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Do you bleive in aliens
yes 49%  49%  [ 21 ]
no 7%  7%  [ 3 ]
yes but I don't think it's possible for them to have visited earth. 44%  44%  [ 19 ]
Total votes : 43
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:23 pm 
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Problem is, sending people around exploring like in Star Trek is rather unrealistic, for costs and efficiency reasons. A ‘first contact’ is likely to be not with a manned (aliened?) spacecraft, but with a probe (no, not that kind of probe). The Apollo missions were mainly a political act, NASA wasn’t even sure it was possible at the time. Only once intelligent life is detected, an actual meeting would be planned (assuming those who sent the probe will still be around).

And if they really wanted to invade us, assuming they actually had a reason to? Easy: push a few asteroids in our general direction, wait for the economies to collapse, then land and offer free, unlimited, low-latency 1 Gbit/s Internet access to everybody (never mind that other page with the “Unconditional Surrender” heading, it’s just uninteresting alien bureaucracy).

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:15 pm 
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for some reason the Twilight Zone episode :mrgreen: "To Serve Man" comes to mind, if any one remembers that one

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:10 pm 
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Karkadann wrote:
the question is how intelligent is it?

define intelligence :wink:
Karkadann wrote:
Not to mention some of the ancient stone structures ...

the costs associated with the necessary manpower are a bit steep nowadays :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:32 pm 
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tommyap wrote:
define intelligence :wink:

Quote:
A very general mental capability that, among other things, involves the ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn quickly and learn from experience. It is not merely book learning, a narrow academic skill, or test-taking smarts. Rather, it reflects a broader and deeper capability for comprehending our surroundings—"catching on," "making sense" of things, or "figuring out" what to do


tommyap wrote:
the costs associated with the necessary manpower are a bit steep nowadays :lol:


even with the man power we still may not posses the knowledge necessary to figure out how it was done with the tools that we know they had back when they where build. We can theorize how it may have been done but thats it

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:15 pm 
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Karkadann wrote:
even with the man power we still may not posses the knowledge necessary to figure out how it was done with the tools that we know they had back when they where build. We can theorize how it may have been done but thats it

You would not believe how much difficulty the average, well educated and highly intelligent, archeologist has in comprehending the most elementary building techniques, second nature to the average (usually much lower educated) stone-mason, or brick-layer even, no matter how well established the techniques themselves are. That kind of knowledge and experience is usually absent in the common public and more often than not ignored by science. Scientists and labourers speak different languages apparantly. There has been a lot of improvement in this particular area over the last couple of decades, but unfortunally in history class students still learn the nonsense concocted by scientists dating back to the 18th century and earlier, who were all upper-class, and had no clue whatsoever. And CERTAINLY no interest in listening to the common riffraff, and learn a thing or two.

The ability to UNLEARN part of their education is a trick many are sadly unable to achieve.

It has allways amazed me, that people who dayly use digital watches, lap-tops, the internet etcetera, honestly believe that the construction of a Great Pyramid or even something as ludriculously simple as a crop-circle are beyond our capacity to achieve, and MUST be constructed by aliens, angels, giants and such or need the use of special "powers".

It is still possible to build a Great-Pyramid of the Giza type (even by hand) this very day, the construction method is actually rather simple (contrary to common believe). But it would cost something in the order of magnitude equivalent to the Apollo-Project in building materials and manpower alone. Considering the various health-risks to the labourers, the insurance fee would be astronomical. It would probably still be within the doable range for the US government, Bill Gates and Carlos Slim for instance, but i doubt they would be even remotely interested in a rather boring folly on such a monumental scale.

But i do know a contractor or two who would love the chalenge, not to forget the money.
(pay, and they will build you a dolmen in your back-garden by hand, but it will cost you)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:38 pm 
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Like I said earlier

Karkadann wrote:
Some suggest ancient aliens, and yet others seem almost offended by this because it suggest that we as a species could not have figured it out on our own. The proof is out their, someplace.


I personally cant believe we could not do such things back then, and just because some have a difficult time figuring out how it was done does not mean we could not do it, although I do try and look at things from both sides. the ancient alien theory seems more like an excuse people use when they cant figure it out and assume because I cant figure it out no one else can.

off the top of my head something comes to mind if you remember Uri Geller and his spoon bending trick I had a theory involving metal fatigue but then my old welding teacher told me about Bismuth alloy and it turns out its something any one can do if you had a spoon made of of it.

Its only magic if you cant figure out how it works

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:56 pm 
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Yeah, i figured as much. By the way i exaggerated shamelesly, no boss would risk the limbs of his crew,
if there are better ways of doing it.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:16 am 
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On the other hand, you have to remember that many of these ancient structures were built by slave labor.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:53 am 
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TOOO wrote:
On the other hand, you have to remember that many of these ancient structures were built by slave labor.


The pyramids were being talked about so I assume you mean them...

I was taught in school (many years ago) that it's just a myth that the pyramids were built by slaves...

Wikipedia says:

"Although it was once believed that slaves built these monuments, a theory based on the biblical Exodus story, study of the tombs of the workmen, who oversaw construction on the pyramids, has shown they were built by a corvée of peasants drawn from across Egypt. They apparently worked while the annual Nile flood covered their fields, as well as a very large crew of specialists, including stone cutters, painters, mathematicians and priests"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Egypt

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:58 am 
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TOOO wrote:
On the other hand, you have to remember that many of these ancient structures were built by slave labor.


I had that idea too, I wasn't feeling good enough earlier this evening to write it down.

Everything is possible with slave labor, no health insurance to pay, no salary, no union, someone dies, well 10 more prisoners are waiting to "gladly" do the job!

I will keep my tongue right now ... but there might (I'm saying might :lol: ) be some buildings or some new lands being created that might (I'm still saying might :lol: ) be erected under some sort of "renewed" slavery somewhere on this big blue rock revolving around the sun... :wink:

Did I write something here? Hmm... No! :D

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:50 am 
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Ehren is right, no slaves.
Working conditions and benefits where not just good but amazing. Medical care for instance was the best
possible for the period. (which to todays standards was terrible offcourse)
The Egyptians realised that you can NOT depend on slave labour to get any job done well.
Let alone the tomb of the living-god.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:51 am 
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Back on topic

I did vote for the third option; yes and no, but with some reservations, ifs and buts.

If life can excist on Earth, which undoubtably it does, it must be at least theoretically able to exist elsewhere. The base chemicals to make up amino-acids must be common throughout the universe. Whatever combination of circumstances are needed to naturally produce these compounds, they are bound to happen all over the place, considering the immensity of it all. But there are some nagging and to some extend worrying contradictions with this straightforward and seemingly undeniable logic.
1. All life on Earth is based on these same four amino-acids. No exception has ever been found. Not a single example of three, five, six..., paired or otherwise arranged, or something else entirely. Even when it is ONLY these four amino-acids that can produce life, there is still no logical reason why an alien life-form would have even remotely similar strands of DNA. There are long strings of DNA in all my cels that are allso present in various other species. I have no issues with being related to every bug, mold and virus on Earth, but it is a bit odd. Life on Earth has proven to be incredibly resiliant and tenacious, at least the type of life we know of. Species come and go, but life itself hangs on, no matter what. So where are these other types of life? Have they ever existed?
2. If life is common in the universe you would expect that at least some meteorites would have viable microorganisms frozen beneath the surface, potentially able to colonize/infect our world. With the very large number of annual hits, multiplied by the time there has been life on Earth, an occurrence of that kind should have happened with some regularity, or so it would seem. But there is no actual proof or even circumstantial evidence it has ever happened. You could easily ignore 2. for a number of reasons if it wasn't for 1..
3. The same can be said for alien visitors. The moment any alien vessel openes any port/lid/valve etcetera anywhere within our atmosphere, it will introduce a very large and varied host of alien microorganisms right there and than, no matter how carefull they are to prevent it. Apparantly it has not happened even once (let's ignore for a moment theories of a single event starting it all) in over a billion years (1. again). This third point is by no means problematic. If Einstein was right, and let's for a moment asume he was, long-distance space-travel will never be a realistic option to us, or anyone else. And considering point 1. and 2., any alien life that does exist could be very, very far away. At least it is fairly certain that no comparable technology exists within a radius of a hundred lightyears or so, for we would have found them by now, and they would have found us. You can not stop a radio signal send out decades ago traveling through space, but you can receive it, wherever it passes. We have not received anything yet, while our radio-bubble continues to expand. Nothing pointing to anything but natural phenomena at least. On the other hand, there is no requirement for aliens to develop any kind of comparable technology, or logic, or intelligence that WE would recognize as such, anyway.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:24 pm 
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1. Life on Earth is based on 5 nucleobases, RNA replaces thymine with uracil. There are also derivatives (like hypoxanthine and xanthine), though they are not used in DNA coding. As to why every DNA is based on ATGC, I suppose the ‘primordial soup’ contained many more combinations, but natural selection (over a very long time) weeded out the less efficient/robust alternatives.

2. There are indications that a few meteorites did bear traces of extraterrestrial DNA. It’s difficult to completely avoid contamination on a rock that could land anywhere, and we just don’t have that many samples.

3. Radio signals degrade with the square of distance, our radio bubble is unlikely to be bigger that a few light-years. As for visitors, it gets even worse, as according to Relativity we can’t even share a time reference with them, if they’re distant enough. Or maybe they’re just not inclined to contact a planet of what they might regard as savages.

But yeah, if Visitors have landed on Earth, they must have done it very very discretely.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:23 pm 
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I should have used the term nucleotides, but i did not check, appologies.

A radio signal would get very weak, yes but a modulated signal would stand out like a checkered zebra.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:38 pm 
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Yeah, and it should also be repeated over an adequate period of time. The best candidate from SETI is the Wow! signal, but since it was received only once, who knows what that really was...

On a tangent, I’ve just remembered something interesting I’ve read about the color of plants under different stars (under a red dwarf, the most common type, they might be black).

On an another tangent, don’t forget next year we’re going to have close-by images of Pluto!

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