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 Post subject: Enough.
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:05 pm 
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Enough is enough. You people just don't get it.

I have learned from the "Planning Uru" thread that no one cares about anything we do. As such, I am taking down all of my coding stuff. All copies of WhoM will cease to function in the next 2 weeks. Hope you enjoyed it because it's not coming back unless there is a major attitude adjustment here.

Thanks for making our lives miserable for the past several years.

EDIT: After reading this post, you should delete all copies of WhoM from your machine. You no longer have my permission to use my code. You also do not have my permission to reverse engineer my code or otherwise make it work.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:15 pm 
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No one stated anything in the Planning URU thread which comes anywhere close to not caring about what you do. People even posted about how PyPRP would be likely to go far beyond what Cyans plugin can do.

Its obvious that there are people do appreciate work done by people like you on community tools, but you will always have people that make criticisms.

EDIT: Looking at your "MOULa Who's Online" thread people clearly appreciate your work on that tool.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:28 pm 
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Adam, I have great respect for what you and the other writers have accomplished and WILL accomplish. In my network of Uru friends, I hear nothing but good comments and admiration for the job you are doing. As a programmer, I feel your pain and frustration. Please don't pull the code for WhoM. We will lose a useful utility and add to divisions that may already exist. Just keep plugging away. I tip my hat to you all. Thanks.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 10:58 pm 
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I feel your pain Adam, I really do. Nope not going to even try to change your mind. Sort of been here myself.

All I will say is that your efforts and the combined efforts of the GoW have had me in awe for some years. Yes we have had a few harse words with each other of the 4 years I have been here, but only a few. To be honest I cant even remember what the words were over. More to life isn't there? I like straight talking people, you know where they stand. :D

You do what feels right, but for your inner peace I hope it is not a reaction that you may regret later.


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 12:21 am 
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AdamJohnso, welcome to the club ! :cry:


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 1:03 am 
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Adam.

All I can say is that it is a shame that you are quitting your work for reasons that are largely self-inflicted.

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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 6:35 pm 
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AdamJohnso wrote:
Enough is enough. You people just don't get it.

I have learned from the "Planning Uru" thread that no one cares about anything we do. As such, I am taking down all of my coding stuff. All copies of WhoM will cease to function in the next 2 weeks. Hope you enjoyed it because it's not coming back unless there is a major attitude adjustment here.

Thanks for making our lives miserable for the past several years.

Because you have cast all of these aspersions in the most general manner possible, I read these as the following:

I don't get it.
I don't care about anything you do.
I have made your life miserable for the past several years.

Is that really your intent? If not, then please recognize that such posts cause tremendous collateral damage, unintended or not. I want nothing more than to see Uru resurrect itself. No one expects it to be a smooth ride, so let's all type twice and post once.

[Edited to account for merging.]


Last edited by Zardoz on Sun May 22, 2011 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Attitude Adjustment
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 7:15 pm 
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Excellent observation from the bluff as I always expect and respect.

Bear with me as I try.

“Attitude Adjusting”

“Is your cup half full or is it half empty.”

Some of us (myself included) have a tendency take things posted in the most negative and personal way. Speaking for myself here, too much baggage from past un-resolved issues. Once I had been bitten I tended to be over defensive and reactive.

Today I am trying to view posts in a more positive way, looking for the good first. I will try to be part of the solution and not part of the problem.

And on that note I am not taking the comment as all encompassing.

And yes, the opening comment could have been better written but I would like to minimize the implications and move forward with this dialog.


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 7:34 pm 
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Zardoz wrote:
You asked for it - you got it.
AdamJohnso wrote:
Enough is enough. You people just don't get it.

I have learned from the "Planning Uru" thread that no one cares about anything we do. As such, I am taking down all of my coding stuff. All copies of WhoM will cease to function in the next 2 weeks. Hope you enjoyed it because it's not coming back unless there is a major attitude adjustment here.

Thanks for making our lives miserable for the past several years.

Because you have cast all of these aspersions in the most general manner possible, I read these as the following:

I don't get it.
I don't care about anything you do.
I have made your life miserable for the past several years.



Adam,

You've been involved in the community long enough to realize that broad generalizations like that are not true. There are plenty of people that get it, that do care about the things you (and the other devs) do, and I know for a fact that it's not been my mission in life to make yours miserable.

If no one gets it, and no one cares, then there wouldn't be a GoW fork, there wouldn't be a GoW PyPRP for Blender, there would not be a LOT of things.

So saying everyone is like that simply is not true.

However, what is true is this: wearing your heart on your sleeve here is a dangerous thing to do (and on other forums). People say things that they may or may not mean. That they may or may not intend as an insult, or that you (and others) might see it that way, but someone else may not.

The key is to NOT hit that Post Reply button right away, but to instead get up from the computer and go take a breather. Think it over for a while, and then come back to it. If it still feels that way, then it feels that way for you (I won't sit here and tell you how you should feel, you're a grown man, abet a young one, but still grown, and you have a right to feel how you feel).
You then need to think about how you want to respond it. Getting mad and walking away is the easy thing to do.

The hard thing is to instead control your anger and try to instead work it out, or find a reasonable compromise. Sometimes the right answer is to just not answer at all.

I don't use PyPRP anymore. BUT!!!

If it where not for PyPRP, I would not have been able to do the things that I can do now! So I'll be the first to admit that without PyPRP and other things you have helped worked on, I would not be able to make anything that I do make today.

So basically, I DO get it. I DO appriciate the work that not only you, but all the other members of the GoW that have put in lots of time to make things happen (and I do believe I have said this several times over the years).
And NO I have no intentions of making your life miserable. I mean why for gods sakes? I've got much better things to do with my time, and I really don't want to make a mortal enemy out of a young man who can out run me and lives only a couple of hours away from me, now do I?

So my advice (which, as others have said, should be taken as a grain of salt), is to relax, realize that not everyone here is going to support you, and that many will say things that you might find insulting. Just let it bounce off of you and move on. Lord knows I've had to do that over the years here and on other forums.

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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 7:42 pm 
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Meantime, I've been patiently sitting by, waiting for you code jockeys to do your thing so we can explore new ages. I'm beginning to wonder if we will ever see the creativity that's characterized Myst and Uru fans for so long. I'm gonna go into stealth mode again, and spend my time playing Civ V until something shakes from the tree.

/me fades.

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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 7:56 pm 
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you can indulge in constructive discussions about personal differences all you want without bickering about it. but these discussions are always little more than bickering and bellyaching and blame games and they're getting nothing accomplished. people cannot work things out when they're at each others throats, yet each one of these discussions start off with the same approach. i advise you, NO I *BEG* you, please please please please! discuss all you want without harsh words before you cannot stand each other anymore! that would be disastrous! you *have* to work together! no more accusations, no more demands, not even anymore apologies! just let... it... go... or you're just gonna keep making each other miserable and you'll accomplish *nothing*

can you at least do it because i asked nicely? please...


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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 8:27 pm 
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This is almost certain to get locked like the last thread. The mod staff here doesn't need to follow the rules verbatim if a thread is likely to cause a flame war.

That said - I get what you and the rest of the GoW have done, and when I look at it from the objective standpoint that I'm taking from now on I get why PyPRP is important, and I get that the GoW team is a talented group of programmers. I watched as you personally built a near 100% functional port of PlasmaMax for modern Max versions in something like four days.

If you've ever taken offence or got angry at anything I've personally written, please don't think I'm doubting your ability as a programmer - quite the opposite, I respect you as one.

That's my two pence worth, anyway.

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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 9:11 pm 
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The above posts do indeed correctly point out that not everyone is at fault here. In fact, all of you who have posted above have always supported us as coders, and I appreciate that very much. Andy is of course correct that I made too many sweeping generalizations (I was unfortunately very angry at the time of writing that post). I should have added qualifiers that expressed what I really felt--that it's the same group of people who demean what we do. For an example of that, you should read the chatlog of the All Guilds Meeting that occurred right after the announcement of The Fun House ;)

I was actually planning on writing something to that effect anyway, but you guys beat me to it. 8)

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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 9:43 pm 
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Mod note: I've merged the posts from another thread into this, and unlocked it. Please note that in making this merge, a number of posts were removed which referenced a personal conflict that would probably have been better taken to PM. That issue appears to have been resolved elsewhere, so I don't expect to see it resurface here again.

Thanks.

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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 10:00 pm 
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Adam, now I'm confused.

Have you changed your mind about removing your assets and leaving?

Please clairify.

Thank you.

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