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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:41 am 
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Gosh, us newcomers really didn't know much about all the hard work and years you early explorers worked while Cyan perfected their software. I've only been on this since Januray 22nd ... short timer. But I sure feel for you guys and gals... I don't know that whole background, not having been in the Until Uru, D'mala, and other privately worked support groups who helped Cyan, but I agree with most of your sentiments toot sweet...

Cyan should at least have made some provision for your hard labor over the years, they should have done this with a little more grace and diplomacy. Not published a flat statement on an open board. It seems they should have taken the time of honor each and every person who helped make them what they are in the first place.

Why? Without a fan base there is no Cyan. And if they want to lose the most loyal part of that fan base, it sure looks like that's what their doing. You guys are the hard core mainstays of this great gaming venture and you should be respected and honored by Cyan.

I hope Cyan will reconsider their short sighted vision which left you guys out in the cold. We all know they only have 40? employees, but they had probably a few hundred volunteers during the beta. Being a software engineer myself, I know that what they got from you was the freest QA testing crue they could ever have... if they'd had to pay a QA and End User company for testing they'd have paid millions over a period of years.

What it seems like is that the top people of Cyan need to climb down and visit the people once in a while, get to know their fan base one on one. Hold some kind of Myst gathering and bring in some of these find shard admins and others who helped on this project and honor them for helping them make this a worldwide success.

All of you deserve better.... I know one thing I sure appreciate all the hard work you put into beta testing this and making it such a great pleasure for the rest of us newbies....

I just wish I could do more for you.... What about a petition? Something people could sign and deliver to the President of Cyan? They do it for other things why not this?

I'm sorry to see some of you leave... I didn't get to meet all of you.. heck, the Cavern is a large place full of a lot of nooks and crannies with lots of great souls ... if your staying I hope to have the pleasure of meeting all you hard working souls...

I honor you... <<< applause for you guys and gals >>> 8)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:03 am 
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Hi earthwizard.....nice to meet you....

I think I can safely say that I've done as much as anyone to keep Uru alive. I have and always will appreciate the shard owners....but like I said I always saw UU as a gift and always viewed it as a kinda Limbo....waiting and hoping for UruLive to return. Yes the shard owners should be honored....but I can tell you with all honesty that there were weeks and weeks when I visited shards and no one was there....sorry to say...not even the shard owners...That's not to say that it was all shards but most shards.....There were a few major shards that tried to keep going and they know who they are. It's my opinion that some shards were only operating for their own personal entertainment.......Now is not the time to attack the hand that has fed us for so long.....Now is the time to do the honorable thing and step aside and let UruLive LIVE.....Paraphrasing JFK.....Ask not what Uru can do for you.....but ask what you can do for Uru.....

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:09 am 
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I live next a play park in Kommetjie, Cape Town, South Africa. For the first 9 years of my life we had a little Jungle Gym in the play park... it wasn't anything great but we LOVED it because it was *ours*.

One day we heard that a new fancy and much better Jungle Gym would be put up the following week. We thought AWESOME because we would have our old one which we loved and the new shiny one... and we were excited!

But the following week they came and without asking us they tore down our old but beloved Jungle Gym and replaced it with this gigantic and clearly much better thing!

But you know... it was the biggest disappointment. It just wasn't home no matter how hard we tried. We longed for the old and less fancy one.

I guess thats how I feel about Until Uru going away.

Now it doesn't mean I'm gonna stop playing Uru Live... I just wish we could have both.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:30 am 
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Yes, Miles, that's about how I feel too. Well put.

I urge all of us to do what Maztec suggested (and others!) - to gather all the memories together, and use Marck's list of shards and shard owners etc. A living, tangible memory of "Until Uru". :)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:54 am 
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For those people who are newer to the community, I'd like to point out that Cyan has made a lot of effort to be a part of the community, down to a personal level.

They have regularly opened their doors to fans, including the 100+ people who showed up in Spokane for Mysterium 2006. They had an open house where they spent a full Saturday letting fans wander around their building, as them questions, corner them in rooms to talk about their pet theories and more. Heck, when a bunch of fans pooled money for a pizza party for Cyan, they saved what was left over to use towards paying for lunch for all of the people who showed up to Cyan at Mysterium. Cyan has almost always stayed engaged with their fan-base.

But I digress.

Now, the shard admins have put out a lot of blood, sweat and tears (not to mention their own money) into the Shards. Those are sacrifices that I think everyone who plays the game should know about, as they were critical to getting to where we are today.

UU has been a key part of the survival of Uru. But not the only part. I think it's also important to remember the other parts of the community who have kept the home fires burning:
* forums who have kept the community going, even for those who couldn't play UU
* the meetups that have kept us coming back every year to meet face-to-face
* fan-created marketing campaigns that have tried to get to word out to new people
* fans who have continued to advocate Uru on adventure gaming and video game sites and forums
* fans who have worked tirelessly to provide provide parties, activities and events, in Cavern and out, so people have something to do and look forward to

There's a lot that a lot of different people have done for this community, for Uru and for Cyan.

I think it's important to remember what the goal of this has always been, for us and for Cyan: Uru. And that's all that we are all working for, the best we can. Would the ideal thing be that we could have both Until Uru and Uru Live? Yes. But I have to agree with SuperGram - we need to focus on the future of the Uru.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:58 am 
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Yes, I so wish that this had been handled a bit more, ummm, diplomatically. It may have been a bit easier to handle, and this was just abrupt. That is about all I can say about that.

Regarding migrating UU members to Live, every single person in our small part of the UU community that can has migrated to Live now. We have a handful of members (less than twenty) who can not afford broadband or Live/GameTap due to fixed incomes or just being poor. Others do not have access to it from their country, and will be left out in the cold. Still others can not get broadband in their area. All in all, it is a handful of people. I have posted a poll at our forum (Until Uru Slacker's Shard Forum Poll) that asks these questions. I would like to know what your situation is if you could be kind enough to do so. The info may be helpful to us.

We have been 'pimping' Live to every warm body that we can, and I would have liked to have seen advertising for GameTap/Live on our shards, even making our client pages link to here or GameTap and putting a plug in for them to drum up more business for them via the Until Uru shards. Putting advertisements in on the right hood imagers or in any way that Cyan could come up with, all with the idea of driving support for MO:UL.

Maybe a name change to Myst Online Demo or something like that. Whatever it takes to further assist Cyan and Turner in this venture. After all, we have been there for them up to now, I see no reason for that to change. Closing UU will not increase traffic at GameTap, and I think my poll will reflect this.

Whenever Live went down (recent history), people would show up at our shard, thankful at least for a place to get in and visit. And as soon as Live was back up, they went right back into Live. We have been getting steady traffic, and the overseas people have migrated to our shard recently due to the drop off at D'mala. We do not speak their language, but they speak Uru, and that has been enough for them (and us).

I wish we were viewed as an asset, and not as a liability. We can be a free view into the world of MO:UL, and it could be a place to get people interested in the game. Or as a stop point until they have MO:UL available in their country or their financial situation changes. Until Uru has been a godsend for those who are not fortunate enough to be in Live, and they are very sad to see this happening. Some will not be able to get in Live, so they are already saying good bye to the community. I never thought I would see this happen.

No matter what, I support Cyan. There is nothing more to say about that. I have been here for them in the dark days, and I will remain. As will my family. We helped to breathe life back into Live, and we would never turn our back on it. I just wish there was a way for us to pick up the auth/data servers ourselves and to continue to drum up business for MO:UL.

As I said before, I expected that eventually we would no longer serve a purpose and would shut down on our own. I can't help but feel that this is a shortsighted move in that we are still serving a purpose. Closing us will not increase MO:UL membership, IMO. Our members have joined Live if they already could, and the few left are the unfortunate in our community, for one reason or another. The goodwill that has been hown to these people has encouraged then to tell others about Live, and they are about the best advertising a company can ask for. Free.

We never intended to be Live, only what we can be. We are glad to see Live return, and I see no reason that we could not have been used in a positive way to drum up further business for Cyan and GameTap. Maybe give us the Turner product t-shirts to wear on the shard, post advertising in our hoods and in the city and so on. The possibilities are there, they only have to be put into action.

Did I mention FREE advertising for Live? In most businesses, that is considered the best advertising there is out there.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:35 am 
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well I fully support what is happening.

Cyan have proven in the past and always continue to prove to us that they do care, about every one of us. But they can not be expected to constantly bend over backwards to keep every one of us happy. They are a business and as such, must realise their own interests. They have to do what is best for Uru Live and for Cyan, to make the business thrives so that the community can too.

True, some people will be left out for a short while, but that time will be as short as possible. Gametap will rule the entire world in no-time ;)

We are all eternally grateful to the UU shard owners and admins - you guys kept this community together at our darkest time :) I missed out on Prologue times, and only discovered this community in UU years, so a heartfelt Thank You to those of you who carried this community through the "Until" part.

But Until Uru was ust that. Until. A stepping stone. A place for us to remain a community Until Uru - and now is the time for UruLive to be given the limelight and to SHINE

and SHINE it will


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:47 am 
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Those who forget their past, are doomed to repeat it.

But then again if when hold on to the past to tightly we will not move forward.

I think that we need a memorial in Uru Live to remeber Until Uru. I will not go as far to say to keep the shards open. We should honor the memory of until uru. if we bury it we might end up back where we started.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:16 pm 
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It is much like when a baby is born.

You do not save the "waters" and throw the baby away. :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:11 pm 
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I think some people seem to be missing the point here. This is not about Live instead of UU, or holding onto the past. Those of us that are capable of getting into Live are already in and have been so from the first opportunity. Who wouldn’t want to be in Live with all its new content? I’m sure Shard owners and admins are not bothered by getting any recognition for helping to bring URU back either.

No, this is about a small part of our community that has no choice in the matter, for them it is UU or nothing. Is everyone ok with the idea of them having nothing?? From what I’ve read here it sounds like those who are in, don’t care about others who are not so fortunate.

For a few, UU is all they are capable of getting right now, they may be able to upgrade their lines later and join the rest of us in Live then. But for now this is all they have, would anyone deny them a chance of staying in contact with our community?

Why can't UU be kept to act as a holding area for those who are still working on trying to get into Live.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:14 pm 
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Wow. I've seen a lot of emotions here.

....If your life choices prevent you from making it to Live, suck it up and live with those choices.

...Maybe the rules can be bent.

...Don't go up against Turner's legal department, they will bury you.

...Cyan has abandoned those unfortunate souls who cannot make it into Live

...Cyan cares about each and every person in URU



Maybe there's some truth in all of these points, or maybe not. (I'm not sure that bending the rules of Turner's legal department, waiting poised to bury you, is very good advice, but who knows.)

What I do know is that it is more "the people" than "the puzzles". It has been more "the gathering" than "the game". I have made numerous friends who, at least at this time, will not be able to participate in URU Live for different reasons. I will not lose contact with these people, because they are my family, but I will lose a part of my relationship with them, because the world in which we met and lived can no longer accomodate them. This saddens me greatly.

I will plead ignorance when it comes to guessing how much effort Until Uru has been to Cyan while they revived Live, but obviously it was managable, and with all of the desire to keep UU alive, both from folks willing to continue UU from an admin perspective, and those who's only hope of continuing with their famlies is the continuance of UU, it seems to me that something could be worked out.

Everyone has talked about the "punch in the gut" that was felt in 2003 when Prologue ended. I know this feeling as well as anyone, as I was there too. Let's not forget the people who are feeling this now because at this point their future does not extend past this weekend. It is my deepest hope that Cyan and Turner will find a way.... for these folks as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:40 pm 
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Jakah wrote:
No, this is about a small part of our community that has no choice in the matter, for them it is UU or nothing.


No. This not just about a small part of the community. It's about everyone, because this decision (or a decision NOT to close UU) would affect everyone.

Quote:
Is everyone ok with the idea of them having nothing??


When the choices I have are:

1. Shutting down UU and me playing Uru Live while an infintesimal few can't.
2. Allow those infintesimal few to play UU until Uru Live dies again, taking it away from all of us (and thereby shutting down UU as well).

I'll choose shutting down UU any day of the week. This is about survival, folks. Either UU goes, or Uru AND UU goes. It's a legal matter. It's a financial matter. And when the choice is one, or nothing, I choose one.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:58 pm 
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Moleculor, I am curious as to how you know so much about Cyan's or Gametap's personal business situation?

I do not recall reading anything as to the reason they decided what they announced but perhaps I may have missed it. Did they share their information publically or did they tell you that information privately since you speak with such authority on the reason behind this decison?

Again, if it is the cost of the server to run UU that they are concerned over, I am willing to pitch in and help pay them to keep it going until they can get the other countries legal issues cleared up so these people can get in too. Otherwise, they will have nothing while you are enjoying yourself in live.

I am very happy you are not having this problem and are able to get in.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:59 pm 
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I'll be sorry to see Until URU go. Tapestry was my home, so in one sense I have already mourned its passing. Helpful or otherwise, Until URU was only meant to be temporary - Until URU. Abrupt as this announcement is, it really shouldn't have come as a surprise. Live is almost upon us.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:27 pm 
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Moleculor, do you really think that this is a choice between having live or not?? UU being around is not going to affect Live in any way with so few people involved. I understand how people feel about what happened the first time around and they're nervous of the future.

This is not about saving Live, this is about trying to keep everyone together instead of just looking out for those who can pass the entrance criteria. UU will have no impact on Lives chances, in fact I would argue that it could generate customers. It could act as a holding area for folks waiting to upgrade, encouraging them to get into Live at the earliest opportunity.

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