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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 3:34 pm 
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Which returns to the issue of how to make new players away of the Bots.

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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 4:23 pm 
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Quote:
Which returns to the issue of how to make new players away of the Bots.


Is that a question ?

If yes, I think this is not what we want in this topic but, instead, how to attract and keep the players in the cave. And why would you exclude new players of the bots? :roll:

But maybe I don't understood you Kath

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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 4:47 pm 
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KathAveara wrote:
Which returns to the issue of how to make new players away of the Bots.
I'm guessing you meant to say "how to make new players away aware of the Bots."

If new players only encountered a Bot that gave them information on basic things such as where they are, how to explore and link, what the KI is and how to get one, localization translators, where to locate other players and so on...that seems like a fine thing. And certainly Zandi could be considered a Bot that already performs some of those introductory tasks.

But my experience has been that many (if not most) new players these days have never experienced a MYST game before, and may have only played FPS-type games but no adventure games at all.

I feel strongly that these new players should be introduced to URU and gain familiarity via the logical paths originally intended, rather than being thrown into a hodgepodge of Bots taking them off to "magic" Ages, fan-created marker missions, etc. These are additions that have been created largely for those who have already understood the background for these newer permutations. But they can be really confusing for newcomers when those people mistake these additions for part of the path necessary to progress in the game.

Unless there are bots specifically designed only to assist new players as outlined above, I think an immediate introduction to all bots available would add more confusion than benefit.

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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 5:08 pm 
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This is a good idea Emor.
It would be possible to include in the bots commands that give detailed information on the basics of the game
For example, we could place a command "Help age". this command would give players a note explaining in which age they are and what they need to do to progress.
We could also imagine another command "Help Ki" to learn how to use the KI.
We could even imagine that such help notes are provided in the language of the player.
Anything is possible. If someone gives me the text, I am ready to put them in my bots

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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 5:21 pm 
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Player retention is a major problem for Uru and always has been. For years we have discussed the topic. But, we seldom get any forward movement.

The idea here is the often repeated mantra, “If they only knew about…” I have no doubt providing information would help. How much it would help is debatable. Is such effort providing a good return on time spent? I don’t think so. After all the attempts we have made and things we have done, we still have the same problem.

Of all the things people do in game that keep them around interaction with others is the most productive for player retention. Graphics, areas to explore, and all else pale in comparison to personal interaction with others. See: Longevity in Second Life - "Longevity in Second Life." Chun-Yuen Teng, Lada Adamic. Proceedings of ICWSM 2010.

Uru was designed as a set of puzzles for group solution. That changed by release time. That would have provided some of the necessary interactions, but in a rather forced way as opposed to the more spontaneous way we experience personal interaction in Second Life. So, the effectiveness of which is more productive - interactions or space to explore, or other factors, while debatable, seems to be in SL's favor as exemplified by SL’s 40k to 65k concurrent logins seen every day.

If one believes only new content brings in players and retains them, you have good historical evidence for believing that. But, it has long been argued that was Uru’s fatal design flaw.

Having new content only on another shard and requiring all the additional knowledge for how to get there, is a turn off. Of the 10k to 20k per day new subscribers to SL something like 80% never get past downloading the viewer, the client side software. All they have to do is download, install (no options to set - easy), and run. It is more than many are willing to do. So, getting to other shards is no small obstacle.

There currently is no good way to retain players in MOULA as it is, at least no efficient and productive way. This is the reason that some feel basic changes to Uru are needed. So, those people are working on doing that.

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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 7:57 pm 
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Uru is not SL.
If players want to only talk to each other then that is in SL they will go.
But the important difference is that URU allows you to play to several a game of adventure and not just a platform for discussion.
That is why I repeat that this is not the environment that is essential in Uru, but the adventure.
Create new puzzles to solve this is what I deal with robots because develop new age is not enough. There must be new puzzles to solve to captivate lovers of this kind of game.

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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 8:02 pm 
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Mister Magic wrote:
This is a good idea Emor.
It would be possible to include in the bots commands that give detailed information on the basics of the game
For example, we could place a command "Help age". this command would give players a note explaining in which age they are and what they need to do to progress.
We could also imagine another command "Help Ki" to learn how to use the KI.
We could even imagine that such help notes are provided in the language of the player.
Anything is possible. If someone gives me the text, I am ready to put them in my bots

I have to step in here. Spoilers. "what they need to do to progress" the idea of MOULa, and the Myst series in general is you work out what you have to do, you solve the puzzles. If a bot is going to tell you how to do it, what is point of the game?

It's the same with sites like Guild Of Greeters that simply tell you how to do it all. Spoilers. Ruins the whole point of MOULa.

I'd prefer it if a bot pointed new players to sites where they can get help, and yes I am being biased here, Guild Of Sleepers. If they don't speak English, then a site in their native language is a good idea. Please don't replace sites sites like mine, otherwise what is the point?

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Last edited by Alien on Thu May 08, 2014 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 8:21 pm 
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No, no Alien, it's not exactly what I say.
I say just that I can put in the bots, help notes to know how to use the KI or to explain what's the age they are at the moment. But surely not the solution of the puzzles!

And, of course, it's only a suggest !
If I can help with my bots why not ? But in that cases it will be necessary to have a big discussion about how they could help.

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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 9:15 pm 
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It may not have been your intention, but you were close to suggesting a bot tells players how to do everything.
"What they need to do to progress" is hard to mis-interpret, tbh.
I have nothing against bots helping new players, if done right.

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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 9:55 pm 
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Hard to mis-interpret if you think Michel is an active English-speaker... :wink:

The progression in French is somewhat different. A newbie will have to progress in order to become acustomed to the game for instance :wink:

Progresser in French means To progress or To Advance in English

I tend to think Michel used the 2nd meaning

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Last edited by Annabelle on Sat May 10, 2014 4:38 am, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 11:12 pm 
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Annabelle wrote:
Alien wrote:
It may not have been your intention, but you were close to suggesting a bot tells players how to do everything.
"What they need to do to progress" is hard to mis-interpret, tbh.
I have nothing against bots helping new players, if done right.


Hard to mis-interpret if you think Michel is an active English-speaker... :wink:

The progression in French is somewhat different. A newbie will have to progress in order to become acustomed to the game for instance :wink:

Progresser in French means To progress or To Advance in English

I tend to think Michel used the 2nd meaning

You're not doing a very good job of explaining it, and you're nit-picking a comment I made.
Oh and yes, I am well aware English is not Michel's first language, and not yours either.

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 8:18 am 
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I have no idea why the poster of the above post is so angry toward me :?

...and why the same poster posted this message right below...

[Reveal] Spoiler:
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Last edited by Annabelle on Sat May 10, 2014 4:47 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 8:39 am 
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Annabelle, please stop posting, you've turned a throwaway comment into an argument.
For the record, my French is worse than Michel's English ... ask Janeerah.
Also this thread *was* about Sam leaving MOULa but you've turned it into some whole other debate ... twice.

Please stop posting ... in this thread at least.
EDIT: Go ahead and get the last word, I won't be replying. One of us should know when to stop, and I at least do.

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 10:11 am 
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Wow. This "Sam" thread has grown quite alot.
We don't know why he is so unhappy with Moula except
he wants more ages.
Cyan was nice enough to give us a game to play for free,
but the idea they will give us more ages is a bit wishful.
Moula has changed a lot since I have began playing.
A lot of it does not appeal to me and many others,
but we don't dwell on it. How many more ages does Sam
want? One more or maybe fifty? It isn't going to happen, IMO.
I don't enjoy some of the players, etc, but I do drop by and
play a few marker games from Annabelle and a couple of others
and listen to a little music in the DMR.
Moula is okay for some, but some of us just don't "enjoy" it
like we did in the past. That is not to say we "hate" Moula,
but just that we have interests in other places.
Even though I and others have moved on, a few others will be there
till the end of time. Lol.
Moula is what it is. If you don't like it or not happy with it....then get out.
It is a free game, for goodness sake.

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 6:03 pm 
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Mister Magic wrote:
Uru is not SL.


You didn't read the study... Your response is typical of why forum discussion generally doesn't move forward. You also don't seem to know much about SL. You also don't seem to be willing to go beyond what you imagine from an uninformed place.

Your idea is to use AI robots in place of people. That may get information out, but the idea certainly does not solve the problem ID'd and solution pointed to in the study. My point is and has been for some time that more is needed than just providing information to new players. Something like 90+% of people that play Uru will move on and leave the Cavern. That should indicate to anyone something basic is wrong.


The study I referred to was made in SL because the SL servers collect a ton of varied statistical data about what people are doing. (They use the information for upgrading the system.) I quote the study because both Uru and SL have a lot in common. Not the least of which is the players/users. Studying people in any game provides additional information for all games. And both Uru and SL have player retention issues.

Since we have Uru like games inside SL and Uru duplications, I would say they are very comparable. And the behavior of people in the Uru tributes and Uru-like builds have suffered the same problems as MOULa.

All that doesn't mean everything is a 100% match. But, SL is a good game prototyping platform and means to experiment with what people like.

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