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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 9:04 pm 
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So I just checked on an upcoming online game I'd been following today, and lo and behold, they have a website!

https://www.revivalgame.com/

I read it and and thought...

FINALLY THE MMO I’VE BEEN WAITING FOR!

I haven’t been this excited about an online game since MUDPIE in 2001!

Read the mission statement and each feature section. This is what URU should be in an ideal world, or at least how I initially envisioned it.

If Cyan ever thinks about rebooting Uru post-Obduction in any way or form (even if its allowing fans or another company to make it), I will encourage them to take influence from these guys.

The ideas presented in Revival are basically a much more developed version of Cyan’s Uru concept before Ubi ruined everything.

I’m so hyped. I’m getting flashbacks to 2001/2002 while navigating their site. I just so happen to be playing the complete Uru soundtrack right now by chance.

When I first read about MUDPIE, I envisioned a living breathing world in the D’ni Empire where you, the player, could rise through the guild ranks, explore dozens of ages, form and rebuild a virtual civilization with a real economy that had consequences to your actions all while solving puzzles. You could eventually become king in my mind.

Of course this was all my imagination running wild. Uru was great at the time (from what I've read about Prologue since I missed it) but got cancelled. When it came back it in 2007 was a shell of its potential self due to budget issues and Cyan's limited staff.

Revival is where my vision of Uru comes true.

There is a dynamic economy, guilds and status, the ability to affect the world and history of the civilization, the ability for real adventure through trading, live storytelling by the devs as Dungeon Masters, and finally the ability to become king and rule requiring actual effort with consequences. This is what I’m talking about! A true fantasy Metaverse.

All I want now is ALL that, but set in the D’ni cavern!


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 9:52 pm 
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Well, it's an ambitious plan. Reminds me more of Eve Online than of Uru, though.

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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 10:46 pm 
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Somewhat realistic, in that I could shell out enough money to live in a tenement. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 10:59 pm 
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Its a kind of a mix of both, but what I like is the evolving story and live storytelling the most. Unlike Eve, I see there being more roleplay possibilities in rising through society. The king actually has to be smart and know how to rule considering the complexity of the universe.

Its also not a combat-only game, as the devs want to emphasize every part of living in the in-game universe, which is different from Eve. I like that there seems to be more direct developer written content than Eve, with a lot focus on the lore and game world.

In fact if there was a way fans could get together and start a team to completely rebuild Uru while taking influence from this and using the latest technology, I'd be down for that.

SANDGAME was very much in the same vein as what I'm envisioning. I wonder if its still being worked on?

I've always liked the idea of in game economies and the rewards/consequences that could come of them. Its part of building truly immersive virtual societies. I would love to login to the cavern each night and see what's new in the political arena with the guilds and the D'ni people, hang out in my D'ni house, put on a D'ni robe and visit colleagues at the Guild Hall. The point I'm making is that any way I can make the experience feel much less "gamey" and more like an alternate reality or existence is what I'm looking for. I think Cyan went down that way but due to limitations and certain decisions it never quite got there.

I think one of the main problems in Uru was a lack of repeatable gameplay and sense of ownership in the world. Yes you have your Relto but the ages are really big open world theme parks that take you through the story. What I think Uru needs is "lived in" content - i.e things you can do/see that aren't necessarily leading you to endgame. Heek is a good example of this. So is the Wall. Imagine owning a D'ni shop that sold D'ni luxury items to others, the player would gain a certain sense of ownership with this game mechanic and would create a much stronger sense of IC immersion. The environments shouldn't feel like they're meant to be played, but rather inhabited and experienced.

Another example I've had since I was a young teen was the ability to become one of a small group of KI administrators whose job it was to sell KI upgrades to explorers as well as monitor the GZ and the tech/lattice across the city. My vision was that this group would occupy a central hall where players could come pick up their KIs. This group could also act as greeters, introducing new players to the city while distributing KIs via game mechanic. In this sense, the players in this interaction are given ownership over a part of the experience because, rather than playing content that is meant to lead us somewhere as in most Myst games, the content is the action of being a functional part in a large, complex universe, like in real life...except its fantasy which lends to the immersion factor.


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 11:11 pm 
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Sorry, I'm just not seeing it. This is nothing like Uru, or what Cyan envisioned for the game. This is more like an amped up version of World of Warcraft, with more detailed skills, economics and politics.

I don't play Uru for a combat system, or to be a merchant prince, or to mess with other people. I play it because at its heart, it's a puzzle-solving game with archeology at its core. The part that keeps it fresh long after it died as a supported game is that so much was seeded into it to discover that we are still finding out new things even after all this time.

Revival sounds like it should be a fun game for all the many people who like hack and slash games, and no doubt will be a new level in the genre. It's not Uru, and I don't see that it has any problem solving or discovery being anywhere near the same level of focus. Plus, there are many who love Uru and Myst games in general because they don't want to play shooters or hack and slash.

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 12:23 am 
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It seems your focusing too much on the surface aspect of hack n' slash rather than the core mechanics behind the game. I implore you to look past the basic gothic theme of the game and understand the greater concept of the living breathing world that both games champion.

World of Warcraft is the exact OPPOSITE of a game like Revival. WoW is a static, linear, cartoony combat heavy themepark MMO that's meant to get you to grind your way to the top like an addict while Revival is an open world sandbox, ever-changing, growing, player-driven experience where the devs act as dungeon masters and create live story events much like the Bahro killing Wheely or the DRC visits. Apart from the combat, this is much more Uru/Eve than WoW.

In fact, combat isn't the only thing that's important in Revival as the devs made clear in their mission. Unlike WoW or ESO, SWTOR, etc, combat is not the primary focus to the gameplay, but one of many. You can do trading, magic, etc.

I think the core concept of immersion and complex systems that facilitate immersion and truly living in the world is what I'd like to see in Uru. Combat is kind of an obvious difference at this point purely based on the type of game Myst has historically been which is puzzle driven.

I'd love to see true refined systems that create dynamic societies in game between players and characters. I'm drooling at the thought of all the political intrigue that could come with discovering Releeshahn and dealing with the Bahro threat. In many ways, Cyan was revving up for this in 2008 when the guilds were first announced. You would have had this cluster&%$$ of factions between the DRC with their own agenda, the D'ni survivors, the explorer-driven Guild system with the Writers and Maintainers butting heads, Yeesha and the good bahro/bad bahro.

If they added things like player-driven economy and in-cavern housing with the ability to restore the city, own equipment and luxuries, and gain status in the cavern through actions (like being a well known Writer like Tweek for instance), I think would make for a much more "lived in" world full of immersion.

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoeR_LxUYQk <--- Check this out for a chill dev interview.


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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 8:10 am 
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I agree with Yali here; while the story and specific gameplay of something like Revival wouldn't transfer very well to Uru, its persistent world, focusing on the actions of the players as a storytelling mechanic, and high degree of flexibility in character abilities is exactly what I'd like to see in the cavern. Imagine a revival (oops) of the 18+1 guilds in which players can actively survey the fallen city, repair and activate its mining machines, or research combinations of chemicals and reactions to create a link-worthy ink or paper! A guild of player Maintainers who keep the peace and inspect new ages, a guild of Writers who use in-game tools or an out-of-game editor to link (or, properly, create) to new ages, a guild of Bookmakers and Inkmakers to supply the materials developed by the Chemists or found by the Surveyors! The excitement over the first successful player-made Descriptive Book is palpable even now. Such applications of this modern trend of pattern-breaking mmorpgs are endless and thrilling in a setting such as D'ni. My dream, since day one, is to see the cavern as a living city again, to buy my own little apartment with a view of the lake, and to interact with and influence the events around me. Ignore the combat and odd stigma of letting any foreign ideas taint the purity of Uru, and instead imagine what could be done with the tools available today, which are lightyears ahead of those from 2004. I want to walk through the desert, rest within the Cleft, and follow Aitrus' map through the tunnels. I want to row a small boat across the faintly glowing waters of the lake. And most of all, I want to see the City of 10,000 Worlds live again.

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 3:08 pm 
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Quote:
while Revival is an open world sandbox, ever-changing, growing, player-driven experience


Well, the developers say that's what they *want* it to be. It might fail. You had high hopes for Uru, and Uru failed, so mind your expectations this time round. :/

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 5:48 pm 
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If Uru truly failed their would be no shards legal or otherwise and this site would not exist, perhaps Uru just took an alternate path to the one Cyan had originally intended

Any good scientist will tell you "the only time one can truly fail is if one does not learn from ones mistake".

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 6:02 pm 
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Yali wrote:
WoW is a static, linear, cartoony combat heavy themepark MMO that's meant to get you to grind your way to the top like an addict while Revival is an open world sandbox, ever-changing, growing, player-driven experience where the devs act as dungeon masters and create live story events much like the Bahro killing Wheely or the DRC visits.

On the other hand, games like WoW encourage teamwork more than Uru ever did. DIRT is planned to include collaborative activities, by the way.

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:13 pm 
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Kohdi wrote:
I agree with Yali here; while the story and specific gameplay of something like Revival wouldn't transfer very well to Uru, its persistent world, focusing on the actions of the players as a storytelling mechanic, and high degree of flexibility in character abilities is exactly what I'd like to see in the cavern. Imagine a revival (oops) of the 18+1 guilds in which players can actively survey the fallen city, repair and activate its mining machines, or research combinations of chemicals and reactions to create a link-worthy ink or paper! A guild of player Maintainers who keep the peace and inspect new ages, a guild of Writers who use in-game tools or an out-of-game editor to link (or, properly, create) to new ages, a guild of Bookmakers and Inkmakers to supply the materials developed by the Chemists or found by the Surveyors! The excitement over the first successful player-made Descriptive Book is palpable even now. Such applications of this modern trend of pattern-breaking mmorpgs are endless and thrilling in a setting such as D'ni. My dream, since day one, is to see the cavern as a living city again, to buy my own little apartment with a view of the lake, and to interact with and influence the events around me. Ignore the combat and odd stigma of letting any foreign ideas taint the purity of Uru, and instead imagine what could be done with the tools available today, which are lightyears ahead of those from 2004. I want to walk through the desert, rest within the Cleft, and follow Aitrus' map through the tunnels. I want to row a small boat across the faintly glowing waters of the lake. And most of all, I want to see the City of 10,000 Worlds live again.


Yes! This is exactly what I envisioned. As the city is further restored, lights and decor like in the Tokotah concept piece would come back to the city in glorious elegance.

Like a kind of alternate reality, players would take on tasks through interconnected systems like the gears of a watch analogy the Revival devs use. Like in my 12 year old vision of Mudpie, Greeters could get a large hall where they would hand out KIs and introduce people to the city, as well as work with Maintainers in maintaining the lattice and GZ while providing KI upgrades.

Unreal 4 is simply phenomenal. After seeing Blake Bjerke's Katha Island environment I'm drooling at the thought of D'ni in unreal 4.

Image

Cyan's patented art direction is always head and shoulders above the norm in fantasy gaming, always opting for the most original designs. No elves or spikey swords, the Myst aeshetic is so varied and refined. Its just dying to be used in Unreal Engine. I think Uru's premise is so original that given the right technology and game design it could outdo the competition simply based on quality of lore and setting IMO.


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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 8:26 am 
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The problem with grand visions is that anybody can come up with one; actually crafting something is what really counts (RoonSehv, for example). If you want your vision of Uru so bad, then the next question you should be asking youself is: what are you personally doing to make it happen?

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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 5:30 pm 
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Personally I'd be willing to form a collective with fans willing to reboot Uru. The problem is in this community there is always a divide on how to do things. Right now you have DIRT and Intangibles cranking away new content in Plasma who I've helped in doing some graphic design work and concepts for, and on the other hand you have people like Alahmnat and his SANDGAME blog or Nalates championing Unreal.

The problem essentially lies with sharing a common vision. Personally I'm hyped to see new content for Uru done in plasma, but I'm quite taken with the overhaul concept of sandgame.

I think Uru's art direction and lore is too good to keep hidden from the public and with the advent of sandbox based mmos rising in popularity, a game like Uru would be very much in demand, potentially more so if you factor in the rich art and lore of D'ni which in my mind is head and shoulders above the more typical medieval-fantasy fare.

When MOUL was released in 2007 this wasn't the case. The market is completely different now and we've reached the end of the WoW clone cycle. Games like Revival are what a lot of gamers are calling out for. Uru is in many ways more suited to the MMO landscape today than it was in 2003 or ever before.

Myself I do writing and graphic design. I like making proof of concept type material to get a feel for a project. I also do modelling and texture art. I've never attempted to persuade the community to work on a common vision and goal because I feel my people skills aren't what they could be, but I know a lot about the market and what works and what doesn't work. Uru is just one of those games that had the misfortune of being released in the wrong place at the wrong time under tense circumstances (i.e the initial shut down and Cyan's poor financial state post-2004). The thing is, despite all this, the core ideas are good and its why I keep coming back here.

In my mind the game needs a reboot, at least structurally and graphically. The issue at hand is how to organize a team like Starry Expanse did who share a common vision when the community is so divided about the game. The other factor is that I see two kinds of Uru players from my experience of having been here for over a decade: people who are content with the old ways and like hanging out in Uru because of the in-game community and people who are eager and hungry to see Uru and Myst grow and adapt to the present market while avoiding past pitfalls. My experience has show me that a lot of the people in the more laid back crowd are less interested in gaming as a whole or video game culture whereas myself and those who partake in content development whether here in the Intangibles/DIRT threads or on the Guild of Writers website are more than often avid gamers and see Uru in the broader context of video game culture and what, at its core, it has to offer to gamers.

I guess what I'm saying is, of course I want to personally build a better Uru. I've been trying for a while now to figure out how to do it, but this requires manpower, Cyan themselves, and most importantly cooperation. I have little experience leading people but I do know what the game needs. If others see eye-to-eye with me or if you've ever said to yourself "yeah this makes sense" or "I'd love to see Uru change for the better" than tell me so I don't feel like a raving lunatic. Then we'll see if cooperation and organization is possible and if people can exchange ideas freely and unemotionally as what could and can be done without fear of negative rebuttals. The only reason why I haven't tried to lead people to be on a common page is because of the tension present in the MOULa community that often stifles pure creative talk and the fact that I'm not sure if I would know how to do it..


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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 6:49 pm 
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Don't get your hopes up too much. Many people already know that Uru can look great when ported into another engine and proofs-of-concept have shown that it can be done relatively easily and the kind of results that are possible (I'm not suggesting it's "easy", more that it's not the total horror story that some might imagine it to be).
[Reveal] Spoiler: Gahreesen example
Image

The problem really is that, at least up to this point, Cyan has been quite emphatic that Uru content will only ever be in Plasma - porting to another engine (beyond a POC) is out of the question. So you'd have to scratch build everything, no porting of textures, models, etc., and that implies many man years of effort.

Why Cyan takes that view, I'm not sure. I guess maybe they see that Plasma is what it is because of Uru and vice-versa so the two are immutably linked. I don't know. At any rate, without Cyan's buy-in, a grand vision will remain only a vision.

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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2015 7:43 pm 
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That's interesting you say that because there was a post on the Cyan forums earlier this year when UE4 went free where Ryan Warzecha basically said "Uru in Unreal 4! :D" and someone replied with "Nalates will have a field day".

Cyan's stance may change post-Obduction. Its possible Ryan is implying that we all learn Unreal since it went free and build Uru environments for a potential unknown future.


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