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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:29 am 
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Well, I do think all of the UU Shard admins and shard regulars do need a huge amount of recognition for keeping the torch burning. Uru Live wouldn't be here without Until Uru and that community's work.

However, I think there is a factor here that many people forget: intellectual property law in the US is a nasty slippery slope.

It's been successfully argued that a laxity in defending one's intellectual property means a de facto decision to release those rights. This is part of why a lot of companies are very aggressive about their copyrights and intellectual properties - if they don't, then that can be turned against them.

Having UU run along side of Uru Live could be argued to mean that Cyan isn't defending its intellectual property, and thus the rights to that IP could be taken from them. Not saying that people would, but all it takes is one person who feels they own part of Uru and argue that they have put more effort into that part than Cyan and you have a viable court case.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:55 am 
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Well it does look like some people can keep their word.

Because we were told that there were no plans to shut down UU and at least they have come clean and told us they are now planning to shut it down. So now there are plans.

I am disapointed. I want to rant and scream and swear torrents of abuse but whats the point.

I feel sorry for those who will be left without options, those on dialup and in countries that will be unsupported.

I does rather feel like a kick in the teeth directed by an overzealous monopoly grabbing corporation. I am not saying it is just that it feels that way.

I was considering selling family members into slavery to support a Game Tap account to play live.

We were allways treated fairly by the guys at Cyan and this smells of big corporation heavy handedness.

It feels dishonest to me but I can't say I am too supprised. I think it must just be my cynical side.

It's a plug that doesn't need pulling so why give un-nessessary pain, the private shards were not doing any harm.

PS. If you feel you need to give me a hard time over this please keep it to a PM I just cannot be bothered with a public slagging match.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:16 am 
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JKla wrote:
Because we were told that there were no plans to shut down UU and at least they have come clean and told us they are now planning to shut it down.


Who at Cyan told you "there were no plans to shut down UU?"

What did they say, where did they say it, when did they say it, and to whom did they say it?

You're essentially charging Cyan with saying one thing and doing another.

Please provide proof, or retract your statement.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:28 am 
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Perhaps one of the CCN people who were at Mysterium has audio of Rand's reply to a question about the UU shards... because I seem to recall the answer being equivilant to "we'll see".

I haven't seen any indication, anywhere, from Cyan that UU would continue in perpetuity regardless of the state of Uru Live. If anything, I remember very vividly the initial UU information saying they committed to having it running until April of that year, after that, all bets were off.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:34 am 
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tkwiggins wrote:
JKla wrote:
Because we were told that there were no plans to shut down UU and at least they have come clean and told us they are now planning to shut it down.


Who at Cyan told you "there were no plans to shut down UU?"

What did they say, where did they say it, when did they say it, and to whom did they say it?

You're essentially charging Cyan with saying one thing and doing another.

Please provide proof, or retract your statement.


tk, I think you took what he said by how it appears he meant it.. Not by what he said?

I believe Cyan did say that they had no plans to shut down UU. But, as with anything, plans can change, and they did. I am sure they spent several weeks trying to figure out how to avoid it, but it was unavoidable.

The hardware is needed for Uru Live, it saves them from a huge additional investment while trying to get this baby back on its feet.

JKla: Big hungry behemoths still have to feed their kids ;)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:43 am 
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Shadowcats wrote:
A community divided again is what I see :(

I'm not going to tell anyone that they are wrong to think or feel differently than I do, but I have as much of a right to express my opinion as anybody else, so I shall. And to anyone reading this, please do not take these comments as if I'm talking directly to you. I'm not. I'm just offering my perspective on this situation.

As an example, I really don't understand Shadowcats' comment above, or similar sentiments expressed by others.

If part of the community is in Uru Live, and part of the community is in Until Uru, then that is a divided community. Shutting down Until Uru does not make the community any more divided than it already is. Rather, it provides incentive to bring everyone together in one place.

It saddens me to see people mourn the passing of Until Uru, rather than celebrating the birth of Uru Live. I personally believe that any unhappiness others may feel about the closure of Until Uru pales in comparison to the feeling I had in my stomach on February 9, 2003. Back then, when Uru Live shut down the first time there was no service replacing it. Now, with the end Until Uru, we are heralding a return of the service that, when it originally died, brought myself and many other explorers to tears. I'm not saying it is wrong to feel bad about losing Until Uru. But I want to cast it into perspective against what I feel is more important.

To those who are not in one of the 14 countries at start, I am sorry. I say this with seriousness and deepest concern in my heart. So please understand my sympathy when I suggest: Show just a little more patience. Many of us have been patient for 3 years. But this situation is not outside of your control. How about talking to fellow explorers about how you might gently bend the rules? It can be done. It has already been done. Determined people don't stand around and complain; they improvise. And... encourage friends to petition GameTap for their service. Apply your voice, and exert your effort, where it can do the most good.

To those who cannot stay with us because you're on a connection that is too slow, you also have my sympathies... but I must also point out, of the adults among you, you are ultimately in control of whether or not you have broadband access. If you have chosen the comfortable countryside, far from the lights of the city (and fiber roll-out)... then that demonstrates your priorities. We cannot always have everything we desire. You have already weighed the benefits and disadvantages of living in a rural area when you chose to settle there. I recommend that you remind yourself of the positive reasons you chose to live where you do.

To those of you who claim that you lack the finances to join Uru Live... I will point out that, as with those who have chosen to live where there is no broadband, only you (and no-one else) are ultimately in control of that situation. The choices you make are the ones you must live with.

There are likely exceptions to the points I have made above. But that does not change my faith that for good or bad, each person controls his or her own destiny. Life is not equally fair to every person... but we are charged with the responsibility and the privilege to make the most of what we are given. Embrace life as fully as you are able and cherish it.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:53 am 
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Marten wrote:
Shadowcats wrote:
A community divided again is what I see :(

I'm not going to tell anyone that they are wrong to think or feel differently than I do, but I have as much of a right to express my opinion as anybody else, so I shall. And to anyone reading this, please do not take these comments as if I'm talking directly to you. I'm not. I'm just offering my perspective on this situation.

As an example, I really don't understand Shadowcats' comment above, or similar sentiments expressed by others.

If part of the community is in Uru Live, and part of the community is in Until Uru, then that is a divided community. Shutting down Until Uru does not make the community any more divided than it already is. Rather, it provides incentive to bring everyone together in one place.

It saddens me to see people mourn the passing of Until Uru, rather than celebrating the birth of Uru Live. I personally believe that any unhappiness others may feel about the closure of Until Uru pales in comparison to the feeling I had in my stomach on February 9, 2003. Back then, when Uru Live shut down the first time there was no service replacing it. Now, with the end Until Uru, we are heralding a return of the service that, when it originally died, brought myself and many other explorers to tears. I'm not saying it is wrong to feel bad about losing Until Uru. But I want to cast it into perspective against what I feel is more important.

To those who are not in one of the 14 countries at start, I am sorry. I say this with seriousness and deepest concern in my heart. So please understand my sympathy when I suggest: Show just a little more patience. Many of us have been patient for 3 years. But this situation is not outside of your control. How about talking to fellow explorers about how you might gently bend the rules? It can be done. It has already been done. Determined people don't stand around and complain; they improvise. And... encourage friends to petition GameTap for their service. Apply your voice, and exert your effort, where it can do the most good.

To those who cannot stay with us because you're on a connection that is too slow, you also have my sympathies... but I must also point out, of the adults among you, you are ultimately in control of whether or not you have broadband access. If you have chosen the comfortable countryside, far from the lights of the city (and fiber roll-out)... then that demonstrates your priorities. We cannot always have everything we desire. You have already weighed the benefits and disadvantages of living in a rural area when you chose to settle there. I recommend that you remind yourself of the positive reasons you chose to live where you do.

To those of you who claim that you lack the finances to join Uru Live... I will point out that, as with those who have chosen to live where there is no broadband, only you (and no-one else) are ultimately in control of that situation. The choices you make are the ones you must live with.

There are likely exceptions to the points I have made above. But that does not change my faith that for good or bad, each person controls his or her own destiny. Life is not equally fair to every person... but we are charged with the responsibility and the privilege to make the most of what we are given. Embrace life as fully as you are able and cherish it.


Bravo! Good post.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:15 am 
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I don't know about the rest of the shards but I bet they have a member or two that can not get into live either. Are you going to walk away from those members without a backward glance or do you care about them at all?


I know Slackers still gets good mileage. We average around 9 people a night, sometimes we get even more. We are mostly there for people who can't afford GameTap or are on Dialup. Doesn't seem right to leave people out in the cold when we've had a resolve for these people. I don't see how Until Uru can even be compared to Live. Killing it off will only give off bad vibes IMHO. Especially from the people who currently have nowhere to turn to.

I really thought Live and UU could co exist. I supported both of them and loved them both just the same. This just doesn't make much sense to me at all.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:21 am 
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Marten wrote:
It saddens me to see people mourn the passing of Until Uru, rather than celebrating the birth of Uru Live. I personally believe that any unhappiness others may feel about the closure of Until Uru pales in comparison to the feeling I had in my stomach on February 9, 2003. Back then, when Uru Live shut down the first time there was no service replacing it.


I got a credit card this week. I just squeaked by. I wasn't sure i'd get it. If i wasn't able to, i would be out. I would be ..... let's not go there.

It's easy to celebrate Live when one can get on it. But when one can't for whatever reason...... those people that can't get in are in the same boat you were on February 9, 2003. They have ~no~ replacement service. They only have a death, of sorts. We have a replacement. A new beginning, or transition. I can relate to those saddened: i wasn't sure if i'd be able to get in. I got the money for a year of GT - put aside in my bank account. But GT takes only CCs, no PayPal. They have assured us they will work on ways for other-than-CC-payments...... when? When will it happen? When you see ("you" as in "anyone") your only way to get any form of Uru multi-player die..... it's too late for "when". If it's after the 5th.... it's too late. And then you look for something to keep you busy....

I just hope those in such a predicament just don't drift off, and find another game in the meantime, and ultimately get 'hooked' on that, and forget Uru. Because let's face it: there are many good games out there to get people's attention.......

The loss of UU does sadden me for another reason, to: Where can you go to a place, and see a nice Ae'gura sunset? Only on a shard with an admin that will poke with the colour schemes. Slackers comes to mind.... Where can you jump 50ft in the air up and up and up to examine the Guild Hall closer? I did Monday on Tapestry, but almost any shard will do. This is all gone. I feel fortunate that i was able to squeak by for my credit card......

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Last edited by Nine-O-Nine on Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:26 am 
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I am very upset to hear that UU will shut down before the problems preventing people from getting into Live are dealt with. I know quite a few people who can't get into Live including a number of The Meeting Place members. I really think Cyan needs to think this through. What is the harm in leaving a few shards available until the problems are worked out?

Marten, I find your attitude elitist and condescending. Some people are in areas where only dial-up is available. Some people are in countries where Live/GameTap is not available. Are you suggesting they up and move? Others, can't afford the cost to change over from dial-up and some just can't afford GameTap's monthly fees. Where do you get off telling people that's their fault and to deal with it? Say that to a person in a wheel chair living on a small disability pension. We have a lot more people in that situation than you know. Are you going to tell them to get out of their wheelchairs? Did you know we have a couple of members who are completely paralysed and play using a stick in their mouth on a special computer? One of them is on dial-up and is lucky to have that. Not everyone else is as lucky as you, Marten, to have such an easy life with so many choices.

Cyan, I really hope you don't cut these people off from their friends, and in many cases, their families. We thought you cared about all of us, not just some of us.

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Last edited by Soosi on Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:27 am 
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I posted this on UO, but hope you'll indulge me here...

Until Uru is where I met everyone. It's where I got to 'ride the bike (eventually) without training wheels'...and I can't thank everyone enough who was an admin in ALL those shards or who I met while in there.

I will miss the crazy admins tricks...especially the great gift of the Christmas Ki !!!!! The crazy 'trips' out to the arch and back....the walking through walls...the views that normally we would never be able to see...the attacks of the GIANT cones.....the LGC club meetings with mind blowing goodies...(thanks Slackers! for all the COLOURS!)...

I will now graduate to the motorcycle of MOUL...full blast...but will NEVER forget all the fun we had. I hope someone somewhere is able to save all the photos of the goofy and wondrous things we got up to...

HERE"S A BIG QUESTION: not very IC...but that Christmas Ki was the 'bee's knees'!!! Is there any hope that some of the /glow, /jump5, etc. commands will be in our future??? Now THOSE would be great prizes!

Unicorn

Hurrah...MOUL...here we come...bye and thanks for all the fish Until Uru !

************
But I think I just solved what the Relto island with shrine(sparklies) on it is for....it's a shrine to all the shard owners !!!

************

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:54 am 
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:cry: Ive been with the game since the begining and now seeing what I read and hear from the players,,and from Cyan..I believe the ending HAS been writen by Cyan itself with out support of all, the game will die again,saddlyJMHO


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:58 am 
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tkwiggins wrote:
Who at Cyan told you "there were no plans to shut down UU?"

What did they say, where did they say it, when did they say it, and to whom did they say it?

You're essentially charging Cyan with saying one thing and doing another.

Please provide proof, or retract your statement.

http://www.cyanworlds.com/cgi-bin/ubb-c ... 8;t=000800

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:05 am 
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i too am a little upset but this is what happens some time.

all i can say it has been a fun ride

i also think some thing of UU should be put in to live maybe the credits listing all the shard names and there admins or just the shard names

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:25 am 
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I am saddened to have to post about something like this. As a shard owner for almost two and a half years now, my family has spent thousands on the hardware, connection, upkeep, electricity and untold hours maintaining the shard, working on fixes and improvements. Though all of it, we have not asked for anything in return. We are happy to have provided for the community when Cyan had problems. We were a proof of concept, and we proved that it works. What you people enjoy in Live now is partially a consequence of our efforts in UU. Do you like your colored hair? ;)

With the opening of Live, we have the capability of picking up where Cyan left off. We support Cyan, and we have been a part of the rebirth of Live longer than most of you here. When Cyan needed us, the shard owners and admins were there for them, to help in any way that we can.

It is possible for the public to host their own auth and data servers, and it has been possible for quite some time now. We could now do so, under a new agreement with GameTap and Cyan, but only if they say so. Then they would have no burden to carry, and we could continue to be there for those who can't get in for whatever reason. I know people who are not going to be able to get Live because of no broadband, and others who are on fixed incomes or infirm and the costs are not possible for them to bear. They are now going to be left out in the cold, and they will be on the outside, looking in. How sad.

I have a small hope that something can be done to allow us to go on, and I hope that Cyan takes us into consideration. I know our time will come to shut down, but I thought it would when we knew we were no longer needed. In my opinion, we are still needed. If we were given the chance, we would like to be there for those who need us.

Live was shut down in February of 2004, and the community, through people like Maztec, was able to get Cyan to release UU to the public. We showed that if Live were around, people would go there. When Live was in the initial stages rebirth, Cyan asked us to help and we gladly did so. We have always been there when they needed us, no holds barred.

I do wish this was reciprocated, and finding this out like I did really was a blow. I really don't know what else to say.


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