It is currently Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:36 am

All times are UTC




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 469 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 32  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 1:04 am
Posts: 4134
No link to public Ae'gura from the hoods, please. We need to fix dumb instancing issues, not make more of them.

_________________
-Whilyam
Cavern Link:My IC Blog


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:58 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 1:58 am
Posts: 528
Location: France
draggosh wrote:
Yes, but we don't know what would have happened if Ubisoft continued pushing the online version. It might have flopped or it might have been the greatest Myst game ever with a huge fanbase. All we know is they cancelled it and pushed multi-player content into a single-player game, then in 2006-2007 GameTap picked it up and they even considered a 2nd season when they decided to pull the plug because it was too expensive. Note, however, that Ubisoft might have had more money than GameTap, and could have kept Uru afloat for a while.
Most people do not understand Ubi's stance on all this. They did *not* kill it too early.
Uru was not taking in enough subscribers, and looking at the current plans (marketing, community, and development) Ubi did not see a way for things to improve and new people to subscribe in significant numbers. They had hoped that the 'Myst' name alone would allow for Uru to sold millions but it did not, and the only way to enhance that situation would be to throw in a lot of money to dramatically increase both marketing and development efforts. And that was simply too risky of a bet for them. So rather than wait for another year and see no changes (Gametap story) they canned it right away. It was brutal, even seen from the inside, but it was the right decision for them at the time.
It is also interesting to see that at the time (late '03, early '04) Ubi tried to enter the MMO market with a couple games, but it didn't go flawlessly (for various reasons) and they became wary, so they they flagged Uru as 'risky' and eventually moved away.

Kaelis wrote:
Simone wrote:
Let me note also that "getting the KI" would not be the huge problem we're making out of it, if the default 'hoods were much more populated than they are now.
They won't be, ever. So the problem will always stand. =)
That can actually be solved because the problem doesn't come from the fact that we don't have enough people, but it comes from the current system of assignation to default DRC hoods.
Assigning new explorers to automatically created 'DRC' hoods is a problem because it essentially leads to a bunch of empty hoods and many of the few people who are in there are newcomers who, by definition, don't know much yet about the game and who cannot help other newcomers. And we simply need more (and more experienced) people in the default hoods. So that needs to be addressed. One way to solve that would be to assign newcomers to GoG hoods. And make it so that much more new people can be assigned to these hoods than the current DRC hoods number. These numerous people should then be directed to join (or even create) another hood so as to not limit the spots in those GoG hoods with empty 'squatting' accounts. The default hoods should only be a transitory thing for newcomers; much like the entrance of a building: you are welcomed by the receptionist, you ask some questions, you look at a map on the wall, and then you move on.
Although that doesn't solve the fundamental question of the beginning of the game: multiplayer cleft or not?

Zander wrote:
I once surmised that if the Cleft were really realistic, by now there would be a sort of shanty town grown up around the caldera
As part of the 'multiplayer cleft' scenario that would definitely make a lot of sense, and having a GoG stand here would certainly help newcomers. (let's be honnest: Zandi is a nice guy; but he doesn't cut it. ;) )
The big problem with that scenario is that it is the only starting point and it could get crowded if more than 10 new people join the game at the same time. Unless we go back to whole instancing business. *shudders*


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:55 pm
Posts: 625
One of the things that needs to be done before instancing can be fixed (as I was discussing on CyanChat a few days ago) is to do what we can to make age player limits a *lot* bigger. There really aren't a huge number of messages sent over the network, so something in the game or server code is being very inefficient to have the sort of caps we see currently.

If we can fix those performance issues, a public cleft is not out of the question.

Speeking of public clefts... I would also propose the doors to Yeesha's home be locked in the public instance, and available in a private instance (basically from Relto->Cleft to solve the cleft puzzles, as is done currently). That way Yeesha's puzzle can still be done, and the Journey can begin there, but we can also use the cleft as a sane starting place for multiple players.

_________________
MOULagain KI #: 66990

When I was your age, we rocket-jumped up hill both ways in boiling lava.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:10 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:14 pm
Posts: 902
aloys wrote:
Kaelis wrote:
Simone wrote:
Let me note also that "getting the KI" would not be the huge problem we're making out of it, if the default 'hoods were much more populated than they are now.
They won't be, ever. So the problem will always stand. =)
That can actually be solved because the problem doesn't come from the fact that we don't have enough people, but it comes from the current system of assignation to default DRC hoods.
Assigning new explorers to automatically created 'DRC' hoods is a problem because it essentially leads to a bunch of empty hoods and many of the few people who are in there are newcomers who, by definition, don't know much yet about the game and who cannot help other newcomers. And we simply need more (and more experienced) people in the default hoods. So that needs to be addressed. One way to solve that would be to assign newcomers to GoG hoods. And make it so that much more new people can be assigned to these hoods than the current DRC hoods number. These numerous people should then be directed to join (or even create) another hood so as to not limit the spots in those GoG hoods with empty 'squatting' accounts. The default hoods should only be a transitory thing for newcomers; much like the entrance of a building: you are welcomed by the receptionist, you ask some questions, you look at a map on the wall, and then you move on.
Although that doesn't solve the fundamental question of the beginning of the game: multiplayer cleft or not?


Move on to where?

DRC 9X (not sure, but one of my avatars i don't use is in it)... still has people in it... people who haven't visted for some time...

DRC 45X (again not sure, but my ki-stuff-storage avatar is in it) has people, and people haven't been to the hood in 3 months!

They never left their DRC hood, what makes you think they'll move on if its under the GoG? also, has anyone spoken to the GoG about this, before they're co-opted? I wouldn't be surprised if my main avatar's DRC hood, DRC 7 (either that, or 5 or 6 (Same one as Tweek, and Whilyam were in)) still had people in it.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:29 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 10:02 pm
Posts: 2266
Location: Tigard, OR
aloys wrote:
Most people do not understand Ubi's stance on all this. They did *not* kill it too early.
Uru was not taking in enough subscribers, and looking at the current plans (marketing, community, and development) Ubi did not see a way for things to improve and new people to subscribe in significant numbers. They had hoped that the 'Myst' name alone would allow for Uru to sold millions but it did not, and the only way to enhance that situation would be to throw in a lot of money to dramatically increase both marketing and development efforts. And that was simply too risky of a bet for them. So rather than wait for another year and see no changes (Gametap story) they canned it right away. It was brutal, even seen from the inside, but it was the right decision for them at the time.


As I understand it (based on my memory of past discussions with those who were involved), Ubi pressed for Uru to launch before the Christmas season - and so Uru hit shelves in early November 2003. Then, Ubi gave the game less than 2 months to hit the target number of subscribers. The date for the cutoff was December 26 - the day after Christmas. The reason for this thinking was that most sales of a game are when it is brand new (the first month it is on shelves) - just like with movies, the first few weeks of sales are typically a good indicator of how successful your game will be. There aren't many "sleeper" or "cult" hits that become popular later. Ubi placed the deadline after Christmas Day on the idea that all of the copies bought for Christmas would be opened by then, and that this would be a good indicator of how many people were going to sign up overall.

This would have been fine if Ubi hadn't made two important mistakes, and then refused to budge on their expectations.

(1) The default install behavior of the game is to not create the online account, then passive-aggressively complain to the user about not creating an account even though the default was to not create one.

(2) A flyer distributed with the game indicated that players would receive a short complimentary free period in the online game, then they would be billed a fee for continuing access. But the game shipped with 5 Ages worth of content that could be experienced offline for no additional charge. So many players (myself included) were in no hurry to sign up for an account and start racking up fees. Ubi did not consider that players might spend several weeks playing the offline game before they might sign up for an account.

Each of the above problems were Ubi's fault, because they were the publisher and thus ultimately responsible to make sure things were done right. The default install behavior should have been to create an account. The Live flyer should have indicated that at publishing time, the Live service was in beta, should have said that beta participation would not subtract from the user's complimentary free period, and should have provided a URL to get more current information. Doing these things right would have accelerated the signups that were so important to Ubi. And when these things weren't done right, Ubi should have pushed back their deadline for signups.

In summary, Ubi shot Uru in the foot, and then blamed it for limping. (And I didn't even get into the quality issues that resulted from marching the product to market a little before it was ready.)

_________________
MOULa KI: 26838 | Prologue Videos | Visit rel.to to explore Myst, Uru, and D'ni communities!
Click here for social/game profiles


Last edited by Marten on Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:32 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 1:58 am
Posts: 528
Location: France
There are some people, here and there, but those are mostly exceptions if you look at the big picture most these hoods don't have much traffic. And again they are not suited for their purpose: to welcome newcomers. In march when MOULa started many people were assigned to one of those hoods and were lost, because no one was there, and those that were there were new too and didn't know a thing.
The problem we are facing is how to improve the start of Uru. If we go with a multiplayer Cleft of sort then the role of the Hoods become less important. But with the current design the hoods play a big part in the early experience; and that design isn't perfectly suited.

[edit: oops; too many people posting at the same time]
Quote:
(1) The default install behavior of the game is to not create the online account, then passive-aggressively complain to the user about not creating an account even though the default was to not create one.
(2) A flyer distributed with the game indicated that the online game would charge a fee. The game shipped with 5 Ages worth of content that could be experienced offline for no additional charge. So many players (myself included) were in no hurry to sign up for an account and start racking up fees. Ubi did not consider that players might spend weeks playing the offline game before they might sign up for an account.

Those are two points I strongly agree with (especially the 2nd one) and they were discussed at Ubi at the time but that was not Ubisoft philosophy, and so they ditched Uru according to their own reasons.. And their was nothing that could be done about that unfortunately. I certainly do not approve Ubi's decision, I just try to explain their point of view.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:55 pm
Posts: 625
Count me among those that was in no hurry to create an account because I didn't have money to pay MMO fees and had plenty to do offline.

_________________
MOULagain KI #: 66990

When I was your age, we rocket-jumped up hill both ways in boiling lava.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:37 am
Posts: 278
I don't think anyone honestly thinks Ubi are villains these days, but on the other hand it's nice to know that mistakes were made and that the cancellation wasn't entirely Uru's fault for being crap. ;)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:05 pm 
Offline
Former MystOnline Moderator

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:05 pm
Posts: 4194
Location: 56°2'26", -3°20'28"
aloys wrote:
One way to solve that would be to assign newcomers to GoG hoods. And make it so that much more new people can be assigned to these hoods than the current DRC hoods number.
Isn't that something similar to what happened with "Visitors" during MOUL? I seem to recall that Visitors got assigned to either the GoG or the Beginners hood.

I'm guessing that the "20 to a hood" figure was a kind of semi-arbitrary number to mitigate lag if you got a rush of people all signing up at the outset and charging into the hood together. But I watched this a bit during the first weeks of MOULa and the way things are, it often takes new players quite a while to find their way to the hood (maybe they go to the cleft first, spend time trying to make more things happen in Relto, fall off Relto a few times, etc.) so when they finally get there it's empty. So whatever else is done, raising the default hood count seems to make sense and 50 or even 100 doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

_________________
Image Mac - MOULagain KI#00004826 00004289
In the interests of the environment, this post has been constructed entirely from recycled electrons.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:26 pm
Posts: 1023
Location: Maryland, USA
I believe Visitors were sent to GoG during a convention (ComiCon?) in 2007. Cyan had a booth where people could log in and try out MOUL. It was a total madhouse that week.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 10:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 4:22 pm
Posts: 520
Location: relto
There was another problem that neither cyan or ubi most likely didn't really think about at the time. I really didn't notice if anyone posted it, but not very many people had broadband internet and I believe it was a requirement to play URU. I remember people asking that question in the forums on several occasions.

On changes to uru, well I'm kinda torn on the cleft being single or multi-player. At times I really didn't understand (in a IC way) why I never saw anyone. Well other than zandi

The Ki really only needs to be upgraded to a full flegded chat system. Like the ones that are in all the other MMO's.

I do remember having around 100 or so people in the city at one time, but things were majorly laggy. Also it would be nice to remove some(not all) of the construction equipment out of the city. Kinda clean up the clutter.

I have a few ideas for the client side. One idea is to have a list of fan ages that are available to downloaded. I think fan ages should be setup like xboxlive does things with game add ons or DLC's basically you have uru and fan ages that are available to download. If and when cyan decides to add content(like an age) they could also add their age or ages to the same list.

Biggest thing is for the server to be able to handle more people. I know that when I played Everquest each server had over 2000 players. things did get laggy when you had allot of people in one place, but most times that wasn't the server; it was more the players computer and/or connection.

_________________
We keep moving forward,
openning up new doors and doing new things,
Because we're curious... and curiosity keeps
leading us down new paths

Walt Disney

Keep moving forward


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:37 am
Posts: 278
Yes!! The whole broadband thing was only just starting to happen in the UK and I was one of the many who couldn't get it. I'd actually forgotten that (how quickly we get used to internet on tap), but it was the whole reason I couldn't get in for Prologue.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:25 pm
Posts: 158
Location: Aberystwyth, Wales
We have nearly 30,000 accounts, right?
If each of those gave Cyan $10, Cyan would have $300,000. Then we'd probably get everything we need next week...

*Goes and thinks about creating some kind of donatathon event*


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:23 am 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 12:22 am
Posts: 1092
Location: On the bluff
We have 30,000 accounts because the monthly fee is . . . zero.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 4:22 pm
Posts: 520
Location: relto
Nye_Sigismund wrote:
We have nearly 30,000 accounts, right?
If each of those gave Cyan $10, Cyan would have $300,000. Then we'd probably get everything we need next week...

*Goes and thinks about creating some kind of donatathon event*


Actually I don't think that would do. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think cyan is like 10 people or less atm, that amount of money might pay for 3 or 4 salaries, but not much more.

bandwidth for the game and there own server maintenance most likely would cost allot more then that.

_________________
We keep moving forward,
openning up new doors and doing new things,
Because we're curious... and curiosity keeps
leading us down new paths

Walt Disney

Keep moving forward


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 469 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 32  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: