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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:29 pm 
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The first inception of this concept appeared back in the UU days. It wouldn't be very interesting to dig up old chat logs and try to post an explanation, but perhaps the following analogy would enlighten your perspective.

Imagine how much your enjoyment of a puppet show would be affected if an unrestrained individual or a number of individuals kept tugging the curtain aside so that the puppeteer was constantly being pointed out to the audience. Imagine the dismay of the puppeteer(s) who spent so much time and effort attempting to create an illusion only to continually have it stripped of its magic.

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...I seem to recall that It was paraphrased by a fan somewhere in these forums that RAWA once might have said that they didn't have a firm release date -- shortest would be 1 year, longest would be 3,4,8 or 10 years.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:57 pm 
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Apparently you have never even tried the program. WhoM does nothing of the sort.

Now, would you kindly leave the adults to their business?

EDIT: I forgot to mention that your feature suggestion to see what avatars are on each account has been noted and may be included for a future version of WhoM. Thank you for your suggestion!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:42 pm 
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If you are saying that your program does not allow you to access and display game information without having to be in-world, then I'll gladly retract my statement. If, on the other hand, it does provide this opportunity, then I stand by my objection and would hope that Cyan draws a line in the sand about this sort of activity.

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...I seem to recall that It was paraphrased by a fan somewhere in these forums that RAWA once might have said that they didn't have a firm release date -- shortest would be 1 year, longest would be 3,4,8 or 10 years.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:47 pm 
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Regnad Kcin01 wrote:
If you are saying that your program does not allow you to access and display game information without having to be in-world, then I'll gladly retract my statement. If, on the other hand, it does provide this opportunity, then I stand by my objection and would hope that Cyan draws a line in the sand about this sort of activity.


The program displays your buddy list and lets you see who is online. It's like taking a limited version of your KI back to the surface with you; what's wrong with that?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:48 am 
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Herohtar wrote:
The program displays your buddy list and lets you see who is online. It's like taking a limited version of your KI back to the surface with you; what's wrong with that?


The problem is that he's a puritan and a troll. You won't talk any sense into him.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:15 am 
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Enough of this foolishness, troll. You've changed your argument from post to post, grasping at straws to find a reasonable objection to a tool that I worked very hard to create. I am not amused nor do I appreciate your antics. It's people like you that make me want to throw away everything I have ever made, maintain, and, run for this game. Heed my words: my patience is running out. It is so very easy to type # rm -rf / Do not try me. I will do it.

That's not a threat. That's a promise.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:56 am 
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AdamJohnso wrote:
Enough of this foolishness, troll. You've changed your argument from post to post, grasping at straws to find a reasonable objection to a tool that I worked very hard to create. I am not amused nor do I appreciate your antics. It's people like you that make me want to throw away everything I have ever made, maintain, and, run for this game. Heed my words: my patience is running out. It is so very easy to type # rm -rf / Do not try me. I will do it.

That's not a threat. That's a promise.


Just put both of his accounts on your ignore list. I did and I'm happier for it. (I'm not sure why he gets two, but c'est la vie!)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:18 am 
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@Adam

You appear to be confused about my meaning, AJ. You appear to believe that this is about you. That’s unfortunate because it really isn’t and shouldn’t be. The question isn’t what is wrong with this particular application, but rather what is wrong with the premise that it is both wise and appropriate to hack the game in order to produce and distribute a tool that allows one to access real-time in-world content from an out-world location. If Cyan abdicates the right to completely prohibit bringing real-time content outside the cavern, (at least when it comes to Cyan servers), it implicitly opens the door to allowing the extraction an ever expanding variety of such information along with the opportunity to publish it in real-time.

I have seen first-hand the results of people publishing real-time data outside the cavern and it was both frustrating and sad as it significantly damaged a lot of hard work and effort done in service of the finest traditions of story telling.

Putting this toothpaste back in the tube is a heck of a lot harder than keeping the cap on in the first place. This is, of course, only one perspective, but it is one that comes from a broad and direct experience that so far you seem unable or unwilling to apprehend.

This isn’t intended to be a personal attack, nor is it trolling. I’m simply presenting a perspective that seems to have been unnoticed.

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...I seem to recall that It was paraphrased by a fan somewhere in these forums that RAWA once might have said that they didn't have a firm release date -- shortest would be 1 year, longest would be 3,4,8 or 10 years.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:55 am 
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The PREMISE of taking in-world information and making it available out-of-world isn't inherently evil. However, what you do with that ability is another story. It would be evil to publish information that isn't yours that you don't have permission to publish.

You should come to Mysterium...my presentation will touch on this topic.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:58 am 
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AdamJohnso wrote:
EDIT: I forgot to mention that your feature suggestion to see what avatars are on each account has been noted and may be included for a future version of WhoM. Thank you for your suggestion!

Such a feature would be detrimental to the development of fan storylines, IMHO. It's hard enough already to make people interested in non-Cyan characters; knowing who owns which avatar would make it even harder to create believable and engaging IC events.


BTW, a general comment: it's funny (well, not really...) how explorers who care most about the immersiveness of the game are often called "paranoids", "puritans" etc... Don't you ever wonder if maybe they "get" something about Uru that others don't?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:28 am 
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@OHB

Good and Evil are words that point at stuff that is way too strong to be appropriate in this context. In fact, the potential that I've highlighted is important only in so much as it is a strong disincentive for some to participate further in the ongoing evolution of URU.

@Simone

Name calling is born in the cauldron of mulengro and fed more by envy and guilt than anything else. The odd thing is that those who understand the nature of name calling also realize that it has no power over those that understand that a word is not the thing, just as a map is not the terrain.

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...I seem to recall that It was paraphrased by a fan somewhere in these forums that RAWA once might have said that they didn't have a firm release date -- shortest would be 1 year, longest would be 3,4,8 or 10 years.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:05 pm 
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Simone wrote:
BTW, a general comment: it's funny (well, not really...) how explorers who care most about the immersiveness of the game are often called "paranoids", "puritans" etc... Don't you ever wonder if maybe they "get" something about Uru that others don't?


that's the point.. the puritans /don't/ get uru.

One very notable puritan didn't even get the difference between the generic hoods (labeled in game (incorrectly) as Bevins) and Kirel. Going so far as to call Kirel a "BEVIN" (in caps, no less).

Yeah. They totally get Uru.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:11 pm 
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Whatever, let's go back to WhoM. =)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:54 pm 
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Regnad Kcin01 wrote:
If you are saying that your program does not allow you to access and display game information without having to be in-world, then I'll gladly retract my statement. If, on the other hand, it does provide this opportunity, then I stand by my objection and would hope that Cyan draws a line in the sand about this sort of activity.


It's worth noting that Cyan has already given their explicit approval for a program that allows viewing your buddy list & KI Chat without being in-world.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:52 pm 
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AdamJohnso wrote:
It is so very easy to type # rm -rf / Do not try me. I will do it.

That's not a threat. That's a promise.

Surely you meant # rm -rf ./
Deleting one's entire body to excise a tiny spider bite just seems like over-kill. :P

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