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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:54 am 
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Zrax announced his DIRTSAND project today. DIRTSAND stands for D'ni In Real Time Server And Network Daemon, and is an open-source MOUL server for Linux.

It's far from complete, but already supports logging in, visiting Ages, and multiple players (although Zrax says there are bugs with chat). It's already being designed with the future in mind, and includes IPv6 support and security checking on messages.

For Zrax's "Volcano" testing server and more information, see http://moul.zrax.net/info.php


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:58 pm 
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Given the recent progression of external clients by the community, do we even need to worry about cyan doing anything at this point?

Seems like open source is comming, but not from cyan?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:07 am 
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All we have ever needed is a license.

Getting the source code would be nice. Obviously it is possible to work around the lack of source code.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:10 pm 
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Nalates wrote:
All we have ever needed is a license.

Like they say, "locks just keep honest people honest" and not having the license is just keeping some very talented people from doing what others are already doing without it. :?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:13 pm 
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Indeed. Cyan is being increasingly rendered obsolete. This is why I argued Cyan needed to form a more cooperative partnership with the coders. If Cyan doesn't do the hard work of leading, others will. It's that simple.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:18 pm 
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We have been repeatedly told Cyan does not have the time or money to do much. I think one can infer they also do not have the will. Desire and will being significantly different in respect to motivation and action. Their focus is else where. I think the remaining core fans have more will and motivation. Obviously fans are doing more.

It seems to me Rand wants to keep some part of Uru as his/Cyan's and keep everyone else away. I have no problem with that. Cyan owns the main storyline. But, if Cyan will license the content and provide limits, the community can move ahead faster. The main story or trunk may be stalled until Cyan decides to do something, fans can develop the branches.

I suspect when we get a license then we will see leaders emerge. Whether or not we end up with leaders for canon compliant development and others for ...independent... free form... whatever development is likely up to the community.

While it would be nice to have Cyan lead... I don't see it happening. Nor do I see it as likely anytime soon.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:05 pm 
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Nalates wrote:
We have been repeatedly told Cyan does not have the time or money to do much. I think one can infer they also do not have the will. Desire and will being significantly different in respect to motivation and action. Their focus is else where. I think the remaining core fans have more will and motivation. Obviously fans are doing more.

It seems to me Rand wants to keep some part of Uru as his/Cyan's and keep everyone else away. I have no problem with that. Cyan owns the main storyline. But, if Cyan will license the content and provide limits, the community can move ahead faster. The main story or trunk may be stalled until Cyan decides to do something, fans can develop the branches.

I suspect when we get a license then we will see leaders emerge. Whether or not we end up with leaders for canon compliant development and others for ...independent... free form... whatever development is likely up to the community.

While it would be nice to have Cyan lead... I don't see it happening. Nor do I see it as likely anytime soon.


Odd, I remember saying things like this a while back and got shot down, Its nice to see the attitude change though!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:44 pm 
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Nalates wrote:
We have been repeatedly told Cyan does not have the time or money to do much. I think one can infer they also do not have the will. Desire and will being significantly different in respect to motivation and action. Their focus is else where. I think the remaining core fans have more will and motivation. Obviously fans are doing more.

I would doubt their desire as well. particularly from Stoneship, it seems obvious that Cyan has changed from a Myst/Uru-dominated company. This is another reason for Cyan to prioritize releasing the source as it frees them to pursue more diverse games.

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While it would be nice to have Cyan lead... I don't see it happening. Nor do I see it as likely anytime soon.

Agreed, and that is bad news for Cyan because, without that lead, they will lose control of Uru permanently because they will lose control of the community culture (with fans taking over, people will identify Uru with fans rather than Cyan). From Cyan's handling of this and other situations, they certainly deserve to lose control of this. As Robyn Miller said (paraphrasing), Uru is moving to its new owners, the fans themselves.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:03 pm 
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Whilyam wrote:
...it seems obvious that Cyan has changed from a Myst/Uru-dominated company. This is another reason for Cyan to prioritize releasing the source as it frees them to pursue more diverse games.

You mean it wasn't obvious when Myst V: End of Ages was declared to be the last game in the Myst franchise? Diversity is good for a company - when it stays with its core competency. At the heart of it, that would be intelligent game design and superb graphics. NOT prioritizing the release of open source MOUL frees their time even more. I'd like to see open source as much as anyone, but spending time on it does not magically produce more cycles for those other things.

That said, I don't think Plasma/Uru will be relevant in the hands of the fans without Cyan leadership. A central role is required for the world at large, whether for hobby or commerce, to trust a platform enough to invest in it. That is, investments significant enough to make it a growth area. Fans should be free to bring up test servers to distribute the load and to preclude the necessity for us to worry about funding Cyan if they are not ready to build a service infrastructure from Plasma/Uru licensing. Personally, I would not invest my own time on actual development or on putting up MOUL test and game servers without public Cyan licensing for these simple reasons of relevance. Many people at or beyond college age with greater responsibilities can't afford to do otherwise with their time.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:27 am 
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Since I don't ever see myself doing ages, what I really NEED is someone to pay. Some needs to start accepting incentives to make this happen.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:57 am 
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Nalates wrote:
All we have ever needed is a license.


We've got a licence: libHSPlasma, PlasmaClient, and DirtSand are all GPLv3 licensed ;)

None of them require any Cyan content, and some people have already expressed interest in using DirtSand and PlasmaClient to build their own, non-Myst-related, online game.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:54 am 
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Right, there's absolutely no reason folks can't contribute right now to DirtSand and PlasmaClient (and along with them libHSPlasma). And we'd all be very grateful if you did, there's a lot of code to write.

With these projects, we can start developing plasma-based-content outside of the Myst universe, and perhaps (if people are feeling particularly bold) "fanfiction" servers that take the current canon and expand on it. A lot of discussion has taken place in IRC on what's needed in order to get fanservers running - which Cyan global content is necesary, what needs to be replaced, etc. More public discussion of this would only be a good thing, I think - a rough (and kind of out-of-date) list of things we've discussed is available on the Guild of Writers wiki

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:04 am 
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@Paradox, that is somewhat out of context. I thought it obvious we were discussing building servers for Uru related purposes with a need for the core Uru content, which needs a license. We have had numerous discussions about not needing any license if we excluded Cyan’s content. In which case, people may be building Myst-Uru style but not Uru.

@JWP, what Cyan needs to do and what they want to do are two different things. I think Cyan/Rand does want to keep a hold on Uru and dreams of some day adding to the story. I’m not at all sure that will ever happen. However, it is Rand’s story and he is entitled to reserve it.

To some extent Whilyam is right. Putting off licensing the content leaves it to fans to figure out where the limits are and how far they can push the envelope. I suspect that could lead to problems. It certainly puts off many, i.e., JWP, and delays some of the game development progress.

@PaladinOfKaos, I am enthusiastic about your progress and hope it leads to the much more open Plasma tool set many have hoped for and I think it offers the possibility of improving Myst-Uru game play (if we can get a license). But, when I compare it to what is going on in the Virtual World realm, Plasma seems to be lagging far behind. Millions of dollars are being poured into Blue Mars, SL, and OpenSim. Dozens of teams are developing advanced client side tools and bringing VW’s to the common browser. So, while I wish you the best it is difficult for me to see how Plasma will become a popular design tool and gain mass support in the general VW realm.

Without a license for Cyan content, I can’t see a large number of Myst fans getting overly excited about a new Myst-Uru client. Also, Myst-Uru fans gather here because they like Myst-Uru. Once you go outside that realm, many of us lose interest. I can see game builders moving on to games outside the Myst-Uru story. But, that won’t do much for the non-Plasma oriented Myst-Uru fan.

I see your PlasmaClient has the next evolutionary step in open source Uru. But, without a license from Cyan for Uru content… it is hard for Myst-Uru fans to benefit from the step.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:58 pm 
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If these fan-run servers only contain fan-produced content, then I don't see the need for a license. Plus, Cyan has already provided limits - see RAWA's guidelines for writing ages.

BTW - that's fantastic news about DIRTSAND! Once it matures, we'll finally have a means to test our MOULa-compatible ages.

All that's left is some means to migrate our tested ages onto Cyan's servers*. Perhaps the surplus funds for MOULa could be used to create some sort of age-submission process? It could involve the addition of a portal on this website; you could upload your content to a temporary location and provide some sort of proof that the age works and is multiplayer-safe (e.g. links to inspection threads on GoMa's forums, pics from DIRTSAND sessions, etc.). Someone on Cyan's team can check the age on our test servers, then transfer the age files to the MOULa data servers and add a link somewhere (Nexus?) for us to access it.

*We could also use a way to bring over our URU:CC ages to MOULa format, but that's something on our end to produce.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:12 pm 
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Robert The Rebuilder wrote:
If these fan-run servers only contain fan-produced content, then I don't see the need for a license.

Use of the proprietary Plasma platform and file formats requires permission to legalize what has been reverse engineered, even if everything consists of pure, fan-produced software and content. That software and content is based upon a proprietary foundation for which significant investment was made to acquire, develop, and produce it. Chances are that Cyan will release it for free. But I think they should have nominal charges at the very least to address the topic of this very thread. Licensing can provide for that.

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