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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 4:00 am 
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Why does SL seem to be the thread that keeps this community together?..I see no link to get there....

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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 5:58 pm 
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It certainly wouldn't hurt to have a list of direct links to the "currently active" SL URU/Myst locations, would it? It's a little disconcerting to stop by occasionally, only to find oneself falling toward a completely unfamiliar landscape because that particular location has been removed... :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 7:57 pm 
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@ Stucuk, The thing about your automatically generated (as it take it) journal is the amount of information one would be interested in and the amount of boring stuff in the journal. It sounds more like a game/player log. I don’t see how to make a log interesting. Otherwise some would need to be writing it and that sounds laborious. It also sounds like a lot of reading.

Jalak thing… I think Jalak is only for those that can self entertain, which is the point I think dragossh implies. An important difference in what dragossh and you are saying is in the presupposition that your talking about the same people or that only one type of player can be targeted. Gwyneth Llewelyn has a loonnng post on Self-Entertainment and how the concept affects user retention in SL.

I do think Jalak could be improved by creating a spectators area. May be someone will model bleachers. Then it might be worthwhile to devise a competitive team game for Jalak.

Web sites dying… yeah they do. But, so do Uru servers. In fan made shards in many games it is common to have a web site and blog that supports the game/shard. These could all be on the same server or within the same hosting account. The whole thing would last through the same time frame.

@ alloys, (post reference) I think we mostly agree. I believe new content brings players in, it does not do much for player retention, nor it doesn’t provide a long term reason to login every day. Once an age puzzle is solved and the age experienced there is little reason to return. I think we both see age creation as a slow difficult process unlikely to grow Uru.

I believe something in the game play core has to change. Game research shows that player retention in MMOG’s is most directly related to player interactions. Our interactionsin Uru are pretty limited.

Marketing… if there is fun stuff to do, people talk about it and marketing goes viral.

@ Charura, I suppose the SL link is the number of Uruites that have immigrated to SL. It is hard to know the number of Uruites currently active in both. I think it is a significant number. SL and Uru started about the same time. There are a number of similarities and some big differences.

Also, a number of academic studies have used the SL population as a guinea pig to study human interaction in a virtual world to enable better game design. Good stats are available to academics. Plus a number of Uruites have and are experimenting with game play ideas in OpenSim, an SL open source spin off.

@ Robin, …do you mean in-Cavern links to ages?
[/@]

Getting back and current story to new players and returning players so they can catch up seems to devolve to either read or watch a video. Many seem to think that will help with player retention. I’m uncertain. I suppose if short videos were being keyed to various viewers with information or story related to that area were available in world and they changed often, that could help. We know journals with short entries helped with player retention. I have no ideas how many hundreds of times I trekked to Shaper’s office to check his journal. It was getting to be a grind.

May be having a Retlo book we could create links in would reduce the grind.

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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 7:58 pm 
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Robin wrote:
It certainly wouldn't hurt to have a list of direct links to the "currently active" SL URU/Myst locations, would it? It's a little disconcerting to stop by occasionally, only to find oneself falling toward a completely unfamiliar landscape because that particular location has been removed...

Yes, that's annoying which is why I created an "Uru Nexus HUD" (Heads Up Display) which contains probably the most current list of Myst/Uru builds and provides quick transportation to them. The last update was in January and I plan to upgrade it again very shortly. IM me in SL or PM here with your SL name and I'll be glad to send it to you. Or, you can wait until I send the next upgrade out to the D'ni Refugees group.

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 1:52 am 
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Nalates wrote:
@ Stucuk, The thing about your automatically generated (as it take it) journal is the amount of information one would be interested in and the amount of boring stuff in the journal. It sounds more like a game/player log. I don’t see how to make a log interesting. Otherwise some would need to be writing it and that sounds laborious. It also sounds like a lot of reading.

You could say the same thing about every journal you find in different ages, some will read all the journal entries and enjoy the extra insight into the back story of what has happened, others will just ignore them as they aren't interested in reading them.

Nalates wrote:
Jalak thing… I think Jalak is only for those that can self entertain, which is the point I think dragossh implies. An important difference in what dragossh and you are saying is in the presupposition that your talking about the same people or that only one type of player can be targeted.

As an only child i have in the past had to entertain myself. So i think that i can entertain myself fine. The problem with the age imo is that you don't accomplish anything and that its a very limited area. Take Minecraft for example, its a sandbox game and does require some level of self entertainment as there are no pre-defined goals. But you get that sense of accomplishment once you have built your castle/whatever. As far as i understand most people require some feeling of accomplishment, otherwise it feels like a waste of time.


Nalates wrote:
I do think Jalak could be improved by creating a spectators area. May be someone will model bleachers. Then it might be worthwhile to devise a competitive team game for Jalak.

Wouldn't it need to have the "play area"'s size increased for use as a team game?(For anything more than 1 vs 1 anyway)

Nalates wrote:
Web sites dying… yeah they do. But, so do Uru servers.

The difference is that if a server dies then the blog becomes irrelevant, if a blog dies the server looses contents. Having everything on the server means that if the server is up that you are guaranteed to have access to all the content, where as having them in different locations means that if a website is under maintenance or heavy load that you will have gaps.

Nalates wrote:
I believe something in the game play core has to change. Game research shows that player retention in MMOG’s is most directly related to player interactions. Our interactionsin Uru are pretty limited.

Well URU imo should have the ability for players to pick up objects and move them around. Rather than kicking them. Basically done like This(I know that hardcore people would complain about the fact that you can never make it look perfect in 3rd person but thats not a reason to not implement a gameplay feature which would improve the game. Its also a mute point as kicking objects looks stupid).

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 10:24 am 
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Ok, in this post, I will only give my own opinions, not speculate on what most people would want, or what would work for the largest group. Since I did not do large scale surveys, whatever I say about that has equal chances of being true or untrue.

Firstly, can I be the one to say not everyone who jumped in after the content/storyline/events leaves again quickly? I'm here since December, so I haven't experienced any of that, and yet I am not leaving. There are others like me. Not all newbies are so impatient or stupid as you make them out to be, some of us are actually fans that will stick with it :).

About the auto-updating journal, I'd hate it. It would break the experience for me. I keep my own logs of what I do using old fashioned, real life paper and pencil, and I'd really like to keep it that way. Some games profit from such a system, but in my view those are single player, quest driven games. The whole thing about Myst is that it's free exploration. I don't want any record other than my own about what I experienced. I don't want someone else interpreting for me what I did, thought or felt at the time. If this is going to be implemented at some point, I'd be really grateful if one could turn it off. Also, not knowing what you did or what you have left to do is not a problem for me. I keep a record of what I did, which is part of the fun for me (I have for example, a hand drawn, huge map (about 6 A4) of the maze in the Selenitic age in Myst. I spent hours not just finding the way out, but mapping the entire thing and drawing all the points and possible directions. Loved it!). Not knowing what you have left to do is essential for my enjoyment of the game. I love being lost. Forgetting how you solved an age before will give you the opportunity to refind the details of a puzzle. Having a log with all the solution will spoiler me if I have to search back to something else, while resolving a puzzle. For example: I have my Riven notes, in such a way that the things I noted down from the world, like scetches, maps, numbral etc, are on diffrent pages than what I did with them, or how I solved it in the end. That way I don't have to rescetch everything again, now I'm replaying Riven, but since I played it when I was very young, I don't know all the solutions anymore, and I can solve the puzzles with a minimal amount of for knowledge.

A last thing: in this topic the idea of minigames and integration with websites was mentioned. What seems fun and fitting is to integrate something like amnesya.com as a braintrainer. Make an egg-room like structure with a terminal, and give people the possibility to work through riddlegames there to keep them sharp for the puzzle solving in the ages. There are loads of puzzle packs available that would work, amnesya is just a nice one because it's already online & it gets quite challenging after a bit.

Anyway, interesting thread, will keep up with it :).

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 2:39 pm 
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@Narameh
I wish there a few million of us out there!!

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 4:59 pm 
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I'm a member of Jaruku's Bevin and have been from the start. I always offered help to any newbie to the game. Always giving as little information as possible in the form of hints.

Unfortunately I am not able to get the other members of the Bevin to do the same. It seems to be a competition between the members to see who can tell the newbie the most about the game. I've tried talking to the members about this many many times with no luck. I have given up and no longer try.

I'm not sure what we as players can do to stop this from happening. Should there be a warning at the start of the game telling the newbies to request hints not answers, and to stop the person if they are giving away to much information?

I would love to see this problem addressed by open source if not by Cyan.

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 7:06 pm 
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Stucuk wrote:
Nalates wrote:
@ Stucuk, The thing about your automatically generated (as it take it) journal is the amount of information one would be interested in and the amount of boring stuff in the journal. It sounds more like a game/player log. I don’t see how to make a log interesting. Otherwise some would need to be writing it and that sounds laborious. It also sounds like a lot of reading.

You could say the same thing about every journal you find in different ages, some will read all the journal entries and enjoy the extra insight into the back story of what has happened, others will just ignore them as they aren't interested in reading them.


One could say that. The point I wanted to make is machine made journals are likely to be exceptionally boring and filled with trivia. More so than human made journals. Players are looking for entertaining and helpful. The idea is how to make things people will enjoy and use. I don’t see a machine generated journal logging events as being a solution.

Stucuk wrote:
Nalates wrote:
Web sites dying… yeah they do. But, so do Uru servers.

The difference is that if a server dies then the blog becomes irrelevant, if a blog dies the server looses contents. Having everything on the server means that if the server is up that you are guaranteed to have access to all the content, where as having them in different locations means that if a website is under maintenance or heavy load that you will have gaps.

I tried to convey the idea that the blog be part of the game server hosting account. That doesn’t mean that it is all one machine. When the blog is run by the same people that run the shard, their lifetimes will likely be in sync. Since I’m suggesting people would be writing the journal entries gaps are not going to happen. In the case of machine generation, that could happen. Another reason to avoid automated journals.

Picking up things… I consider that a core game play change. Many people think this feature would help game play. It is a challenging feature for game designers. It’s in SL but it is a bit lame. What games have you seen this feature in that works well?

@Narameh, you make good points. People are different and like different things. My idea in the OP is to find the parts of general game play that most people enjoy and that contribute to a motivation to login each day. A recent poll shows 90+% of Facebook users are NOT happy with Facebook. But, they login each day and there is a massive user base playing Facebook games. Why?

Once we start to understand we can then figure out which features might help Uru. Some changes would have too great an impact and change Uru too much. But, are there other ways to implement them that wouldn’t?

Your style of play is what I think of as D&D going digital, the game went digital and people still used paper and pencil to play and solve the game. The GoC took that to another level by creating and sharing maps with the intent to avoid making spoilers. Of course any map is somewhat a spoiler. But, in general people were only told about fan made maps by other players when asked, they were never placed or expected to be placed in game.

In the Devokan stories I am finding maps are needed to tell people about the parts of the Devokan world they would not know about otherwise. Those maps do little if anything to help one solve those ages. They are more a promotional tool.

You enjoy making the paper notes. You can probably understand others don’t. The question then comes up whether you would enjoy sharing what you leaned with the paper averse? Would that extend your fun? If not, there is no obligation to share. Uru is to be enjoyed however you enjoy it.

I collected maps and put them on the GoC Tech Data site, see Uru Maps.

Charura wrote:
@Narameh
I wish there a few million of us out there!!

There may be. I know many think Uru players are some small subset of the game universe. I don’t. I think Uru has some serious deficiencies for an MMOG that are holding it back.

@ rocketdog, people that want to show off their knowledge are a problem. Some simply don’t understand the idea of being a spoiler or game etiquette. They are self centered and think little of others. Solutions for those problems have been discussed numerous times, so let’s not rehash it here. Do a forum search to find the threads. Collect some links to give to people in-Cavern. The GoG site has info too.
[/@]

In SL my motivation to login is;
Checking on new stuff (like content in Uru), talk about events (often Uru events and plans are discussed and made in SL), look for sexy shoes and cute dresses… may be a new do, help customers, test new features, visit places I’ve heard of, and flirt.

At Facebook my motivation is;
Advance my games, check up on friends, and promote my blog. The same with Twitter.

What things do you log into each day, if any, and why?

What would motivate you to log into the Cavern each day?

Is there anything that keeps you out?

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 8:59 pm 
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Nalates wrote:
@Narameh, you make good points. People are different and like different things. My idea in the OP is to find the parts of general game play that most people enjoy and that contribute to a motivation to login each day. A recent poll shows 90+% of Facebook users are NOT happy with Facebook. But, they login each day and there is a massive user base playing Facebook games. Why?


I know what you are trying to do, that's whyI specifically put in there that I wasn't. To make sure nobody thought I was putting my ideas on them. I have nothing against trying to find the best way for everyone, I just don't think it should be me that does it.


Nalates wrote:
Your style of play is what I think of as D&D going digital, the game went digital and people still used paper and pencil to play and solve the game. The GoC took that to another level by creating and sharing maps with the intent to avoid making spoilers. Of course any map is somewhat a spoiler. But, in general people were only told about fan made maps by other players when asked, they were never placed or expected to be placed in game.

[...]

You enjoy making the paper notes. You can probably understand others don’t. The question then comes up whether you would enjoy sharing what you leaned with the paper averse? Would that extend your fun? If not, there is no obligation to share. Uru is to be enjoyed however you enjoy it.



Of course I understand not everyone likes note taking. Again, that's why I put the "this is my opinion only" thing on top of my post. Not everybody has to enjoy it, as long as I keep the option to do it my way, I'm fine with whatever way others choose to play.

My "first page notes" as I would call them, would indeed not spoil anyone, as they are just representations of what's already there, like maps, sketches of artwork, numbrals and machines. I would share them, except that I scetched them in a very low hardness pencil, the lines are very, very light, and it's therefore impossible to scan them in such a way that they are actually legible. I've tried on a number of diffrent scanners and with verious settings, but nothing really makes a diffrence that's big enough to make them usable to others. They're perfectly okay as they are, but just don't digitalize very well. I don't want to ruin them by darkening the lines. And so that option seems to be closed to me. I also can't draw with pens very well, as you can't erase mistakes etc ( I really enjoy drawing, but I'm not that good, I need my eraser ;)). However, most of the things I redraw you could also capture with a screenshot, if you'd wish. I just like taking the old fashioned route and sketch everything. Both because it just fits into my traditional Myst experience, and simply because I enjoy sketching, but hardly ever have reason or time to do so.

Lastly, I don't know if I'd want an URU you's have to log into every day to make sure you don't miss anything. With my internship, which is more than a fulltime job in time, sports 6 days a week and a social life I just don't have the time left over to get there every day. I'm actually greatfull the tempo is slightly slow now. When I log in 3 times a week I can just enjoy and hang out, without being flung out of the story because so much happened, or I missed a lot of events etc. It's nice to have a place to unwind from the running I seem to keep doing to get all my other activities to fit into my day :).

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 9:20 pm 
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Nalates wrote:
What would motivate you to log into the Cavern each day?

That is the 10 million dollars question we have yet to answer properly..
The answers we have seen so far all seem to lead down two paths:
1) Making such deeps changes that Uru would no longer be Uru.
2) More content, more gameplay. That's the original plan, and history hasn't been kind with that one.
Neither option seems totally satisfying..
What would make me log into the Cavern each day? Truth be told: probably nothing; because that's not how I enjoy that kind of game. But maybe twice a week..
I'd need much more content, better social tools, much better visuals (this is 2011 now; look at what exists; the designs are great, but the rendering has aged). More custom content, and better tools to more easily create it. (We now have the 3ds Max plugin, and it is really great, but nobody has the 6000$ to buy a Max license). Also more places to explore in the Cavern. The Cavern, that is what originally sold me on Uru/Mudpie, we have yet to see more than 10% of it. :cry:
And more important: ditch the subscription-based pricing scheme: by all means. This alone prevented so many people from joining back then..


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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 10:27 pm 
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@Narameh, that you like playing a certain way is fine. My belief is that a good game allows a variety of play styles.

Quote:
Lastly, I don't know if I'd want an URU you's have to log into every day to make sure you don't miss anything.

That is understandable. Uru is a game that if people were not logging in often, they missed things. That isn’t true now. But, when Cyan was actively running the game, that was the case and I missed loads.

The difference in what I’m asking is what would get you to login? The question is not about making people login. In the Facebook games I like, I can skip logging in for a week or two and it is not a big problem. But, what is it that makes one want to check back? And the key word is want.

As to your sketches being too light… that can generally be fixed. I know your scans are not coming out as you like or think usable. But, that is a common problem with scans. GIMP and Photoshop users are used to correcting those problems. Technical issues can usually be overcome. It is really a matter of whether you want to do it. If not, that is ok. If you do, avoid getting hung up in technical obstacles. Ask for help and a number of people here work with GIMP and PS.
[/@]

@aloys, your right. Option 1 is not what I want to see happen.

In option 2 more content is pretty much a given. But, some of us seriously doubt more content is the long term solution. The just more content route doesn’t seem to have worked well so far.

More game play is a promising possibility. The trick is getting more game play and not evolving into option 1. I think it is possible. But, what is more game play?

More ‘social tools’ is a possibility I think has the biggest promise for quickly improving player retention. There are plans for better chat, KI, groups… but what social tools provide someone something worth checking each day? …and that would be appropriate in Uru?

Better visuals would be nice. But, game studies show that is a minor contributor to player retention. The Facebook games also tend to indicate visual is not all that important. Better visuals might mean an upgrade to the CWE render engine, which would probably take some time. We can’t do much with the existing games textures as those ages are reserved to Cyan. So, I think of visuals as distance future thing and low priority.

Custom content… hair, shoes? :) I like the idea.

Better tools… Getting an easy way to add the content may be more of a challenge. Testing servers are popping up. So, tools are arriving. I don’t see much work on a plug-in for Blender. There will probably never be an in-cavern real time building environment. But, building tools as we know them in Uru, no matter how good, are not going to be a reason to login. They are more likely to have people working in Blender/3DS than logging in. While they may get us better content and more of it, they won’t really change the player retention dynamic.
[/@]

Here is an article that came out today on the pro’s and con’s of making games sticky. Enhancing Gameplay: Adding Stickiness - We don’t have those issues with Uru. Some stickiness would help. But, what is it about the referenced game that makes it sticky? They didn’t answer that question.

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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 10:50 pm 
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Nalates wrote:
Since I’m suggesting people would be writing the journal entries gaps are not going to happen.

When i said gaps i have always meant that if the blog dies or goes down(Maintenence, heavy load, etc) which is not directly hosted on the same server as the uru server then it will not be accessible so there is then a gap in contents on the server. I don't mean that bits of information would be missing between blog posts i meant the whole blog would be the missing contents.

Nalates wrote:
Picking up things… I consider that a core game play change. Many people think this feature would help game play. It is a challenging feature for game designers. It’s in SL but it is a bit lame. What games have you seen this feature in that works well?

Err, Penumbra? You did watch the youtube video i linked to right? If you watch the video you see that to open doors/draws/etc you are actually fully controlling there movement. If you open a draw fast the objects inside are thrown about. To open valves you turn the handles yourself, no scripted animations, etc. Basicaly its making the game more realistic by allowing you to properly control physical objects in the game rather than kicking them randomly. Its not a hard thing to make. Its effectively just a simple physics "picking" thing(Not to be confused with "Picking objects up").

Basically you just convert the screen coordinates of where your mouse is into 3D coordinates, you then fire a ray to see if there are any objects where your mouse is that can be picked. If there is you mark its position down and apply a force when you move the mouse based on its position and where the mouse now is.

I have no clue how hard it is with PhysX, but with Newton its not hard to implement picking.

Nalates wrote:
But, they login each day and there is a massive user base playing Facebook games. Why?

People are social animals. Thats the main reason people use things like facebook. So increasing social interaction should help(More Team based stuff is the first thing that comes to mind for me).


Nalates wrote:
You enjoy making the paper notes. You can probably understand others don’t. The question then comes up whether you would enjoy sharing what you leaned with the paper averse? Would that extend your fun? If not, there is no obligation to share. Uru is to be enjoyed however you enjoy it.

Could make a basic MS Paint like drawing thing to allow people to draw maps/etc ingame(Remove the need for paper). Could have a feature to allow users to send these drawings to other people.

Nalates wrote:
There may be. I know many think Uru players are some small subset of the game universe. I don’t. I think Uru has some serious deficiencies for an MMOG that are holding it back.

The amount of active players is proberly small in comparison to the number of Myst fans. Alot who have played offline URU proberly don't see any point to the Live URU due to the similarity in contents(most of the Online contents were released as expansions to the offline version).

Nalates wrote:
What would motivate you to log into the Cavern each day?

Team based ages which you could do over and over.

Nalates wrote:
Is there anything that keeps you out?

Lack of repeatable content.

aloys wrote:
much better visuals

Better visuals are a waste of time imo. The better the graphics the less contents people can make. In my opinion its far better to have content that has the same level as URU's graphics(Which should be acceptable even in 2011) and make alot of it than to try and make content that rivals Crysis and only ever make one new age.

There are lots of popular MMO's that have far worse graphics yet loads of people still enjoy them, so as long as the graphics are adequate people shouldn't mind. While Myst games have always wowed people with there graphics we have to be more realistic about it considering that the public is not a studio(We don't have the same resources as a Studio has).

aloys wrote:
And more important: ditch the subscription-based pricing scheme: by all means. This alone prevented so many people from joining back then..

Cyan ditched that when they started the Open Source route. They have to at the very least offer URU as it currently is for free, because if they decided to make it so you needed a subscription to access there server then everyone would just move to a publicly hosted server instead. The only viable way cyan can make money from URU is by selling additional content that they make.

Nalates wrote:
There will probably never be an in-cavern real time building environment.

Proberly, though its now an option as someone could take the source code and modify it into an Age Editor so that you could have real-time editing.

Nalates wrote:
Custom content… hair, shoes? I like the idea.

Thats actually a nice idea for Cyan. Alot of games are going Free To Play, and they use an item mall to fund themselves. While you could never add consumable items, customisation items are something that could be added and featured on an item mall (Would help with the server costs if it was ever implemented).

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 12:10 am 
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I have to admit that I TLDR'ed most of this thread. But I wanted to point out that part of the beauty of open source is this:

If someone feels moved to do so, they can go ahead and implement an automatic journal API-of-sorts and corresponding KI functionality, so that age writers can take advantage of it and add scripted entries to a player's automatic journal. Then the community can judge for itself whether the automatic journal entries that the age writer devises are flawed in some way, e.g., too revealing of things not seen in the age, too leading, too out-of-character for the player's character, boring, etc.

Moreover, this gives Cyan the opportunity to fill in their own ages with journal entries, if they so desire. Or not, if they decide they don't want to do that. Maybe their journal entries would be nothing more than transcriptions of Yeesha's speeches.

Anyway, the important thing is that this would give age writers another tool to express their art and apply their craft. And I don't see how one could consider that to be a bad thing.

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 12:12 am 
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I don't know, Nal; I won't put too much thought into it because I don't really want to see Uru evolve too much.. Getting worried with player retention is a legitimate concern from a business and community perspective, but on a very personnal level as a gamer I'm not too concern with Uru not having too many players.. It is an interesting thought exercise; but at this point in history I'd rather move on. Uru is mostly dead for Cyan, and I don't see the community furthering it well enough to get to the point where we need to answer those fundamental questions. As a player I'm contend with what we have; I find it great that it has gone open-source. But I'm not looking forward to much more. And I certainly don't want to involve myself much more..
Plus I really don't know how to get players to stay more. The core problem to me is that Uru is a role playing game, immersion is key; and 99% of the player-retention schemes that I can think of in other games would break that in Uru. And that is just a show stopper to me. I know I'm kind of a purist; but IMO what makes Uru unique and appealing is also what prevents it from evolving. Talk about a catch 22.. :/
One of the few things that I think is a valid direction is the IC minigames; the heek, Jalak etc. That was a good move from Cyan. The heek is a very simple game; yet it works marvelously, people play it a lot. I spent more time sitting at heek tables that I ever did in Minkata, or waiting for a portal in the Pod Age.. That's replayable gameplay; that's IC, that's fun simple and quick; that's a perfect fit. And it can easily be exported outside of Uru too. (Kind of like Tringo in SL? I don't know much about its actual popularity.)

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Better visuals would be nice. But, game studies show that is a minor contributor to player retention.

That is true; for most games, and most people. But Riven was published 14 years ago; and I am still playing it regularly, in good part because of its visuals. I am obviously not trying to reduce the Myst series to the visuals; but there's not denying it's a big part of the appeal. Would have Myst been so successful if its visuals had been drawn by a 10 year old painting with his fingers? Of course not. It probably affects initial sales more than actual player retention. But if Cyan were to try and launch another large game today Uru level visuals would simply not cut it.
As a developper if I could convince a couple investors to lend me 20 millions; I would most definitely produce a Myst style adventure game with a top of the line engine like Crysis. I have zero doubt that it'd sell. I'd need to develop it for consoles too. Uru as a single player game could have worked great on consoles. As well if not better than on PC.

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The only viable way cyan can make money from URU is by selling additional content that they make.
I think everybody agrees on that.. Even small things would probably sell decently. That's probably not enough to raise a lot of money, but it would most likely be worth it for them. The question is: can they do it? Do they even want to or have they totally moved on?


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