would go to it? :shock:

Creativity loves difficulty. I think you'll be surprised, both at the depth of creativity which will emerge under the "limitations" of whatever Cyan says is allowable under "canon" (if indeed they do), and at the speed with which the "unlimited" shards will run out of steam, with nothing to channel and shape their creativity. I could be wrong on both counts, of course, but that's the way I'd bet.

:shock: OMG! Whilyam hates Uru! :P

As I mentioned, the primary reason is to eliminate costs with the side benefit that it levels the playing field. Creativity loves one set of rules for everyone. Not: Here's the creator's shard! . . . oh yeah and here's some others.
Also, considering the Slackers have stuck around for longer than most people here (whilst have their credibility, morality, loyalty, and integrity attacked), I think it's safe to say the unlimited shards will be here long after we all die of old Age.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:28 pm 
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Whilyam wrote:
As I mentioned, the primary reason is to eliminate costs with the side benefit that it levels the playing field. Creativity loves one set of rules for everyone. Not: Here's the creator's shard! . . . oh yeah and here's some others.

Except, this is not a competition, so there's no playing field to level.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:14 pm 
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Simone wrote:
Whilyam wrote:
As I mentioned, the primary reason is to eliminate costs with the side benefit that it levels the playing field. Creativity loves one set of rules for everyone. Not: Here's the creator's shard! . . . oh yeah and here's some others.

Except, this is not a competition, so there's no playing field to level.

That's not true. Uru as a game and shards as part of that game are competing for people's interest. On one level, interested fans mean his/her shard is popular. On another level, interested players may like the shard enough to donate money or time to the owner, which has obvious benefits. It's nice to think this isn't a competition, and by no means is this some stereotypical "winner-take-all" competition, but in reality it is a form of competition.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:25 pm 
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Whilyam wrote:
...Creativity loves one set of rules for everyone. Not: Here's the creator's shard! . . . oh yeah and here's some others.


Even within the context of the rest of your post, this sticks out like a sore thumb and has been quoted a couple of times so I should ask what you are trying to mean when you say that "Creativity loves one set of rules for everyone."

That seems in opposition to anything like a truthful statement.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:39 pm 
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It's fairly obvious to me what Whil means.

At least, here's my interpretation...
The act of being "creative" is best done across the board when people are not restricted in superficial ways. His mention of the creator's shard (Cyan) vs anything us (us) is night and day battling it out.

While I see how this could reduce Cyan's costs etc. I still think it's a good option to allow a "vanilla" server run by Cyan. Something guaranteed to be around as long as the project is around, and not able to be deemed "tainted" by any side of any argument, because it's nothing more than the basics. From there, I can see shards branching off based on any guidelines that are set upon people, and picking out specific areas of interest.

Shards are a good idea, but my ideal setup would be the main Cyan shard, with our private contributions branching out from it. Instancing is already heavily used, so if there can be a way to setup internal game connections I see that as a way to go (even though it could take a LONG time to make.) My approach is more of a "support everything or support nothing" approach so that no one feels left out. It still allows us all to share while minimizing any competition that shards could have to peers and communities within our global community.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:52 pm 
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Adhering to the rules and history of the fictional universe for which you want to create content is *not* a "superficial way" to restrict creativity. I wrote this many times in many ways... but if the history of western art is not enough for people to understand the relation between rules and creation, there's not much left to say on this subject for me.

About competition... well, Cyan created Uru, so I could say that it's unfair if shards other than Cyan's are allowed to use Ae'gura and other canon Ages. (I know I'm exaggerating to prove a point... but there is a point!) It is unavoidable that a certain section of fans will always look at Cyan's server (if it exists) with more... affection than other shards. Uru is Cyan's, after all. So what? It just means that a section of fans may not be very keen on what "non-canon" shards have to offer. On the other hand, Cyan's shard would probably have restrictions that are not enforced elsewhere (e.g. no flying, no dancing Bahros, etc...), so I guess that's a way to "level the playing field".

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