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Do you sitll use XP
Yes 22%  22%  [ 9 ]
No 51%  51%  [ 21 ]
Not on my primary computer 27%  27%  [ 11 ]
I don't know 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 41
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 Post subject: Re: Still useing XP?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:19 pm 
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Mac_Fife wrote:
Nalates wrote:
AdamJohnso wrote:
Adam's idea that you bought a computer thus an OS License is not needed is just not true.
That's not what Adam said - if you read the context, he was pointing out that OEM licenses (as typically shipped with off-the-shelf PCs) have a license that applies only to the specific hardware with which it is shipped and the license dies with the machine. That's why it's cheaper than a "retail" version that can be moved to other PCs. Hence if your mother board fails and you have to replace it then your license expires, so the question of whether you have the key or not is an entirely moot one since the license that it was tied to no longer exists.


^^^ This ^^^

If your computer dies a horrific death, your license dies along with it. This little detail is why I get the real disc and build my own machines. I assure you that this is much cheaper (and involves 100% less crapware) than dealing with the major OEMs.

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 Post subject: Re: Still useing XP?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:02 pm 
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Adam is right on. OEM installs of Windows have always been limited. Also, today's machines have the key code embedded in the bios/motherboard. Hence, there is no need for the code on the COA. Microsoft has closed the door and this new method of embedding the key will enforce the OEM agreement. If your machine is under warranty and your motherboard dies, the manufacturer has ways to activate a new key on the replacement motherboard. If you replace the motherboard after warranty, the fun begins. If you cry loud enough, MS might give you a new key.

In the case of disk failure, having an image backup and/or factory recovery disks/usb (which you need to make) should get you going again.

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 Post subject: Re: Still useing XP?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:43 pm 
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Mac_Fife wrote:
Nalates wrote:
AdamJohnso wrote:
Adam's idea that you bought a computer thus an OS License is not needed is just not true.
That's not what Adam said - if you read the context, he was pointing out that OEM licenses (as typically shipped with off-the-shelf PCs) have a license that applies only to the specific hardware with which it is shipped and the license dies with the machine. That's why it's cheaper than a "retail" version that can be moved to other PCs. Hence if your mother board fails and you have to replace it then your license expires, so the question of whether you have the key or not is an entirely moot one since the license that it was tied to no longer exists.


I did not read it that way. But, I'll concede the point.

I will point out that XP computers, OEM and otherwise - recovery partition or not, came with a Product Key. Those Product Keys could be moved to new hardware and MS will authorize them for use on new hardware. Whether or not the license dies, Win 8 Product numbers are needed at various points and are not as easy to find as they were with XP.

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 Post subject: Re: Still useing XP?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:26 am 
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I don't want to re-post a box but what Adam just said (on his last post) confirm my anger with the latest PC I bought.

It came with an OEM OS and I cannot control it... If I want to go outside of the "user's dedicated folders", I just cannot even if I unlock manually each folder...

If you are gonna sell me something, I want 100% control over it. Next time, I'll buy an empty PC & an OS and build from there. My last 2 PCs were bought back in the time when companies wouldn't take us for dumb creatures... :roll: :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: Still useing XP?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:07 pm 
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I wonder if you upgrade Windows with a retal upgrade CD, can you then transfer that copy of Windows to another computer? I would say no since your still "using" the OEM license for a base but I don't know what MS would say.
Nalates wrote:
Those Product Keys could be moved to new hardware and MS will authorize them for use on new hardware


Really? I don't think you are legally supposed to do this. Although XP had a very funny OEM aurgment that would allow
you to sell the OS with a piece of hardware(and it could be any hardware), if you sold the OS with a keyboard, you had the lisesne as long you as owned the keyboard.

Lastly there is a nice "half-way" point, my brother bought his computer from a company in BC and he told them the parts to use and they assembled it and shipped it. You can also select the parts from a drop-down(like the Apple site used to do, I don't know if they still do*). That way somoene else makes your computer but you can put on whatever OS you want.

* useful if you don't have the time or skills to assemble a computer yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: Still useing XP?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:02 pm 
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What's quite interesting is that in Germany it is legal to resell OEMs even without any piece of hardware. They also tend to be cheaper than non-OEM versions. The only thing that you won't have with an OEM is Microsoft support, as far as I understand it.

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 Post subject: Re: Still useing XP?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:44 pm 
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In the past I was curies what difference between OEM and none-OEM copies of Windows and did some research. For Windows 7 and Vista, you can resell the un-opened OEM packege as many times as you like. Once you open it, you can no longer resell it. You are then required by the EULA(take note that I don't say by law) to install it on a computer which it becomes "glued too". Then you may only use that computer to install the nessery drivers and any "base" software you want. Then you must run a tool to prepeir the tool for another user. You are then required to give the computer to another person. I don't think the EULA says that you must sell it. (From what I've read this changed between Windows Vista and 7, with Vista allowing you to keep the computer yourself after installing the "base" software). This has changed once again in Windows 8 and off course was very different for XP and older.

Three important points about this:

1. You may give away or resell the copy of Windows WITH the hardware(would that be the motherboard or the computer?). I don't know how reselling works with retail version of Windows but I think it's quit different. So I guess if you want to upgrade your motherboard(and the old mb is still working), the best you can do with your old copy of Windows is sell it on ebay with the motherboard.
2. The EULA may not be legally binding in every country/state/provous to make things even more confusing and twisted. :(. This is actually a good reason to get Linux, you don't have to worry about this silly stuff. :twisted:
3. This is all off of memory so I could be wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Still useing XP?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:49 pm 
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dgelessus wrote:
What's quite interesting is that in Germany it is legal to resell OEMs even without any piece of hardware. They also tend to be cheaper than non-OEM versions. The only thing that you won't have with an OEM is Microsoft support, as far as I understand it.
I also bought my computer two years ago the way Jamie described it for his brother ... I've chosen everything from a drop-down list, but additionally the OS Win7 Home Premium, and I got a real Win 7 DVD, a box even with a nice booklet and a real certificate with that key, and I got a big box for the ASUS motherboard with DVDs with all necessary video and sound drivers etc, but the OS is still an OEM software as it is written on that certificate ...

As far as I see it, I can have MS support, but also as far as I remember, in many offices and homes you can see Windows CDs and DVDs of any kind lying around for usage ... I myself once got an 'All Win' DVD made by a friend, just in case lol (those won't get support I suppose lol), which I didn't need as I always had my own, but I wanted to affirm that it seems there aren't as severe restrictions and regulations here as somewhere else ... :P

What I don't know is if it'd be even legal to sell those OEM versions lol, but why not, in a way one has bought it with the computer too, but I don't know it actually ... :)

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 Post subject: Re: Still useing XP?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:06 pm 
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My old GFX card died recently and opened a can of worms you don't want to read about. Long story short: Only the case, mouse and keyboard are what is left of my old rig. Anyway, two month ago I purchased Win7 as an OEM version (was running as it was supposed on my old board. I had no problems registering the key again when I (had to) reinstall(ed) it for the new board etc., even though I have pretty much a new computer under my desk. I also get the latest updates (honestly, MS would cut its own throat if it didn't allow any legal version to update).
I had to reinstall Win7 because the backup I made of the older system wouldn't boot. The guy in the shop had warned me about it, but nevertheless I tried (and failed). The problem might have been that I now use a different chipset (and no longer a real BIOS).

P.S.: It turned out to be a good idea to create a bootable USB to install Win7. Went smoothly and way faster than via DVD drive ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Still useing XP?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:50 pm 
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Nalates wrote:
I will point out that XP computers, OEM and otherwise - recovery partition or not, came with a Product Key. Those Product Keys could be moved to new hardware and MS will authorize them for use on new hardware. Whether or not the license dies, Win 8 Product numbers are needed at various points and are not as easy to find as they were with XP.
Yep, provided it was more than (I think) 90 days since the license was last activated, MS have tended to be fairly relaxed about reauthorizing a key on different hardware (I guess they deemed it wasn't worth the time to debate fine points and stir up bad press along the way), but it's not how the EULA is written and the difference is in clause 2a:
OEM wrote:
2. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS.
a. One Copy per Computer. The software license is permanently assigned to the computer with which the software is distributed. That computer is the “licensed computer.”

Retail wrote:
2. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS.
a. One Copy per Computer. You may install one copy of the software on one computer. That computer is the “licensed computer.”

However, your point about having a legitimate need for the keys in some cases is certainly a fair one. In most cases (with Win 8 anyway), it's supposed to be committed to the BIOS CMOS (as you noted) so the end user never even needs to know about it even if they reinstall, but I guess that doesn't always work. Belarc Advisor is free and does a good job of fishing out product keys.

The problem with the old COAs (as I've found with my wife's old laptop, is that they were inevitably stuck on the base of a laptop and got rubbed on your lap, unsurprisingly, so over time they could become worn enough to be unreadable. I ended up copying the key for her XP Pro onto a hand written sticker that I placed inside the battery compartment where it wouldn't get rubbed away.

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 Post subject: Re: Still useing XP?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:14 pm 
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Funny you should mechine rubbing off since, that's what's happening to my older laptop. The key is fine but the lable for what OS it is rubbed off. Luckly I have a recovery partion(backed up), I don't think I will need the oringal OS annways as it's Vsita. :twisted:.(I currently have XP and Linux on it).

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 Post subject: Re: Still useing XP?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:09 pm 
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Mac_Fife wrote:
OEM wrote:
2. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS.
a. One Copy per Computer. The software license is permanently assigned to the computer with which the software is distributed. That computer is the “licensed computer.”

The question arises what part is actually meant with "licensed computer"? The whole thing, the board, the CPU? :)


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