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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:03 pm 
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Mac_Fife wrote:
From the BBC News website: Valve boss Gabe Newell calls Windows 8 a 'catastrophe'

The main complaint seems to be that by including Microsoft's own Windows Store it'll undermine the viability of Valve's Steam (and other online software marketplaces). I don't claim to know the merits in this but I can envisage a similar kind furore as the bundling of Internet Explorer within Windows caused in European legal circles which ultimately led to the enforced "Browser Choice" update. The fact that it seems that on ARM based machines, Windows Store will be the only means of obtaining downloaded software (I'm not quite sure how that could be enforced, though) is bound cause a reaction, if only to spur people into "jailbreaking" the OS.


Interestingly enough, I was reading recently that the whole Anti-Trust thing against Microsoft expired recently.

I'm thinking that this is why Microsoft is not only producing their own hardware (the Surface Pro seems cool to me... I've been looking for a small computer/digital sketchbook for years, but none has materialized in a useable-looking form 'til now), but have bundled their own antivirus/antispyware software with Windows 8, and are producing a closed-ecosystem style store.

o_o Truthfully, I wonder if Microsoft will be able to dodge the whole issue seeing that Valve should function as usual on the Windows 8 (non-RT) desktop.


~Joey TrondleTronks

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:55 am 
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Regarding ARM, Linux (Debian in particular) has supported it for many years now, so I'm not expecting any major lockout on that front. All it will really do is get the Linux hackers more fired up to unlock more devices (I ran Debian on an old Linksys NSLU2 for awhile, worked fine, though I won't do a stunt like that again without a working serial port :P ). I'll also add that Debian has actively supported SPARC for some time now too, even though its dead to the eyes of many (not me).

And regarding Linux, yes I'd be on a Unix instead of Windows at home too, if not for gaming (in my case Solaris, or more likely IllumOS or whatever its called now).

I've seen the statement from Gabe, IMHO he's concerned that MS will somehow turn Win8 and its Marketplace into a market-share magnet, like IE originally did (mostly by offering greatly reduced and/or free apps). I think he's overreacting a bit, though he should stay on his toes just in case.

As another discussion here has mentioned, income through the concept of 'micro transactions,' such as mini-apps, DLC for larger games, etc are where the main money is being earned nowadays (with a few notable exceptions). So yes I can see why MS is doing this.

I do need to ask though - why in Server 2012? If that's getting the interface too (in particular the GUI), why? That will mostly be placed on PCs with no video card (other than compute cards maybe) so I'm finding it hard to justify there.

--TSK

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:40 pm 
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I agree with T_S_Kimball that Gabe Newell's reaction is something of a melodramatic overreaction. But the fact that Steam will still work under Windows 8 maybe isn't going to be the issue: Chrome, Firefox, et al worked perfectly OK on Windows before the European anti-trust case - the issue was that by bundling IE it was seen as undermining the user's right to choose (personally I never saw it that way, but I guess they were considering the niaive new computer user who is scared they'll break it if they install something off the internet).

Joey Zoonishii wrote:
Interestingly enough, I was reading recently that the whole Anti-Trust thing against Microsoft expired recently.
Hmm... not the European one. Under the settlement, Microsoft are obliged to present the Browser Choice at least once to every user until into 2014: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57473 ... er-choice/

However, I do also agree with an observation that Joey made earlier in the thread that people tend initially not to like major changes in the UI of an OS. I've come through virtually every MS desktop OS since the days of DOS 3.3 (with perhaps the sole exception of Windows Me): Windows NT3.5 had an optional shell "upgrade" that gave it a look and feel like Windows 95. I hated it and took it out fairly quickly, but now it's hard to imagine working in those older desktops. After working in NT4 and Windows 2000, moving to XP meant learning where all the things I'd learned about had gotten themselves hidden. Ditto with Win7, but maybe less so. These things are "productivity killers" in the short term, and can put people off to begin with, but in time it becomes "normal".

But it does seem like quite a big paradigm shift with Windows 8. It's clearly oriented toward the mobile/tablet computing platforms and may well be a good move for those, assuming that MS can break into the Android dominated sectors. When you move into the netbook/laptop/desktop arenas I'm less conviced that it "works" for the use cases that those platforms get used for, although I guess once you get past the basic front end of the UI then the applications don't really change, so maybe it doesn't actually matter.

I'll wait and watch - since my company is only just rolling out Windows 7 I can sit safe in the knowledge that it'll be a few years before Windows 8 comes along ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:10 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:39 pm 
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:lol: Yeah, I still have nightmares from when I had to restructure a major piece of software I'd been working on in MS C 6.0 for over a year to use overlays after I ran out of conventional low memory :roll: .

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:30 pm 
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Qouting Charuara:
Quote:
"640K ought to be enough for anybody."


off-topic but I believe this is a misquote, check Wikiqote.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:07 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:54 am 
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Mac_Fife wrote:
However, I do also agree with an observation that Joey made earlier in the thread that people tend initially not to like major changes in the UI of an OS. I've come through virtually every MS desktop OS since the days of DOS 3.3 (with perhaps the sole exception of Windows Me): Windows NT3.5 had an optional shell "upgrade" that gave it a look and feel like Windows 95. I hated it and took it out fairly quickly, but now it's hard to imagine working in those older desktops. After working in NT4 and Windows 2000, moving to XP meant learning where all the things I'd learned about had gotten themselves hidden. Ditto with Win7, but maybe less so. These things are "productivity killers" in the short term, and can put people off to begin with, but in time it becomes "normal".


*shrug* Well, yeah. To be honest, as long as it runs the programs I use I don't think I've ever been bothered by UI changes in any OS.

I think this is because I managed to play through this video game called "Final Fantasy Tactics"... ...anyone who can slog through that can master any menu system the world can throw at you. :D


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:36 am 
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Mac_Fife wrote:
I agree with T_S_Kimball that Gabe Newell's reaction is something of a melodramatic overreaction. But the fact that Steam will still work under Windows 8 maybe isn't going to be the issue: Chrome, Firefox, et al worked perfectly OK on Windows before the European anti-trust case - the issue was that by bundling IE it was seen as undermining the user's right to choose (personally I never saw it that way, but I guess they were considering the naive new computer user who is scared they'll break it if they install something off the internet).


Actually its not naivete as such, its mostly just plain inertia. Common reply to installing another browser has been "but why not use IE - its there already?" This especially includes work, which (there) is compounded by heavy SharePoint use on the 'internal' websites. [Note I have no personal gripe with SharePoint, other than the arm and leg companies like EMC want to charge you for doing a correct backup - even after the VSS changes.]

Regarding widgets:

1) I've always found the weather one useful, though my BlackBerry's TWC app can now fill that role if needed.

2) At the height of my involvement with Eve Online, I did have two widget clocks running - one on local time, the other on Eve (GMT) Time. Eve's major combats are all about having a specific force arriving at a specific time, so having that easily seen was crucial. In the end though, it is also why I've given up on it.

3) @ Tomala, I don't think the closure is as much about Metro as it is about their eventual version of an App Store. This would have competed with it (unfortunately).

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:06 pm 
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I've split the discussion of Win7/Vista gadgets to Microsoft removes Win 7/Vista gadgets resource since it was turning into more than just a passing digression.

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 Post subject: Windows 8
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:42 pm 
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Now that a few bugs playing URU have been ironed out with Windows 7..they do this...lol..I'm not gonna go past XP for as long as I can.. final answer..... :shock:

Maybe someone will try it

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:57 pm 
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Maybe you should re-post this in my thread here.

EDIT: It seems a mod joined your thread to this one when I suggested this.


Last edited by Jamie Marchant on Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:06 pm 
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I've installed MOULa , Gehn, and Minkata, into the win8 preview release on my win PC and into the win8 bootcamp on my Mac. All went exceptionally well :)
except for TOC witch I gave up on because I mentioned I own a mac. So they are unwilling to help on my windows PC um.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:25 pm 
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That's really not fare! A Mac is just a PC who's hardware all comes form Apple Inc and that comes with a prepitery OS, they both use the same X86/X64 processors.


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 Post subject: Re: Windows 8
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:09 pm 
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Hi:
I thought I would revisit this topic now that 8.1 is out, what do you think? Is it much better? I heard it does not run on some older x86_64 processers. (but only a small handful).

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