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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:24 pm 
Creative Kingdoms

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 6235
Location: Everywhere, all at once
Just a reminder that if you have any questions about, a Q&A chat is scheduled for tomorrow - Saturday, December 20, 2008 - at 1:00 PM Eastern US.

Use to get there. Enter your name to enter the chat.


_________________ An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Make a commitment.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:45 pm 
Obduction Backer

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 4250
Location: Digging around in the dusty archives, uncovering Uru history.
Just a bump 'cause the chat is today in a little over an hour from now.

Explorers Memorial * In Memoriam

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:11 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:25 am
Posts: 2031
Location: Sadly in Germany

18:14 You have joined the channel
18:14 chucker has joined ([email protected])
18:14 Topic: Watch out! Llamas about!
18:14 Tweek set the topic at: 2008/12/20 18:11:47
18:14 chucker has changed mode: +o chucker
18:15 vid has joined ([email protected])
18:15 Tweek has joined ([email protected])
18:15 vid: STOP KILLING [email protected][email protected]!
18:15 Tweek: HAX HAX
18:15 amonre has joined ([email protected])
18:15 chucker: you all suck.
18:15 amonre has changed mode: +o Tweek
18:15 amonre has changed mode: +o amonre
18:15 chucker has changed mode: +o vid
18:15 chucker: <_<
18:15 vid: \o/
18:15 amonre has changed mode: -o JWPlatt
18:15 chucker: ><
18:15 amonre: :D
18:15 chucker: okay enough playing amonre
18:16 chucker has kicked amonre (bye bye)
18:16 amonre has joined ([email protected])
18:16 amonre has changed mode: +o JWPlatt
18:16 amonre has changed mode: -o vid
18:16 amonre restores order
18:16 vid: :(
18:16 amonre has changed mode: +nt
18:16 vid: order sucks
18:16 rarified has joined ([email protected])
18:21 chucker: i should join in as Veralun
18:22 hanse has joined ([email protected])
18:28 Tweek taps foot to Hedningarna - Neidon Laulu
18:36 Hedrum has joined ([email protected])
18:46 amonre has changed mode: +o amonre
18:47 amonre: so is there supposted to be a chat now?
18:47 Tailahr has joined ([email protected])
18:47 amonre: when does it start?
18:47 Tailahr: Shorah y'all!
18:47 amonre: hi
18:47 Hedrum: hi
18:47 Dachannien has joined ([email protected])
18:47 chucker: amonre: 7
18:48 Dachannien: hi all
18:48 chucker: shorah
18:48 amonre: alright
18:48 amonre has set topic: Watch out! Llamas about! | ddfreyne is The One
18:48 amonre: just making sure everybody knows
18:49 Hedrum: whats a Llama?
18:49 Dachannien: does that mean he can dodge bullets?
18:49 amonre: http://salamandercandy.files.wordpress. ... a-obey.jpg
18:49 Hedrum: 0.o
18:49 amonre: ddfreyne = amonre
18:50 Dachannien: ahh, then does that mean you can dodge bullets?
18:50 amonre: yes
18:50 Dachannien: sweet
18:50 amonre: quite
18:51 Hedrum: i woulda thought more ppl would be here by now
18:51 amonre: still 10 minutes to go
18:52 chucker has set topic: Watch out! Llamas about! | ddfreyne is The One | Thingy starts at 10 AM Pacific / 1 PM Eastern
18:52 chucker: (I think)
18:52 chucker: Hedrum: I don't think a lot of people know
18:52 Hedrum: =( sad
18:53 Hedrum: i found out 2 hours ago
18:55 amonre: ew... bzrweb is ugly
18:56 JWPlatt: Ooo, look at the people. Hi folks. Thanks to amonre for allowing use of the mystlore server. Set ops as you wish, just please don't kick me out. I'll be back shortly.
18:57 amonre has changed mode: +b *[email protected]
18:57 chucker: very funny
18:57 amonre: indeed
18:57 chucker: downright hilarious
18:57 chucker: couldn't have thought of that
18:57 amonre: extremely
18:57 Hedrum: how can only 10 ppl know about this??
18:57 Robin has joined ([email protected])
18:58 amonre: 11
18:58 amonre: hi
18:58 Hedrum: hi
18:58 chucker: hi
18:58 Tailahr: Oh, everybody knows. Perhaps they're just not as smart as all of you. ;)
18:58 Robin: Greetings.
18:58 rarified: Hi
18:58 Hedrum: but there are SO many links to this page...
18:59 amonre: what page?
18:59 Hedrum: this chatroom
18:59 Dot has joined ([email protected])
18:59 rarified: There are a lot of suspicious references to "yet another forum" too :(
19:00 Tailahr: It's not that they can't find it. They just don't "get it" yet. Y'all will be the trend setters. ;)
19:00 Jane has joined ([email protected])
19:00 Tailahr: Shorah Dot & Jane!
19:00 Hedrum: good ppl are joining
19:00 Jane: shorah all, hi Tai!
19:00 Dot: Shorah b'shemtee :)
19:00 amonre: hi
19:00 JWPlatt: It seems to be the appointed hour. Who wants to wait for more people?
19:00 Jane: hi Dot, amonre :)
19:00 Hedrum: ill wait for a few more
19:01 amonre: JWPlatt: wait one minure and then start
19:01 amonre: minuTe
19:01 Hedrum: the more the merrier
19:01 Jane: I *just* happened to click on the GoMe announcement 30 seconds ago, lol
19:01 Tailahr: I bumped the thread on MOUL an hour ago.
19:01 amonre has changed mode: -b *[email protected]
19:01 vid: tell us about your forum, JWP!
19:01 vid: Tell me why I have to visit *another* Myst forum!
19:02 Jane: need to grab coffee, brb
19:02 JWPlatt: Are we being precise, amonre, or using an expression?
19:02 amonre: you mean the ban?
19:02 amonre: there's no top-level "uru" domain so it won't affect anyone :)
19:02 Szark has joined ([email protected])
19:03 Hedrum: im lost
19:03 amonre: or the "one" minute? yeah, that's precise
19:03 amonre: :>
19:03 Tailahr: Shorah Szark!
19:03 amonre: well actually that's three minutes already
19:03 amonre: so let's get started
19:03 JWPlatt: vid, although it goes against my planned format, I'll answer your one Q&A question ahead of the rest: Because YOU can have your own Bevin OBJECTION Project!
19:03 Szark: Shorah everyone sorry I'm late
19:04 Jane: hi Szark! :)
19:04 amonre: JWPlatt: you going to start or what? :>
19:05 Tailahr: (He's typing, now.)
19:05 Hedrum: =D
19:05 vid: OBJECTION!: JWP, no one had done such a thing before! While we have countless Myst forums available to us, fragmenting us into smaller and smaller groups and redundant topics!
19:05 vid sits down quietly now.
19:05 JWPlatt: Okay then, objections swept recklessly aside, I'll start with a statement, then I'm going to repeast what OpenURUis, and is not, from the announcement for this chat, then Q&A, okay?
19:06 amonre: sure
19:06 Robin: k
19:06 Dot: OK
19:06 Hedrum: okie dokie
19:06 hanse: ok
19:06 JWPlatt: For those of you who know typonese, your knowledge will be valuable.
19:06 Guest_16464 has joined ([email protected])
19:06 Hedrum: typonese?
19:06 JWPlatt: When Ward Cunningham put up the first wiki in 1995, then called WikiWikiWeb, he did it under the philosophy of "People Projects and Patterns" with the belief that "patterns spread from person to person as they work together on projects."
19:07 Marten has joined ([email protected])
19:07 JWPlatt: would like to attempt a similar philosophy, albeit on this smaller scale and with existing tools.
19:07 JWPlatt: Or as's simple home page says, " provides a venue with resources for a diverse community of projects to encourage a synergistic environment for the exploration, development and exchange of ideas in Cyan Worlds' Myst universe and Open Source Uru."
19:07 amonre: Hedrum: a languge taht is ful of typos
19:07 Dagda has joined ([email protected])
19:07 JWPlatt: And people who don't like the word 'synergistic' migtht replace it with 'cooperative.' Mr. Cunningham probably wrote a better introduction.
19:07 rw has joined ([email protected])
19:07 Dagda: Hi all
19:08 JWPlatt: From the chat announcement:
19:08 JWPlatt: To avoid false expectations and to prepare relevant questions, I would like to briefly state what is, and what it is not:
19:08 JWPlatt: is a fan site which hopes to provide a venue with resources for a diverse community of projects to encourage a cooperative environment for the exploration, development and exchange of ideas in Cyan Worlds' Myst universe and Open Source Uru.
19:08 Marten: brb
19:08 Marten has left IRC (" ajax IRC Client")
19:08 JWPlatt: Like the intentions of Cyan Worlds' decision to open the Uru source code, the direction takes, and what it will offer, depends on the needs of the projects which choose to use it.
19:08 JWPlatt: currently hosts project forums, where each project may have and control its own section, and plans to install a Wiki for project use. It will also provide such things as sub-domains to host websites of approved projects under the domain.
19:09 Marten has joined ([email protected])
19:09 JWPlatt: is NOT affiliated in any way with Cyan Worlds. It is NOT a repository for the open source code.
19:09 JWPlatt: has not communicated with Cyan Worlds about the open source project, nor has Cyan Worlds communicated with
19:09 JWPlatt: But if it is allowed to publicly store the open source code at unofficial sites, will look into it.
19:09 JWPlatt: I recommend that any projects depending on the use of the open source Uru code hold off until Cyan Worlds releases the details of their plan and we know what is possible and relevant.
19:10 JWPlatt: Finally:
19:10 JWPlatt: Please understand that is still under development and the answers I provide today are the intentions as they stand today. The learning process under flexible systems often brings change and progress.
19:10 JWPlatt: What that means depends on the wants and the needs of the projects which choose to use In other words, the projects should determine the evolution of, not the other way around.
19:11 JWPlatt: I can take A&S now. If you type your question, I will see your name in red and call on you. This system makes self-moderated chat's pretty easy.
19:11 JWPlatt: And of course, A&S really mean Q&A.
19:11 Tailahr: hehe
19:12 JWPlatt: Dit is first to press her buzzer.
19:12 JWPlatt: Dot
19:12 JWPlatt: (Sorry)
19:12 Dot: Sorry, too, it was an error
19:12 JWPlatt: Jane?
19:12 amonre: JWPlatt: you mean send PMs?
19:12 JWPlatt: No, send them in the clear.
19:13 Paradox has joined ([email protected])
19:13 amonre: so how exactly do you see what people want to send messages?
19:13 amonre: hi dox
19:13 Paradox: hi amon
19:13 chucker: lo Doc
19:13 Paradox: yo
19:13 JWPlatt: Their names are red when they have a question being typed.
19:13 Jane: JW, you mentioned websites of "approved projects"--approved by whom? (wasn't clear to me exactly what this meant)
19:13 Jane: (sorry for delay)
19:14 chucker: <19:13 JWPlatt: Their names are red when they have a question being typed.> that must be a weird mibbit feature then
19:14 amonre: chucker: i guess so
19:14 JWPlatt: Initial projects are "approved" by me until we can establish a panel of volunteers to handle the process. I'd like to get off the top as soon as possible.
19:14 Marten: Aye, only works for people logged through Mibbit.
19:14 Jane: ok, I see
19:14 amonre raises hand
19:15 JWPlatt: Ok, that's a good solution, amonre, so you get the next Q
19:15 chucker: hey Marten
19:15 amonre: I was wondering what services, exactly, you're going to provide... you mentioned a wiki and a forum, but for any decent fork that's likely not to be enough
19:16 amonre: e.g. a bug tracker, source hosting, whatever
19:16 JWPlatt: This isn't strictly for sofwtare projects. I actually imagine that wherever Chogon decides to put the code, like Launchpad, will get the majority of that use. This is any project at all, not just software.
19:17 chucker raises hand
19:17 JWPlatt: But if someone wants Mantis, for example, I'll install it. It depnds on project needs.
19:17 rarified: I'm not hearing that JW's proposal affiliates OpenURU with any particular "fork".
19:17 chucker: yeah, what rarified said.
19:17 JWPlatt: That's correct rarified.
19:18 JWPlatt: chucker?
19:18 chucker: Can you give examples of what constitutes a project? Is an age a project? Would rewriting the KI user interface be one? Or perhaps you could give an example of what *wouldn't* work as a project…
19:19 JWPlatt: The only project I've been able to think of for myself which I would personally object to is a service called I don't want that kind of load.
19:19 chucker nods
19:19 chucker: so, basically, anything that isn't too massive
19:19 Hedrum: raises hand
19:19 JWPlatt: I do have a point list to give you a better idea about projects. I can paste them in here in a minute.
19:20 chucker: k
19:20 amonre: Hedrum: please don't use colors
19:20 JWPlatt: Yes. Anythign that is not absuive, more to the point.
19:20 JWPlatt: Hedrum?
19:21 Hedrum: would project management be based solely on one person or would there be some kind of system to split phases of projects between people?
19:22 JWPlatt: Projects are as the organizer or organizers define them. I just set up the environment for them to work. I will be hands-off on projects.
19:22 Hedrum: okay
19:22 JWPlatt: Though I might have opinions. ;)
19:22 Paradox raises hand
19:22 JWPlatt: 'dox?
19:23 Paradox: Right now a number of projects are happening at GoW, that's where the coders and technical engine people are... what advantages are there to moving from GoW to a different site?
19:23 Paradox: or even from COBBS to a different site?
19:24 JWPlatt: Nice question... And I actually have a message I wrote someone about this. I will paste it here:
19:24 JWPlatt: My thoughts about were that guilds already have their own resources. I want to be an inclusive, neutral place. That's not to say I wouldn't use guild services when it made sense, and they are just as welcome as anyone else at
19:25 JWPlatt: But I would be pleasantly surprised if the guilds have much use for
19:25 rarified: Perhaps the one thing you could do JW is to formulate a taxonomy for organizing stuff. Presentation wise on forums.
19:25 JWPlatt: The open source world is a big place, so there's room and a place for guilds and there's room and a place for collaborative sites like
19:25 JWPlatt: I imagine guilds will have popular shards and do a good job with development.
19:25 JWPlatt: is a place which hopes to attract people and their projects with the resources they need and might not be able to obtain or afford on their own.
19:25 Paradox: ah, so you're offering a place for projects that are not Guild-related... sounds good :)
19:25 JWPlatt: I don't know of any other site which offers a place of diverse development, freedom and choice.
19:26 rarified: Paradox -- I hope you don't think *all* the technical minded folx have joined Guilds yet :)
19:26 Tailahr: Or, "are" guild-related, but where multiple guilds can come together, maybe?
19:26 Paradox: right
19:26 Dot: Yes, Tai
19:26 JWPlatt: Good idea, rarified. A project form would help with me setting up things and having projects thinik about what they want to do.
19:27 Paradox: rarified > Well, I know the Plasma hackers all hang out at GoW... that's where libPlasma and PyPRP work...
19:27 Marten: I think some people see "Guild" and think "Politics", no matter how the guilds attempt to avoid that.
19:27 chucker: yes indeed.
19:27 JWPlatt: Sure, Tai'
19:27 amonre: that's one reason why I have avoided the guilds
19:28 chucker: Doc: but technically speaking, that's not where such development /should/ happen
19:28 rarified: Agree Paradox; just that -- for me at least -- I've experimented without joining anything... yet.
19:28 JWPlatt: On that point, I have more text from PMs I've have with people. First, any waiting questions?
19:29 vid raises hand
19:29 Dot: My feeling is that Open Uru gives people a chance from guilds or non-guilds to work together
19:29 JWPlatt: vid?
19:29 JWPlatt fears an objection
19:29 Szark: This is what I thought Dot als
19:29 chucker preemptively ignores vid's objection
19:30 Tailahr gets ready to point.
19:30 JWPlatt: Szark after vid, btw, if you have a Q
19:30 chucker chants "Sittin' in the Bevins' suns"
19:30 vid: We've been working to build the guilds in some form or another for years, even before it was a twinkle of 'official' in Cyan's eye, and now open source has arrived and for the first time the guilds really have actual goals to work toward instead of just being fans tinkering...
19:30 Szark: no not yet
19:30 JWPlatt: Yes, way cool, vid.
19:31 vid: But now everyone is dying to get a piece of the action, to be the 'provider', and in a way, that's pretty awesome, since it provides tools for just about everyone, leaving no real room to say 'I couldn't find a way to do it.'
19:31 Szark: nods
19:31 JWPlatt: Nicely said.
19:31 vid: But the problem is, all of this discussion, all of these plans, and all of this effort is currently worth a whole lot of well conceived, beautiful, and tightly packed nothing.
19:32 vid: So my question for you, is about when it will all suddenly matter
19:32 vid: that is to say
19:32 vid: Is it Uru yet?
19:32 chucker throws tomatoes
19:32 Dot: Grrr
19:32 Dot: ;)
19:32 chucker: :)
19:33 amonre: nice
19:33 chucker: I think vid just trolled us all.
19:33 JWPlatt: There are no guarantees, I guess. But this is finally the ultimate chance anyone has to "have an effect" the way it's always been imagined. This is part of making it possible.
19:33 JoeyZoonishii has joined ([email protected])
19:33 chucker: shorah
19:33 JoeyZoonishii: Here's what I think we should do...
19:33 Tailahr: Shorah Joey! (get in line)
19:33 JoeyZoonishii: Hello, everyone...
19:34 chucker: JoeyZoonishii: Q&A session ongoing… raise your hand if you have a question.
19:34 JWPlatt: I'm glad Joey's here because I have a point list about projects, one of which involves him specficially.
19:34 chucker raises hand
19:34 JWPlatt: chucker?
19:34 vid never really got an answer
19:34 chucker: you didn't ask a valid question, vid.
19:35 chucker: I assume from the registered domain name that OpenUru is the final name?
19:35 JWPlatt: When will it all matter? When the developers and engineers get something going, and only then when we have something well defined from Cyan.
19:35 Tailahr: Yes, it IS Uru - whenever two or more of the community come together, then, YES, it IS Uru! :P
19:35 vid: Good answer, Tai.
19:35 vid sits down.
19:35 Jane: yay Tai! :)
19:35 Tailahr: :D
19:35 JWPlatt: chucker, the domain name is final. Were you looking for a different name?
19:36 amonre: yes, because openuru is lame
19:36 JoeyZoonishii: (Let's not get biblical, Tailahr....)
19:36 chucker: Just wondering since we don't know yet (although I'll strongly lobby for it) that Uru will be its name, plus OpenUru is a little generic.
19:36 JWPlatt: hehe
19:36 Tailahr: JW, I think his question refers to what the game will be called.
19:36 chucker: Cause really, if anyone launches Myst fan sites with generic names, it's me.
19:36 vid: Uru running on OSMO! :D
19:36 Hedrum: sounds too much like open arena
19:36 Dot: Generic leaves things open
19:36 JWPlatt: Generic sound rather neutral,. ;)
19:37 chucker: Tailahr: no…
19:37 rarified: CageURU?
19:37 rw: I like generic/neutral
19:37 Tailahr: oop, sorry
19:37 chucker: okay, another…
19:37 Dachannien: so beautiful..... yet so neutral
19:37 chucker raises hand
19:37 Tailahr sits down.
19:37 Hedrum: open uru sounds... so.... withered
19:37 JWPlatt: It was either that, chucker, or
19:37 Marten: Because "OpenDni" sounds like someone left the lid up.
19:37 chucker: heh.
19:37 chucker: please god no :)
19:37 amonre: haha
19:37 Jane: lol JW
19:37 Hedrum: lol
19:37 chucker: Marten: :P
19:37 vid: I say give URUTube to Marten
19:37 JoeyZoonishii: Could we do away with the "Open"? That's such a cliche.
19:38 JWPlatt: chucker, again?
19:38 chucker: Are you considering something like GANTT charts etc. for project tracking?
19:38 chucker: Cause that would be unique and stuff for a Myst fan site. So far, anyway.
19:38 JoeyZoonishii: I mean, if we want to be creative, look up an ancient Sumerian word for "open"...
19:38 chucker: JoeyZoonishii: hardeeharhar
19:38 JWPlatt: I am considering project mamangement software, if one or more projects have a need for it. Whether it has GANT charts is up to the software. And I'd ask for opinions on which software to choose.
19:39 Paradox: ... or just call it "Uru"? >.>
19:39 chucker: ;)
19:39 amonre: gantT*
19:39 chucker: citigroup owns uru.ogr :(
19:39 rarified: already taken -- just checked.
19:39 chucker: *org
19:39 chucker: well an employee of its, anyway
19:39 rw: If I may?
19:40 chucker: please
19:40 JWPlatt: And more Q's before I list some project points?
19:40 chucker: I think rw wants to ask one.
19:40 JoeyZoonishii: Just as a quick interjection, here's some Sumerian: Edin Na Zu = Go to the desert! (a form of exorcism)
19:41 JWPlatt: Good one for vid.
19:41 JWPlatt: rw?
19:41 rw: There are some who I realize desire to work through the guilds. That is fine, I see those as more of the art. Others like myself are interested more in what lies underneath. Additionally, OpenURU will help funnel developers/coders whoes interest parrallel mine, and which could be useful to the overall projects.
19:42 JoeyZoonishii: ...another quick interjection, and I think this one might stick: Uruku = Larvae
19:42 JoeyZoonishii: It could be the UruKu project...
19:42 rw: those opensource individuals outside the established URU community.
19:43 JWPlatt: Exactly rw. The number of people available outside the community right now, who might be niterested and available, far outnumbers those within it.
19:44 ChristianWalther has joined ([email protected])
19:44 chucker: lo ChristianWalther
19:44 Paradox: Plasma != Pidgin, Firefox, useful-open-source-app-here... it really has no useful purpose other than to the players and developers
19:44 Tailahr: So, this site will be like a doorway to bring in newcomers to the community who want to work on the source codes?
19:44 Paradox: I don't think we'll see people from outside the Uru community being very interested
19:44 chucker: Doc: well it's been used for other Cyan games, so it /could/ be used for other third-party games… even though it isn't really well-suited.
19:45 amonre: there's no reason to say that it's "not well-suited" because the internals are pretty hidden AFAIK
19:46 Paradox: Plasma internals? ... the PRP files are just binary representations of Plasma's internal classes
19:46 chucker: amonre: I think it's safe to assume that Cyan used it for Hex Isle not because it's a particularly good general-purpose engine, but for NIH, dogfooding and license cost reasons.
19:46 JWPlatt: It is a recource available to newcomers. If they happen on first, then they should be able to find other thnigs quickly by seeing what is there and being active. But a door way imples a gateway, which is not because is a wide world of disocvery. They migth land on a guild first. That's fine too.
19:46 Robin: I see some applications projects, using URU as a core, or starting point, that wouln't necessarily follow the Myst world models. Specifically for education.
19:46 Tweek: from chatting to "certain" people, it sounds like the source can be used for 3rd party games.
19:46 amonre: Paradox: dylib kind of stuff? you're going to have to educate me on that later
19:46 Dot: That is already happening too, Robin
19:47 Tweek: but don't quote me on that, as its nothing definate right now
19:47 rw: There is more to it then Plasma. There are network functions, database functions, etcetera.
19:47 rw: exactly Robin.
19:47 chucker: rw: networking /is/ part of Plasma.
19:47 rw: yes, but not all of it.
19:47 Paradox: no, all of it... *everything* is part of Plasma
19:48 Jane: (sorry all, I have to go--thanks JW)
19:48 chucker: bye Jane
19:48 rw: the database?
19:48 chucker: the database isn't client-side
19:48 JWPlatt: See you, Jane. Thanks.
19:48 chucker: if you mean the shard database
19:48 Paradox: the classes and functions to access the database are part of the Plasma engine
19:48 rw: i am not just looking at this from the client side.
19:48 Jane has left IRC (" ajax IRC Client")
19:48 chucker: the entire backend portion of the client is Plasma
19:48 JWPlatt: Any more questions?
19:48 Paradox: chucker > the client itself is an instance of the plClient class... >.>
19:49 JoeyZoonishii: Are we getting Plasma with the Uru stuff?
19:49 chucker: JoeyZoonishii: yes.
19:49 Paradox: mmm, if Uru stuff == data files, probably not
19:49 Paradox: we're definitely getting the source code for the Plasma engine (not sure what version though)
19:49 rw: is or does Plasma include the database itself?
19:50 chucker: rw: you mean the RDBMS?
19:50 JoeyZoonishii: I was simply curious if the game engine would be under different licensing restrictions than the rest of the game.
19:50 Paradox: The database is powered by either MySQL or Oracle (based on the version)
19:50 rw: exactly.
19:50 chucker: obviously Plasma doesn't bring its own RDBMS. why would it. o_O
19:50 chucker: JoeyZoonishii: we don't know
19:50 rw: exactly.
19:50 Paradox: Plasma sets up the database though, writes to the database, reads the database, etc... all of that is part of the engine
19:50 chucker: that's like saying Plasma isn't the OS, so not everything is Plasma
19:50 rw: there is more to it and how well it functions then just Plasma.
19:51 JoeyZoonishii: I suppose that's just a discussion to table until we actually see what's released.
19:51 Guest_84428 has joined ([email protected])
19:51 JWPlatt: Ok, I'm going to list some project points:
19:51 Paradox: rw > such as?...
19:51 chucker: JoeyZoonishii: yeah. I'm impatiently waiting for Cyan to announce the license conditions. :)
19:51 JWPlatt: Then more questions if you have them:
19:51 JWPlatt: Projects are in control of themselves. There are project organizers (or leaders), moderators, and members. will accept projects through some simple submission process, but it will neither determine nor interfere with their agendas.
19:51 JoeyZoonishii: J-Dub, get on to the points! *bangs gavel*
19:52 JWPlatt: Projects may use as much or as little of the resources available. They are not required, for example, to put up a website. But they have that option.
19:52 JWPlatt: Projects can be as public or as private as its organizers wish. prefers open diversity, but understands some projects might need spoiler protection or to work under NDAs...
19:52 JWPlatt: For example, many security combinations are possible for how visible a forum is and how accessible it is to those who can see it.
19:52 JWPlatt: Projects don't have to be big deals. If Mowog wants to do more research on Joey Zoonishi's signatures, that might be welcome too. Some lighter projects would be nice.
19:53 JWPlatt: And just something about "hierarchy":
19:53 JoeyZoonishii: ...the end point of that research is just the fact that I make up assinine last names everytime I finish writing a post.
19:53 JWPlatt: is a place of equality. It is making a conscious effort to mute hierarchy by not assigning special colors to mods, admins, and so forth. There is currently just one automatic rank - Member - which you get with your first post...
19:53 JWPlatt: As one person affirmed to me, "you see the kind of assumptions some people make when Tweek or ddfreyne post on the MO:UL forums because of their posting color...
19:54 JWPlatt: Naming mods so people can find them when they need to is fine, but there's no need to confuse the flow of a thread with the hierarchical inferences you allude to...
19:54 JWPlatt: - On the odd occasion when a mod or admin posts in those roles they can declare it, rather than disclaiming it at all other times."
19:55 JWPlatt: So just a little statement of principles there, and more questions if you have them, please.
19:55 chucker raises hand
19:55 JWPlatt: chucker?
19:55 chucker: Which projects get a kitchen sink?
19:55 chucker: (sorry)
19:55 JWPlatt: Whichever one needs it, and not before.
19:56 Szark: lol
19:57 JWPlatt: You raise a good point about tool confusion, however. I'd like to make sure that the tools don't get so numerous as to cause dispersion of effort. Such an exampl would be to install more than one wiki.
19:58 JoeyZoonishii: (...openID or some sort of single-sign-in would be nice too...)
19:58 JWPlatt: Which is why I'd like expert opinions on what is the proper choice on thnigs.
19:58 Robin: Much easier to find the right tool when the toolbox is organized. ;)
19:58 amonre: JoeyZoonishii: i want openid on all forums from now on
19:58 JWPlatt: There ya go.
19:59 JoeyZoonishii: I would suggest we discuss what we anticipate needing first, rather than discussing specific tools.
19:59 rarified: (gotta run; thanks for putting this together JW)
19:59 amonre: JoeyZoonishii: yeah
19:59 chucker: bye rarified
19:59 amonre: I have the strong feeling that is simply a solution for a need that hasn't arisen yet...
19:59 JoeyZoonishii: What is it, in fact, that we're planning to do?
19:59 amonre: and I really think we should wait before discussing tools
20:01 JWPlatt: I have published the obligatory caution to wait for Cyan details for projech fir which those details are relevant. But Jooe's project, for example, or things like it, could happen any time.
20:01 chucker: what is Joey's project?
20:01 Tailahr: (It's actually Mowog's project, isn't it?)
20:01 JoeyZoonishii: If we're looking for convergence, and unification, it seems we'd need a virtual space in which we can integrate several different communities.
20:01 JWPlatt: "Projects don't have to be big deals. If Mowog wants to do more research on Joey Zoonishi's signatures, that might be welcome too. Some lighter projects would be nice."
20:01 chucker: oh.
20:01 rw: For me personally, I see OpenURU simply serving as a source to find like minded individuals like myself whose sole interest is not necessarily driven by the game aspect of it. In that sense, I see a need for a site like this.
20:02 amonre: signatures?
20:02 rarified has left IRC (" ajax IRC Client")
20:02 JWPlatt: Obviously, amonre doesn't live on the MOUL forums.
20:02 chucker: don't you know? administrators never /use/ their servers.
20:02 amonre: rw: but then it's nothing more than a database
20:02 amonre: there is no amonre on the MOUL forums, no.
20:02 JWPlatt: Joey signs off with a different name every time. Mowog listed ALL of them! :)
20:03 chucker: neat
20:03 Tailahr:
20:03 Dagda has left IRC (" ajax IRC Client")
20:03 JWPlatt: Heh, wow, had the link ready!
20:03 Dagda has joined ([email protected])
20:03 Paradox: rw > I see most of the programmers either continuing their work at GoW, or moving to Launchapd/Googlecode when Cyan releases the code
20:03 Tailahr: Nah, went and got it.
20:03 JoeyZoonishii: If we already have guilds, I'm wondering if there's a solution which allows for the guilds to have a unique communal space hosted under the central banner of "OpenUru" or whatever.
20:03 rw: well, there is a lot that can be done with databases and their schema, etcetera which ultimately can affect how well what you use them for performs.
20:03 chucker: sure
20:04 chucker: there are plenty of ways to create mutually incompatible forks
20:04 chucker: it's near-inevitable
20:04 Dot: Dox, not all coders are in GoW
20:05 Guest_16464: I think it's a mistake to assume "the programmers" are at GoW.
20:05 JoeyZoonishii: Personally, all I see out there are billions of forums, and people aren't going to register at all of them.
20:05 Paradox: Dot > what type of coder do you mean?
20:05 Guest_16464: What Dot said.
20:05 amonre is a coder and is not in GoW and has no plans to join the GoW either
20:05 JWPlatt: Paradox, I would imagine the same thing, and noted it above, about guilds like the GoW.
20:05 JoeyZoonishii: Believe it or not, I'm technically a programmer.
20:05 rw: And I will be at the Launchpad or whatever Cyan uses as well. and reading what is occuring at GoW, as I do now.
20:05 amonre: meh, no launchpad :(
20:05 chucker: you need to stop with your bzr hate
20:06 amonre: i'll shift my bzr hate onto my git hate
20:06 Dot: hehe
20:06 Paradox: bazaar looks good, and is well suited to multiple branches of near-identical code
20:06 amonre: Paradox: so is git, and so is hg
20:06 amonre: except that is is so bad that it's almost unusable
20:06 Paradox: We've already decided that git is useless...
20:06 amonre: yea :>
20:07 Guest_84428 has left IRC (" ajax IRC Client")
20:07 JoeyZoonishii: So, are we expecting multiple development branches?
20:07 chucker: it's hardly the end of the world unless Cyan goes with SourceSafe
20:07 chucker: then it really is.
20:07 amonre: JoeyZoonishii: well... definitely, yes
20:07 Paradox: chucker > They did in the PotS days >.>
20:07 ChristianWalther: Do you think we'll get Cyan's history as well, not just the current state?
20:07 chucker: Doc: I'm not surprised. It's still frighteningly common.
20:07 Paradox: then switched to SVN shortly thereafter
20:07 chucker: ChristianWalther: unlikely
20:07 amonre: ChristianWalther: no history
20:08 ChristianWalther: Well then it doesn't matter what Cyan currently uses.
20:08 amonre: exactly
20:08 chucker: ChristianWalther: would be too hard to make sure closed-source third-party internals would never be mentioned
20:08 Paradox: Joey > There will be multiple branches
20:08 JoeyZoonishii: I only ask because I'm trying to get an idea of the scope of this thing...
20:08 amonre: there is no way you can avoid multiple branches/forks... it is open source, and everyone will do what they like
20:09 Paradox: I need to branch the entire code in order to make it work natively on Mac and Linux... someone else will need to branch the entire code to redo the KI/GUI classes
20:09 amonre: JoeyZoonishii: it's hard to tell
20:09 Paradox: then we try to merge those branches back into another branch
20:09 amonre: and that's why we should use hg because it loves merging
20:09 amonre: :>
20:09 amonre: </advertising>
20:09 Paradox: ... which will be branched when someone else wants to add a feature...
20:10 Paradox: As long as we don't try to use SVN, we're fine... 'cause SVN would suck for a project like this
20:10 amonre: yea but now we're just repeating things from the VCS thread
20:10 Paradox: yep :>
20:10 chucker: but the VCS thread sucks
20:10 chucker: :)
20:10 JoeyZoonishii: Hrrm... how many different builds are we expecting? Who's deciding what goes into the final build?
20:10 Paradox: final build?
20:10 amonre: there will be no single final build
20:10 Paradox: This is open-source...
20:11 chucker: JoeyZoonishii: there will be at least one distribution. any developer can create it.
20:11 amonre: there may not even be anything official
20:11 JoeyZoonishii: Well, all right...
20:11 ChristianWalther: Paradox, since you talk about the Mac/Linux client with such confidence (here and elsewhere), do you know how feasible that is? Is the DirectX code cleanly separated?
20:11 amonre: and there will be multiple "central repositories" like i said in that VCS thread
20:11 Paradox: I don't know for sure... plDXPipeline is a mess to disassemble, so we've never really looked at it in much detail
20:11 Paradox: but Plasma did at one point run on GLIDE
20:12 JWPlatt: Okay, if you could spare a few more moments, are there any more questions before I make some closing remarks?
20:12 Paradox: so the plPipeline base should be generic enough to hack a plGLPipeline into existence
20:12 ChristianWalther: OK, right - I forget that we're not the first ones to port Plasma to Mac OS, realMyst and EoA have been there before.
20:12 Dot: May I suggest something?
20:12 JWPlatt: Yep!
20:13 Dot: It looks like the coders (generic term) could do with getting together whether they are in a guild or not
20:13 Dot: This looks a potentially fruitful discussion.
20:13 chucker: ChristianWalther: it should be noted that realMyst uses Plasma 1, which is very, very different from Plasma 2 and 3
20:14 Dot: Is that something that would be useful? This type of exchange of ideas?
20:14 Paradox: right... but he does bring up the MV issue... checking what it uses for a pipeline now
20:14 chucker: ChristianWalther: has some info if you're interested
20:14 chucker: bbs
20:14 JWPlatt: Dot?
20:15 Dot: I've said it.
20:15 JoeyZoonishii: Dot, I'm having a few concerns as to what sort of guiding vision the project will have... I mean, even Dries What's-his-face of Drupal fame seems to keep some general release in mind.
20:15 amonre: buytaert
20:15 JoeyZoonishii: Yeah, that guy.
20:16 JWPlatt: Okay, thanks. To your point, there are already some really interesting discussions goign on at about setting up systems, and also one about implementing the path from the Cleft to D'ni.
20:16 Hedrum has left IRC (" ajax IRC Client")
20:17 JWPlatt: But on the topic, as Marten expressed, that "Some people are muttering 'Oh great, another forum'," I'll add this:
20:17 JWPlatt: is a project site. The forums are a tool - not the purpose. They are one tool among the many I hope to provide for a diverse set of projects as they show or request a need for them.
20:17 JWPlatt: Any more questions before closing?
20:18 Tailahr: Did you want to address the "staying legal" issues?
20:18 JoeyZoonishii: Well, I've got a question...?
20:18 JWPlatt: Ummm, okayyy, Joey. Yes? ;)
20:18 JWPlatt: More specifically, Tai'?
20:19 JoeyZoonishii: Err... is OpenUru sort of an umbrella for several different flavors of Uru, or is it one particular flavor?
20:19 Szark: all flavours
20:20 Tailahr: Guidelines, I guess. On the MOUL forum, hacking can't even be discussed. You requested that users on this site not post anything illegal or not allowed by Cyan, but there can still be discussion. So, where's the line?
20:20 JWPlatt: Not really. It's an umbrella for any sort of diverse project set people can imagine. That could include coders, but isn't limited to code projects.
20:20 JoeyZoonishii: Okay, I think that's where my confusing was stemming from...
20:20 Paradox: Tai > Once the source is released... nothing is "hacking"
20:20 Paradox: since it's just discussing the code and how it works
20:20 Tailahr: oh, I think there may still be some things not released.
20:21 Marten: code vs data
20:21 JWPlatt: The line is what's legal, however any entity would define their lawful rights, whether it is Cyan or anyone else.
20:21 JoeyZoonishii: (plans to create Strawbruru: Uru in Pink)
20:21 amonre: did you steal that idea from me? :>
20:21 JoeyZoonishii: (Yes.)
20:22 Dot: But he gave it a good name :)
20:22 JWPlatt: As I posted on MOUL, I don't not think UU will be legal because that's not where the open source code is coming from.
20:22 Tailahr: But, basically, they can hold discussions there now which at the present can't be held on MOUL, right?
20:22 JWPlatt: Ack. Don't not = do not. Sorry.
20:22 Paradox: UU isn't illegal >.>
20:22 JoeyZoonishii: It isn't illegal until you're behind bars.
20:23 Tailahr: rotfl
20:23 JWPlatt: Legal limbo, 'dox?
20:23 Paradox: running a piece of software for its intended purpose is not illegal
20:23 Paradox: The only part that might be illegal is running an Auth server
20:23 rw: gray area, let Cyan pursue it.
20:23 JWPlatt: Any more questions?
20:24 Paradox: rw > Cyan won't pursue it... they don't have the manpower to deal with it
20:24 rw: which leaves it in the gray area.
20:24 amonre: yea
20:24 JWPlatt: Questions, quickly please, before we get into the political arena. ;)
20:24 Szark: no
20:24 amonre: no more questions
20:25 rw: No, Thanks JW for setting this up.
20:25 Robin: nada
20:25 JoeyZoonishii: Bring on th' pollytics! *bangs gavel*
20:25 hanse has left (hanse)
20:25 JWPlatt: Okay, one more thing to say, and I'll leave you with that...
20:25 JWPlatt: BAD, in a post at the GoW, basically kicked me in the pants, telling to stop talking and do something. I've had a few achievements in and for the community, and I had begun my plans before BAD's post, but he was somewhat right.
20:25 JWPlatt: So with that in mind, I wrote this to someone else I respect:
20:26 JWPlatt: The prospect of offering a diverse set of project areas conveniently under one roof with a lobby to allow a great exchange of ideas is exciting. That Wiki guy might say this could allow a movement of of patterns among people.
20:26 JWPlatt: Beyond that, people like us know how to set up websites so we do it for ourselves.
20:26 JWPlatt: But many can't and I'm hoping those people can find a home here to do the kind of things you have done for yourself.
20:26 JWPlatt: I just don't have the time to make Uru a full time development hobby for myself even though it would be grand fun. But I do have the time and resources to advocate those things and offer an environment to foster the ideas of others.
20:26 JWPlatt: Oh, I'll look at the code and see if there's something I can do. It'll be interesting. But if I can attract just a few code projects here, and other things, I'll be happy knowing I've contributed to a collective capacity to do more than I could do alone.
20:27 JWPlatt: That's all. So I hope that answers any questions people might have about my motives and intentions. Thanks.
20:27 Szark: nicely said and thx JW
20:27 ChristianWalther: Thanks JW
20:27 Dagda: thanks JW
20:28 JoeyZoonishii: Wonderful for you to set this up!
20:28 Dot: Thank you, JW. Good project, and exciting, as you say
20:28 Robin: Thanks, JW, I know a lot of us appreciate the work that does get done, by you and others.
20:28 JWPlatt: You're all welcome. And thanks for coming, folks!
20:28 Szark: Yes I think this will be a valuable tool of the coming months/years
20:28 Tailahr: Yays!
20:29 Szark: now how do attract more
20:30 Szark: by producing something worthy for people to take note
20:30 Dot: It'll happen, Szark.
20:30 Szark: and that won't happen until next year
20:31 Robin: Once this gets rolling, see if CG World would be interested in doing an article? Spreading the word...
20:31 Szark: Chill for xmas and then roll on a busy new year
20:31 amonre: Robin: an article about openuru?
20:32 Robin: Yes, and the URU projects in general.
20:32 amonre: Robin: openuru doesn't even *have* anything yet... it's *way* too early for that
20:32 Robin: As I said, once it gets rolling.
20:32 Szark: I think that will come organiclly if and when it is back online
20:32 amonre: it's good to be excited, but blind excitement isn't useful for anyone
20:33 JoeyZoonishii: I'm so excited! *runs into a wall*
20:33 Szark: lol
20:34 amonre: movie time for me, seeya
20:34 Tailahr wishes everyone a Merry Christmas and runs off to Svigemore's party in SL, now.
20:34 Robin: TTFN
20:34 Tailahr: - /wavebye
20:34 Dot: Bye all
20:34 Robin has left IRC (" ajax IRC Client")
20:34 Szark: Bye everyone it has been very informative. I have learned a lot.
20:35 Szark: and thx again
20:35 Dagda: bye all :)
20:35 rw: - /wavebye
20:35 Dagda has left IRC (" ajax IRC Client")
20:35 Szark has left IRC (" ajax IRC Client")
20:35 rw has left IRC (" ajax IRC Client")
20:35 Guest_16464 has left IRC (" ajax IRC Client")
20:35 Tailahr has left IRC (" ajax IRC Client")

Sören Nils 'chucker' Kuklau

(Or something.)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:19 pm 
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 2:18 am
Posts: 1420
Excellent exchange, folks! It's exciting to see the groundswell of support for OpenUru (or whatever) well in advance of its actual appearance.

By the way:

If Mowog wants to do more research on Joey Zoonishi's signatures, that might be welcome too. Some lighter projects would be nice.

HA! Thanks so much for the mention. I'm still not sure what motivated me to do that one, but it was fun.


MOUL KI: 174162


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:59 pm 
Creative Kingdoms

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 6235
Location: Everywhere, all at once
Any time, Mowog! :)

MediaWIki is now available for project use at

The wiki is a blank slate. It will be worked on as time permits.

Login is required to view and edit pages. This can change if the requirement becomes an issue. It is a separate login from the forum.

Projects are encouraged to make requests for any further tools they might need.

Subdomains are available for project websites and email on the domain.

Remember, is not just about open source code. It's about providing web resources for anything you want to accomplish in the wide open universe of Uru.

_________________ An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Make a commitment.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 6:40 pm 

Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 7:56 am
Posts: 84
So sorry for off-topic post.
I'm posting a question here as I missed Sat. Dec. 20th's discussion.
I am unable to post after being accepted/verified and logged into OpenUru.
I looked in the Help section.
I cannot see a relevant button. I don't understand.
I wanted to PM JW here but found that when I click on the name, JWPlatt, I am unable to send a PM.
My post is inappropriate to the thread but I am failing at PM'ing, posting at OU.
I did take my Gingko Biloba but that's not helping.
Sorry for such a ditzy post.
I tried 4x to PM in OU. JWPlatt isn't recognized.
Unable to PM the Admins., there, either.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:00 pm 
Former MystOnline Moderator

Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:05 pm
Posts: 4208
Location: 56°2'26", -3°20'28"
In case anyone else is having trouble posting on the OpenURU forums, they might have missed the additional step that JW added to help defeat SpamBots: After getting registered, you must join the "Members" usergroup to be allowed to post.

Do this:

Log in to the OpenURU forums
Click on "User Control Panel"
Select the "Usergroups" tab
In the Groups you'll see "Members" in the "Non-Memberships" section - select it.
At the bottom of the screen make sure "Join selected" in shown in the "Select:" drop down box.
Hit "Submit"

You'll automatically be added to the usergroup and after a few minutes, you should get a confirmation e-mail. You should then be able to post.

He did actually give an instruction to this effect somewhere, but it's easily overlooked.

Image Mac - MOULagain KI#00004826 00004289
In the interests of the environment, this post has been constructed entirely from recycled electrons.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:29 am 
Obduction Backer

Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 10:02 pm
Posts: 2266
Location: Tigard, OR
Two small notes.

First, is that you'll have to wait for validation by e-mail before you can even log in to change your account to 'Member'. I'm not certain what the point of manually updating one's account to 'Member' is, if the accounts require administrative approval in the first place... but *shrug*.

Second, it appears that the wiki account is separate from the forum - you'll have to create your account on each independently if you want to use both.

MOULa KI: 26838 | Prologue Videos | Visit to explore Myst, Uru, and D'ni communities!
Click here for social/game profiles

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:33 pm 
Creative Kingdoms

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 6235
Location: Everywhere, all at once
Gehn's project:

Gehn, if you, or others like you, would like a more flexible place of resources which can handle a project like this with pictures in a forum thread, or a website on a subdomain for your project, please feel free to request project space on

Edited for new context.

_________________ An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Make a commitment.

Last edited by JWPlatt on Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:49 pm 

Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 11:30 pm
Posts: 1116
JW, if you're really serious about that website, you absolutely need to change the homepage and everything else as well... I mean c'mon... a standard forum and a standard wiki (unconnected I might add) does not a project website make...

Not criticizing what you're trying to do (I like new initiatives), just saying it needs a lot of work... if you want to be taken serious, that is.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:15 pm 
Creative Kingdoms

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 6235
Location: Everywhere, all at once offers a more flexible and accepting place to express, display and develop ideas like Gehn's.

Edited for new context.

_________________ An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Make a commitment.

Last edited by JWPlatt on Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:24 pm 

Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 11:30 pm
Posts: 1116
Not debating, just expressing my personal opinion and it hasn't changed yet :P It wasn't any more off topic than your offer to take his ideas elsewhere :)
/end of discussion on my part so as not to hijack thread any further

EDIT: whaaaaaaaaat, the message above mine got rewritten, now it doesn't make sense whatsoever what I said here. Even my first message doesn't make too much sense now, I just responded because I thought it rather presumptious to invite somebody to discuss something elsewhere for some reason or the other in a place that is AS YET inferior to this forum in every way, with only a fraction of its membership as well. However, I have nothing against, there are enough websites already so one or two more or less won't make a big difference :D Should be interesting to see how it develops though, good luck with it, JW!

Last edited by Sophia on Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:38 pm 
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 6:23 pm
Posts: 4589
Location: Dutch mountains
I did split off above 4 posts from this topic: and merged them to a more appropriate thread.
Above 4 posts do not have anything to do with the great subject Gehn, lord of ages posted in his Interface for Open Source Uru Live

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:49 pm 
Creative Kingdoms

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 6235
Location: Everywhere, all at once
Thanks for the better venue, Veralun.

Sophia wrote:
JW, if you're really serious about that website, you absolutely need to change the homepage and everything else as well... I mean c'mon... a standard forum and a standard wiki (unconnected I might add) does not a project website make...

The home page is extremely simplistic and the software is standard because I support a philosophy of simplicity. I will probably stick with that for the most part because simplicity and maintainability are key to doing this for the community while living and earning for a real life. Simplicity is good when dealing with recurring tasks. Take a look at some of our own highly-customized community sites and see how difficult it can be to upgrade as newer software tools are released. Watch the struggles anywhere as original developers leave and critical knowledge and skill is lost. Creators do their progeny no favors by deploying demonstrations of their mastery over arcanery. Maintenance can be a difficult burden and I'd rather be able to quickly respond with newer tools.

The wiki is independent from the forums, for simplicity and on the same domain for collaborative project documentation, so that it is available for anyone - even those who do not wish to join Yet Another Forum but would like to see or research some end product of condensed forum discussions.

Projects are free to ask for more tools than just a wiki. There's a ton of stuff out there and I'm happy to consider anything a project needs which would also be good to have for other projects generally. is about what the projects make it. Not about me or my projects. Not about the site itself. In a sense, *is* my project to give others the resources and capacity to do what I cannot do alone. It is similar to how I feel Uru should have empowered the community with a *real* chance to affect it since its birth. It is about helping to provide the resources projects require to achieve their goals in an open community of projects and idea exchange. The websites which may appear in their own subdomains (for free) under the domain can be as flashy as they need. offers projects web hosting with storage, data transfer, and tools they might need and would otherwise have to obtain and maintain for themselves.

I would rather spend my time supporting the projects with what they need. If enough projects are attracted to such a community site, then maybe we'll spend some time on glitz. But to spend it now, just weeks after starting and before the true nature of Open Source Uru is fully known, would be a grossly premature and presumptuous expense. I believe what people do at at its heart is more important than a "cool" exterior. I rather enjoy the simple exterior and putting the time and money where it counts.

_________________ An Uru Project Resource Site : Twitter : Make a commitment.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:55 am 
Creative Kingdoms

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 6235
Location: Everywhere, all at once
Marten wrote:
you'll have to wait for validation by e-mail before you can even log in to change your account to 'Member'.'s admin validation policy has been lifted. Accounts will remain user-validated for as long as spambots are not a problem. This means immediate access for new users.

Remember to put yourself into the Members Usergroup to be able to start new topics and use other normal features. Do this via the User Contrl Panel's Usergroups tab. Select the Members Usergroup, make sure "Join selected" is showing in the drop-down box, and click "Submit."

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