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 Post subject: Windows 8
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:13 pm 
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Has anyone here seen or used Windows 8? What do you think?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:07 pm 
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I haven't used it yet, but judging from the screenshots and videos I've seen, Windows 8 shall provide me with one more argument to win people over to the Linux side. :twisted:

I can't see myself using the interface-formerly-known-as-Metro on a daily basis, and Windows 8 makes it so painful to use the traditional desktop I'll most likely wait for hacks to arrive that can restore a "traditional" UX. I like the desktop metaphor as it is today.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:08 pm 
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Just watched the video. It looks cluttered, focusing on apps like the iPad. It may be nice for touchscreens, but it looks relatively useless for a desktop, laptop, or anything without a touchscreen. Also, I am not a fan of the "all apps in one place." It looks cluttered. I'm more a file and folder kind of guy preferring organization to a heap of clutter. It keeps things simpler.

Although Windows 8 looks like it may be cluttered, I think it is a matter of personality. In real-life some people like everything right out in the open, on hand if needed. It may look like clutter, but to them, they know exactly where everything is. I like things kept clean and simple, my desk free and uncluttered. I have everything stored away in files, drawers, etc. Anyways, I don't know if I'll like Windows 8 very much, but I haven't personally tried it, so I can't say for certain.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:28 pm 
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I won't like it either, I believe, for exactly the same reasons you've mentioned here by now ...
I am a similar type of person like you've described it, Guybrush Threepwood, and I don't even
have a mobile phone or smartphone ... I love my Windows7 and I hope it will survive for a very
long time ... :D

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Last edited by janaba1 on Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:33 pm 
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I agree with you guys that the new interface is bad. As for Linux, Unity(the Ubuntu UI) is almost as bad as the Win 8 UI(allthough I have never tried the Win 8 UI) , ALMOST.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:46 pm 
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I personally quite like Unity for Ubuntu; it never crashes for me and gives me easy access to all my programs. Guess it's all a matter of opinion.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:49 pm 
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The changes they've made to the desktop experience make sense after I think about them, but I think that including the formerly-known-as-Metro UI on desktop OSes is stupid. I'm somewhat disappointed that they are essentially throwing away the .NET stuff that I learned in favor of an even more limited framework--I guess it's a good thing I moved on to C++.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:20 pm 
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"Never use verion 1 of any product from Microsoft" - I don't remember who said that, but always seemed to be a pretty good rule of thumb. The one thing you can guarantee is that Windows 8 will be a magnet for virus coders and other malware until the worst of the potential exploits get addressed. I happened with XP, with Vista, with Win 7 and you can bet it'll happen with Win 8.

Let other people be the guinea pigs and wait for at least Service Pack 1 - by then you'll get the views of "real" users and not just the press release hype and the semi-biased opinions of the part-geek early adopters who just want to be first with anything new.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:26 pm 
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AdamJohnso wrote:
The changes they've made to the desktop experience make sense after I think about them, but I think that including the formerly-known-as-Metro UI on desktop OSes is stupid. I'm somewhat disappointed that they are essentially throwing away the .NET stuff that I learned in favor of an even more limited framework--I guess it's a good thing I moved on to C++.


Disclaimer: I work for Microsoft, but my views here are my personal reflections and may not be construed or repeated as official comments from the company.

The .NET framework is still available for the "classic" experience. And C#, as a language, is supported for buliding Windows Store apps. In my opinion, nothing has been "thrown away" merely recycled. Of course, there is still going to be a learning curve for the new WinRT-based framework, so I can appreciate that folks who have invested a lot in the .NET framework will have a hurdle to jump when targeting the Windows Store. The same can be said of C++/Win32 developers who will have to discover which Win32 APIs made it into WinRT and, for the ones that didn't, what are their replacements. But anyone targeting the "classic" desktop will not have to make any changes, since it is all still there.

Overall, the entire Windows 8 release is geared towards touch and tablets. Those of us with desktop experience are going to find it noticeably different and possibly uncomfortable. Is that good or bad? I don't know. Technology has evolved a lot over the decades. Heck, back in the day we were using punched cards, then primarily keyboards and line printers. Add in the monitor and eventually the mouse, of all things. Desktops eventually begot laptops, which begot netbooks and smart phones. Touch and the portability of tablets is the next big thing. I think Microsoft is positioning itself well here for that market.

But, it is not like desktops are going away anytime soon. Vista was a tough release for consumers to accept, but almost all of the key features are present in Windows 7, which many folks consider to be better. Maybe it all just takes time. Insert totally not clichéd joke about Windows 9.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:11 pm 
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Seraku wrote:
Disclaimer: I work for Microsoft, ...

Can we boo / hiss you now? :P

i've found (and tbh, this was pointed out to me) that every alternate Windows OS is good :
Win 98 - good
Win 2000 / ME - bad
Win XP - good
Win Vista - bad
Win 7 - good

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:27 pm 
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Alien wrote:
Seraku wrote:
Disclaimer: I work for Microsoft, ...

Can we boo / hiss you now? :P

Heh... only if you must. ;-)

Alien wrote:
i've found (and tbh, this was pointed out to me) that every alternate Windows OS is good :
Win 98 - good
Win 2000 / ME - bad
Win XP - good
Win Vista - bad
Win 7 - good

Perhaps we should be naming the Windows releases after Star Trek movies to keep up the same pattern?

But then, we would run out of the good ST movies and have to resort to rebooting (no pun intended) the system. Windows: J.J. Abrams Edition, for the win!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:55 pm 
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I have done several test with VM's running with the preview versions already, in order to get used to the new interface etc.
You need to get used to the new GUI Interface with the tiles, like on Windows Phone.
You will see those back under the new coming Server 2012 release in September too.

I installed the W8 RTM Enterprise version on 1 one VM now and will also start a serie of test with it asap.

I'm not that anxious for viruses, as the Internet security tool wilt the AV and firewall beta I was testing [spoiler](Vipre) [/spoiler]worked also OK under W8 already.

Next beta for that AV FW Tool is coming up next week and I will also try out that version on the RTM Enterprise X64 I' ve installed now onder Server 2008 R2 SP1 Hyper-V.

My expectation is that W8 will be well received and will certainly be great to use on the new ultrabook generation, with touch screens that is coming available now.

It also has new features I like too, like Hyper-V (if you have a Intel SLAT compatible processor Intel I3+ or AMD NPT), Windows to Go (bootable W8 USB SDD 32 GB + needed USB 3.0) Plug it in on a W7+ PC and be able to use that hardware except the local HD)
The touchpad that is present on most laptops wil also give some touch options on Windows 8
You can also install Window 8 on a VHD ( virtual harddisk onder Windows 7 and than Run Windows 8 in a dual boot solution
A new UEFI interface to replace tge BIOS and make better protection possible against hacker malversations

It is the Windows alternative for tablets anyway.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:59 pm 
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I read the documentation on the .NET metro/WinRT/whatever to try to figure out how to upgrade my my .NET Plasma library to work with "Metro." It was possible, but I eventually decided that too much changed and that the newer APIs were more trouble than they were worth. The differences in networking were probably the worst. (Hint: There's not going to be a metro WhoM 2.) I think Microsoft is getting worse and worse with regard to designing APIs. I would rather use old school Win32 than the new .NET "Metro" apis.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:36 pm 
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AdamJohnso wrote:
I think Microsoft is getting worse and worse with regard to designing APIs. I would rather use old school Win32 than the new .NET "Metro" apis.

This is an interesting opinion, which I fear may be more common than not with the release of the new O/S. As I said before, there is always a learning curve with new things. And the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that gets spread around tends to distract folks from even wanting to learn. That is not to say that folks are merely getting on the bandwagon to complain with everyone else, but the randomization caused by trying to adapt to new systems is sometimes too much to practically manage. Plus, it is not unreasonable at all to expect strong emotions when folks believe the technologies they have spent so much time learning are being sidelined. Personally, this is how I feel about XNA. I really wish it had a more prominant position in the grand scheme of things.

Whether WinRT on the whole is better or worse than Win32 cannot be simply answered. It is going to depend heavily on the perspective of the developer and their prior experience and the needs of their current and future projects. WinRT cut out a lot of the "fat" of the Win32 API set--methods that either were rarely used at all or were frequently misused. To a developer that relied on one of these removed functions, WinRT will appear to be unacceptably restrictive and less functional. But to a new developer, the reduced surface area could make WinRT seem more focused and potentially easier to use. Either way, the debate could extend indefinitely without resolution.

ARM is another thing to consider. When you introduce a new processor architecture into the mix and the desire to have cross-platform compatibility, having a smaller API set does have its merits. At the end of the day, I do think Microsoft is trying to make it easy for folks to target the Windows Store on both x86 and ARM with minimal effort. Well, with HTML5/JavaScript, things just automatically work. But managed or native WinRT should be a simple retarget and recompile, assuming the Visual Studio folks got everything in they said they would.

Some people like to invoke the saying, "You can't please everyone," but that almost seems like a cheap cop out. Granted, it does not make the saying any less true or any less applicable in this situation; but, as a developer (not necessarily one working for Microsoft), I guess I always hope that the future will bring only better tools, more expressive languages and easier means to write software.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:31 am 
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Quote:
Perhaps we should be naming the Windows releases after Star Trek movies to keep up the same pattern?


LOL you made a joke about that before I did :)

I know that qoats from way-back but I was away for a while and did not have a chance to respond till now. I did not think my thread on Windows 8 would become so active! This thread has become very interesting :)


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