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 Post subject: Re: Keep it in Game
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:07 pm
Posts: 1268
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The other day I was in my Hood with another guy; a third one was jumping around the First Journey Ages, so we were using the Buddies channel. To someone linking in the Hood, we would have looked like zombie avatars, while actually we were typing a lot.
I say hi to those who link in, but I won’t force a conversation on them if they’re just passing by (and I wasn’t typing in English, anyway).

Besides, this behavior is present in every other MMOG, so once again no, nobody is going to run away because of <yet another arbitrary factor>. MOULa is not popular because it’s a niche MMOG without the (literal and metaphorical) ‘big guns’ of other games (but quite a few others).

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 Post subject: Re: Keep it in Game
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:42 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:05 pm
Posts: 4197
Location: 56°2'26", -3°20'28"
I think there's a case of "horses for courses" here.

The in-game voice chat was probably never conceived as a "broadcast" tool and was likely meant to emulate "real" conversational use hence the limitation on the "range" that the speaker can be heard over (unless you're in the hood "Community Room"). In fact, it can be downright annoying if (as has happened on occasion) someone hogs the voice chat by playing music over it. It's a bit awkward since you need to hold down the Tab key to activate it, and not everyone uses headsets anyway.

The KI text chat has it's problems too, as we all know, but because you've got options for PM chat and buddy chat, people can get engrossed in private conversations (just like in RL) and seemingly ignore everyone that's not part of that conversation. It may be a little rude, but it's also rather "normal" in a way, but that leads to the "zombie avatars" as others have already noted.

I tend to use the KI text chat when I'm in the game. The exception is where the conversation includes someone who isn't in-game at the same time for some reason, when I'll use Skype. But it's easy to get confused when you've got more than one chat interface on the go at the same time!

As a community, we have abroad range of people, ages and abilities here: I know of some people/groups who tend to use TeamSpeak or similar in preference to the text chat because they have difficulty typing (e.g. arthritis, palsy, etc.), and you have to acknowledge their different needs.

When it comes to "broadcasts" (and we're generally talking about music here) then external streaming is really the only way to do it. That's fine as it's generally a "one to many", one directional kind of flow, and doesn't interfere with people continuing to chat using the in-game systems. Apart from anything else it 1) keeps load off the Cyan servers and 2) prevents Cyan from being implicated if the broadcast material is "unlicensed".

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 Post subject: Re: Keep it in Game
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:47 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:01 am
Posts: 219
Location: 4mile dwn1200milesENE 1mile up
Actually I understand where angelmyst is coming from,especially for events. What is needed is for all those broadcasters to do is agree on 1 off site broadcasting program. Ustream was good for quality but you needed an adblocker for it. Shoutcast seems good but costly?? Skype I don't use so have no comment. TeamSpeak can be a hassle to set up and get in due maybe needing passwords. AlanD has one that seems good (think Ihave used it before ). DMR at one time went to WMR website which worked well, but I don't know if it is still active.
BUT any way my point is to standardize to 1 off site broadcasting for general events for music and interviews. Post and sticky it in events, and use just that 1
The next hurdle is to get every one using the same player(s) vlc, winamp, itunes..what ever.
If we could agree on using just 1 off site program I think it would help alot getiing people connected .
It was said before in game chat is poor, it was designed just for close proximity voice chat and that is all it will ever be. Overstepping conversations with in game voice is horrendous and I tend not to use it for that reason.
Any other thoughts???

Read planetary's event listing yo might see what mean :D

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 Post subject: Re: Keep it in Game
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:06 am
Posts: 626
Location: UK: Now with added Magic
Internet radio technology is pretty well established, and is the preferred method for all the MOUL-broadcasters I've heard or worked with. There are free servers such as Listen-2-my-radio that I have used to broadcast a stream to cavern companions, - the radio station lets me send my mixed audio output to be broadcast over a single URL, which has a nice easily rememebered format - in my case alandj.listen2myradio.com. The audience just has to put that URL into their music player of choice - I've tested it with Winamp,VLC player and Windows Media Player before now.

Radio Free D'ni has its own server and gives you a choice of ways to connect. First off, you can put a URL into your music player - the RFD main stream is http://aegura.harriman4.com:8000/stream.mp3, and on the occasions that I stream on my own I have http://aegura.harriman4.com:8016/alandj.mp3 .

You can also connect to a web page and choose a method of listening if you don't have a music player installed, or have one that doesn't respond well to the usual URL. For Radio Free D'ni that is http://aegura.harriman4.com/8000.php . The page gives you two stream options plus an integrated media player which lets you listen in your browser.

As we can't know what each of our audience members has on hand to play music with, there is never going to be a simple answer to this. I think Edison Rex's approach with the Aegura server that we use for Radio Free D'ni has much to recommend it, allowing most people to listen whatever their computer skill level or hardware and software setup.

In an ideal world there would be a single service analogous to Listen2myradio but dedicated to MOUL audiences and their friends. However this would require Cyan or a trusted outsource to administer it, and I don't see that happening soon.

The other issue is that you have to run a separate music player to listen to the stream - there is no way to use in-game chat (which is not suitable in any case) or anything integrated into the MOUL client. Fortunately, in these heady days of technological progress, most of us can run two programs at once without crashing. It does mean that in-game voice chat is difficult to use at the same time as listening to the broadcast, but to be honest I find it better to shut one off and pay attention to the other :) The text chat is still available for talking to the avatars around us.

It's interesting that you should mention Teamspeak: both Radio Free D'ni and the DMR have used Teamspeak as a backchannel for the presenters to feed their commentary into, and to talk while the music is playing - a vital tool to make sure all goes smoothly. I've never thought of using Teamspeak as a primary broadcast medium.

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 Post subject: Re: Keep it in Game
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:16 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:57 am
Posts: 1332
AlanD wrote:
I've never thought of using Teamspeak as a primary broadcast medium.


Which is a good thing, I think. Shoutcast is better in all respects. We used Teamspeak in the Until Uru period because it was the best available technology. I started hearing rumors of Shoutcast in 2006, I think, although I believe it had been invented some years before. The first reports I got about it were garbled.

Ashtar, bless his heart, set up a Shoutcast server and asked Donahoo and me to test it, and let him know what we thought. After the initial set-up glitches--there's always something--it was an ear-opening experience.

Before Shoutcast, I had to plan shows with the limited bandwidth of Teamspeak in mind. Nothing subtle would survive. Now, with Shoutcast, even Ralph Vaughan Williams' quiet pieces would come across and be heard well. It was a revolution.

The only real problem with Shoutcast comes for anyone listening on dial-up. Even a 56k stream can choke a modem and make people crash out. Fortunately, most people are on a high speed connection.

As for a single source mentioned by DaVinci, there are techniques and technologies to make this work. The technique is to have an administrator set up the channel and coordinate everyone using it, as Dichromus did for the 30-hour Day of Dancing a few years back. It's a huge hassle, though, which is most of the reason why no one has done it again.

The technology would borrow from Second Life, where DJ control systems are common. They range from simple "radio tuners" to complete DJ show management boards. I don't know how SL makes this work, but each parcel has a sound control panel in which you can enter the URL for the stream. The neat part is that anyone who walks onto the parcel automatically connects to the stream, through the Second Life viewer, if they turn on music. I don't know if it would be possible to incorporate a similar function into some version of MOUL.

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