It is currently Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:16 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:46 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:14 pm
Posts: 808
Well in the end, that's up to Cyan. They accepted the fix, so if changes are to happen, it will be up to them to decide ultimately. :?

The thing is, physics are bound to change eventually and in a major way: one feature that has been requested for a long time (and I'm for it too) is a Linux version of Uru (oh, and Mac too). To do that, PhysX must disappear and be replaced. This could potentially introduce a lot of new glitches and solve a lot of old ones. However, it's very unlikely this will happen here at MO:ULa, as Cyan's build system doesn't allow for such flexibility. In other words, big huge massive changes will probably never happen here.

If you want to participate in this and in the debate for new features, the best option right now is to sign up for testing on Minkata Shard and test there, or to go on the Gehn Shard to get a preview of the latest changes. Otherwise... Cyan has the final choice.

Adi: As far as I know, internal client are allowed everywhere, so long as you don't hack or use tricks. However, this won't be an internal client. :wink: It would be an external client with the patching functionality removed. I'll put it out there soon in case anybody is interested.

_________________
Lyrositor


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:36 am
Posts: 1303
Location: Back to the surface!
Is there a Cyan guy in the room???

I want a response by a BLUE TEXTER...Please!!!

ResEng Dogherra had a talk with one of my buddies the other day concerning "reversed-engineering" clients. It seems there's a some kind of a clean up going on these recent days... :?

I want it clarify once and for all on 2 questions:

1) Can we use an internal client such as plclient in our personal ages like Chogon wrote in this post:
http://mystonline.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=25680&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Read the post made by Chogon on May 1st, 2012 at 1:24 PM exactly - first paragraph at the very end

It seems the "rules" has changed. We as a community of users need to know, we don't want to come one day on MOULa and see that all our accounts are banned for something that was tolerate...quite confusing and frustrating I must say

2) If Lyrositor makes a tweeked external client, would skydivers considered being "hacking" the server and be chased as such when online?

Thanks for your cooperation!

_________________
Annabelle 47907 - New avatar


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:08 am 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 4250
Location: Digging around in the dusty archives, uncovering Uru history.
Annabelle wrote:
If Lyrositor makes a tweeked external client, would skydivers considered being "hacking" the server and be chased as such when online?

Just my opinion, but I'm sure that if Lyrositor created something like this, he'd clear it with Cyan before releasing it for anyone to use.

_________________
Explorers Memorial * In Memoriam


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:56 am 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:52 pm
Posts: 1159
Location: US
Tai'lahr wrote:
Annabelle wrote:
If Lyrositor makes a tweeked external client, would skydivers considered being "hacking" the server and be chased as such when online?

Just my opinion, but I'm sure that if Lyrositor created something like this, he'd clear it with Cyan before releasing it for anyone to use.

Of course.

And to answer Annabelle's questions, they won't come down on you for skydiving, ;) and plclient is still perfectly fine to use. "Internal Client," in extremely broad and simplified terms, means that it's basically an administrator's client. Cyan has absolutely no issues with us using them in personal ages (Though they aren't responsible if your age becomes unstable from it!) and in the Fun House or Hood of Illusions (Where if anything becomes unbalanced there, the GreyHats can just fix it.).

"External Clients" though, so far, have not been sanctioned for Cyan's server. A couple years back (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here! ;) ), a couple people from the GoW were seeking out bugs that needed fixing on Cyan's MOULa shard. To do so, they were using an external client; when Cyan found out how they found these bugs, it seemed to cause somewhat of a stir. Needless to say, the original update that gave us build 902 was to patch MOULa from the particular intrusion used to find this bug. No one did anything wrong, and obviously we're talking about a slightly different issue altogether, but Cyan seems to prefer strict order as far as external clients are concerned.

My advice, unless Cyan explicitly says otherwise, DO NOT USE EXTERNAL CLIENTS ON MOULa.

_________________
Image
TOC#60089 DI#132103 MOULa is Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:32 am 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 4:41 pm
Posts: 1704
Location: South Georgia
The standard MOULa client is an external client :wink:

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:36 am
Posts: 1303
Location: Back to the surface!
Adams says it all :lol: ...

If you play in windowed mode on MOULa, check in the upper right corner: you'll see this:

UruLive.Live.1.912 - External.Release

That's the external client.

I do understand they might want to hunt down those who tweek the external client, the client using the path uruexplorer.exe. Which is quite normal. The explorers doing such are modifying the executable file that Cyan makes available for the general public.

For the internal client, like plclient, it's internal (correct me if I'm wrong) because it skips all the verification process we undergo with the external client, the spinning updating wheel as instructed not many days ago by Mac_Fife on this forum.

You have access to a lot of commands that normally are not reachable for alpha explorers.

There's some ethics using it. For instance, except on rare occasions and for commands that cannot cause any harm, I will use them on my many accounts I own. For 99.999% of the time, I'm using the avatars on a special account made especially for it.

Like Trekluver pointed out, if I do mess a personal age, I will have to live with that. I had on 2 occasions to recopy a fresh version of an age from my folder UruLive to my folder plClient because the age wasn't reachable no more.

I'm still waiting for a comment by Cyan folks on my questions though. I know it's only 4:50 AM on Pacific Coast LOL!

Another bit of info... Many won't remember this but I recall some Fun House events made by D'Lanor back in the beginning. They were very creative. I'm going there, I don't go for spectacular effects and big entertainments. I have the scripts for such: 1st, I don't understand them (ethically, I must stay away) and 2nd, it doesn't appeal to me.

Where I'm going with this previous paragraph... If it appears that we are restricted to the Fun House (new rules ?!?!?), I see 2 issues:

1st: this is a public age, I was there the other night with an another tester and all of the sudden came someone. In PM, the other tester told me: "what we will do with that explorer?" I said: "We CANNOT get rid of that explorer, it's a public age and everyone can come here if the hood is in public mode".

How can I expect doing some testing in environment where I have no control on barriers (I'm not a member) and where people are expecting me to perform a show?

2nd: the Fun House as a format. Bring fog, bring giant bahro, bring Yeesha, move objects, etc. What if my stuff is more subtle more thought? What I should do about all this? Just to give you an insight not revealing it all: I'm studying the prps, the objects, I'm evaluating the way they act between each others if I add them. I create atmospheres, I create lush environments.

The other night I was with a guy in the Fun House, I won't named him but I'm real mad at him and this is a reason I decided to stop cooperation with him.

I load some prps made some magic and all what I got from him as an answer is: Whatever!

...Whatever! Do you know the sum of work I putted in this "Whatever!"? You don't have a freaky idea! I may wrote some basic scripts but they work and they produce true beauty and magic!

Now what if I'm restrict to be ONLY in Fun House. :? :? It's a long process, I cannot go and tell 40 explorers: "Don't move for about 1 min, I have a lot of changes to make". And then the result: "Well that's that!, Now enjoy exploration... no rabbits pulled out of the hat!"

I prefer "on invite" thing. I can't be distracted by 30 explorers all at once, I like to follow my crew and show them what they can do or not do. I know what changes occurs, what are the areas they can go the areas they cannot go. I can handle 3 or 4 max not 30 explorers!

_________________
Annabelle 47907 - New avatar


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:36 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:14 pm
Posts: 808
I think we're going a bit off-subject here... :? Much as I like to talk about clients, I'd rather go back to the skydiving and marker quests situation.

I've sent a PM to Chogon asking if he could make a public confirmation on this situation to clarify what is allowed and what isn't. I'm personally inclined to believe that it would be okay.

Trekluver, as Adam and Annabelle have stated, using an External client is actually closer to vanilla MO:ULa. What IS more in gray area is the use of truly Internal clients (although the matter had been clarified some time prior to this thread), since these allow for access to the command line, flymode, and so on. The only thing that would be different with the client I'm proposing is that, like an External client, it does not need to fetch its files from the server (except for the Python and SDL; I'm going to leave that in). I'm inclined to believe this is allowed, since it doesn't allow for exploits anymore than the regular client does (the only thing one could do, as far as I see, is use modified versions of the PRPs; to clarify, DON'T DO THAT; but that risk is already well-known, and people don't do it even though they can, so I doubt the Skydivers will suddenly start doing this :D ).

_________________
Lyrositor


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:36 am
Posts: 1303
Location: Back to the surface!
Well I know the thread is somewhat derailed...

since I'm the one who start it all (that's one of my threads) i will flag all the posts not concerning skydiving/jumping stuff to moderation for them to break this thread in two...

EDIT

DONE! All the posts are flagged for moving to a new thread starting from the post made by Isobel yesterday up to this one

I hope the moderation teams won't be bugged by so many change requests in once :wink: I'm not spamming :lol:

_________________
Annabelle 47907 - New avatar


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:09 pm 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:52 pm
Posts: 1159
Location: US
AdamJohnso wrote:
The standard MOULa client is an external client :wink:

Alright alright, you're free to smack me for getting internal and external clients mixed up. :) A big oops on my part. :D

_________________
Image
TOC#60089 DI#132103 MOULa is Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:06 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:13 pm
Posts: 1064
Annabelle wrote:
Is there a Cyan guy in the room???

Ah, well, no. But maybe I'll do. ;-)

The "rules" have not changed and my earlier statement still stands - it is not whether someone is using a modded or internal client in public areas, that is allowed. It is what you do with them that matters. Please do not affect other people's game experience in public areas. And modded or internal clients "… should never be used to modify, change settings, enhance, degrade, remove, add, etc. any Age, avatar or any virtual object that does not belong to you."

On skydiving: I suppose you could create a "special" client with the old bugs but how is that different from just creating a client with *lots* of physics exploits? Maybe I don't fully understand the whole "skydiving thing". And then maybe I don't really want to know. ;-)


Thanks,
Chogon


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:36 am
Posts: 1303
Location: Back to the surface!
@ Chogon: I was expecting that "the guy" be you :D

I got it: if I'm TestAvatar...

I'm in TestAvatar's Teledahn. I'm adding, removing, degrading (not really :lol: ), enhancing (big time :) ) with the help of plclient, I'm ok. I don't alter ExplorerAlpha's experience. He is even not aware I'm messing (no no enhancing :wink: ) my age. Anyway... my effects don't last and I'm really really a novice. I work with what... 6 to 10 commands. That's all!

My scripts are miles long since I don't quite get how to make them shorter.

Great! I will sleep well tonight knowing that my accounts will be there tomorrow. I saw M. Dogherra today in public Ae'gura and I felt safe :). I even crushed him by falling off a wall :lol: He was invisible but I knew he was there anyway. I think you are right to go on explorers that misbehave on server because it can destroy other explorers' gameplay. I wasn't considering myself as a bad apple so I just wanted to make sure I was ok. If it can help other explorers to unstress, it will be great also.

On skydiving:
Well there's a thin line between bugs and bugs. There are good bugs and bad bugs. And if we do make too much changes we will loose the fun. We like it hard but not hard. We like it bugged but not annoying bugged. In other word: can we get back the 1.906 version please :lol: :lol:

_________________
Annabelle 47907 - New avatar


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:50 am 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:14 pm
Posts: 808
Thanks Chogon for confirming. :D
Okay, I've built a client which should have reverted the fix.

Instructions
1. Download UruExplorer.exe.
2. Rename in your Uru Live folder UruExplorer.exe to something different.
3. Copy the downloaded file to your Uru Live folder.
4. Start UruExplorer.exe, NOT UruLauncher.exe. Otherwise, my modified client will get overwritten by the newer client.

Please note that this client will stop working once Uru is updated again. I'll release a new version at that point after a brief delay, and it should work once more. While you wait, launch UruLauncher.exe to update everything (including UruExplorer.exe) so you can keep playing MO:ULa until such a time as the newer version of my client comes out.

Do tell me if it works as intended or not; I'm not a skydiver, and I have no idea what to do to test it. :P

_________________
Lyrositor


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:36 am
Posts: 1303
Location: Back to the surface!
Thank you very much Lyrositor :D

Don't you worry I will throw my Test avatar out of her Teledahn...oh I hear protest from her :lol: and will try and tell you if it's up to what I'm expecting

EDIT: I'm looking at my desktop...I have 14 "uru". It's just one game but comes in many flavours! I might call this one: "Skydiving URU" or something like that.

_________________
Annabelle 47907 - New avatar


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:06 am 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 4:33 pm
Posts: 878
Location: Jurupa Valley, CA USA
Annabelle wrote:
EDIT: I'm looking at my desktop...I have 14 "uru". It's just one game but comes in many flavours!

Old Urus never die, they just get new installations added alongside. ;)

_________________
MOULa KI #32712
MOULa KI #23298
MOUL KI #35129
D'mala KI #74265
Gehn KI #10113


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:41 am 
Offline
Obduction Backer

Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:14 pm
Posts: 808
In my next build, I'll call it something different then. Maybe custom branding, too. ;) It's so easy to do.

_________________
Lyrositor


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 51 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: